Excessive fitness training

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No laps:

https://www.nfhs.org/articles/is-long-distance-running-really-important-in-soccer-training/

One of the suggested exercises in this article is, wait for it, running laps (for time) on a track. One to two laps around a track does not equal "long distance" by the way. This article is suggesting that an athlete needs to be able to do two laps around the track (1/2 mile) in 3:15 minutes. The better boys should be able to do this in MS.

[Anonymous]

If you have a kid on a top travel team, the game itself demands a certain level of fitness and I don't think you can get around that. The bar depends on the level of play.

The questions should be more how a kid develops fitness in a safe, healthy way given their developing body, how they learn to do conditioning in a way that prevents injuries and increases fitness, how they learn the mental component to being fit. There will be variation amongst gender (girls are more susceptible to some injuries) and age (growth spurts, ages have certain issues). There are also variations amongst kids - some girls are more prone to ACL injuries, some kids are prone to other injuries - hip, ankle. We are extremely fortunate to be in an area that has a lot of resources to help parents and kids if you are serious. There are also some really great on-line resources that really detail safe fitness for high level soccer, some targeted for girls, backed with a lot of science, data, articles, etc. FitSoccer Queen is a good resource.

We have a coach that wants the team to have high fitness, is naturally evident in the level of play, but realizes you have to ramp up and more slowly ramp up post covid. He also defers the fitness and conditioning to outside of practice with no set "plan" but some high level outcomes he would like the kids to achieve; I really appreciate that as it allows me to have a greater influence on the "how" my child achieves fitness levels .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No laps:

https://www.nfhs.org/articles/is-long-distance-running-really-important-in-soccer-training/

Thanks. About the only useful post in this thread. One of the described routines is effectively a subset of the Man U. test. Running laps is ok, but running lots of laps at the same (slower) pace will tune your body to be slower. A good team routine is putting two lines in parallel and running laps at a slow pace, then when coach blows whistle the two at the back of the line sprint to the front ... and repeat. Combines slow recovery jogging with high intensity sprinting and makes players work together to form a tight line. I also use shuttle runs but with a ball and alternating feet on each leg of the shuttle. Combines fitness with ball skill at speed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you have a kid on a top travel team, the game itself demands a certain level of fitness and I don't think you can get around that. The bar depends on the level of play.

The questions should be more how a kid develops fitness in a safe, healthy way given their developing body, how they learn to do conditioning in a way that prevents injuries and increases fitness, how they learn the mental component to being fit. There will be variation amongst gender (girls are more susceptible to some injuries) and age (growth spurts, ages have certain issues). There are also variations amongst kids - some girls are more prone to ACL injuries, some kids are prone to other injuries - hip, ankle. We are extremely fortunate to be in an area that has a lot of resources to help parents and kids if you are serious. There are also some really great on-line resources that really detail safe fitness for high level soccer, some targeted for girls, backed with a lot of science, data, articles, etc. FitSoccer Queen is a good resource.

We have a coach that wants the team to have high fitness, is naturally evident in the level of play, but realizes you have to ramp up and more slowly ramp up post covid. He also defers the fitness and conditioning to outside of practice with no set "plan" but some high level outcomes he would like the kids to achieve; I really appreciate that as it allows me to have a greater influence on the "how" my child achieves fitness levels .

I've followed FitSoccerQueen for a long time now. She's great. I believe she is the trainer with Baltimore Celtic. Do you subscribe to her year long fitness plan for soccer players? If so, how much did that cost?

I would like the club to have a more active role in the physical and mental development because I don't know what I don't know. Kids train 3 days a week plus a game in season with the club. How much additional fitness, strength training, etc do I fit in there while still getting the proper rest and recovery? And the answer to this question is different in season and out of season. What I would love to see is what the Pittsburgh Riverhounds do (and maybe other clubs...like FitSoccerQueen at Celtic), but follow Houndstrength on Twitter or wherever. You see these young players doing it all under the guidance of professionals (back squats, single legs squats, plyos, speed, etc). I'm sure it's not cheap. I also see a lot of girls from multiple clubs working with Peak Performance in Loudoun. What I don't know is...do these performance trainers work with the club to provide the right training or do they just have all the kids who randomly sign up do the same exercises and then the kids move along after a week long camp. My club pays zero attention to this stuff. It's closer to what OP doesn't want to see but my kid stays fit year round and I have her strength train, etc at home...but I'm not a pro. I just do what I think is right from what I learn online.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have a kid on a top travel team, the game itself demands a certain level of fitness and I don't think you can get around that. The bar depends on the level of play.

The questions should be more how a kid develops fitness in a safe, healthy way given their developing body, how they learn to do conditioning in a way that prevents injuries and increases fitness, how they learn the mental component to being fit. There will be variation amongst gender (girls are more susceptible to some injuries) and age (growth spurts, ages have certain issues). There are also variations amongst kids - some girls are more prone to ACL injuries, some kids are prone to other injuries - hip, ankle. We are extremely fortunate to be in an area that has a lot of resources to help parents and kids if you are serious. There are also some really great on-line resources that really detail safe fitness for high level soccer, some targeted for girls, backed with a lot of science, data, articles, etc. FitSoccer Queen is a good resource.

We have a coach that wants the team to have high fitness, is naturally evident in the level of play, but realizes you have to ramp up and more slowly ramp up post covid. He also defers the fitness and conditioning to outside of practice with no set "plan" but some high level outcomes he would like the kids to achieve; I really appreciate that as it allows me to have a greater influence on the "how" my child achieves fitness levels .

I've followed FitSoccerQueen for a long time now. She's great. I believe she is the trainer with Baltimore Celtic. Do you subscribe to her year long fitness plan for soccer players? If so, how much did that cost?

I would like the club to have a more active role in the physical and mental development because I don't know what I don't know. Kids train 3 days a week plus a game in season with the club. How much additional fitness, strength training, etc do I fit in there while still getting the proper rest and recovery? And the answer to this question is different in season and out of season. What I would love to see is what the Pittsburgh Riverhounds do (and maybe other clubs...like FitSoccerQueen at Celtic), but follow Houndstrength on Twitter or wherever. You see these young players doing it all under the guidance of professionals (back squats, single legs squats, plyos, speed, etc). I'm sure it's not cheap. I also see a lot of girls from multiple clubs working with Peak Performance in Loudoun. What I don't know is...do these performance trainers work with the club to provide the right training or do they just have all the kids who randomly sign up do the same exercises and then the kids move along after a week long camp. My club pays zero attention to this stuff. It's closer to what OP doesn't want to see but my kid stays fit year round and I have her strength train, etc at home...but I'm not a pro. I just do what I think is right from what I learn online.

how old is your kid? If they're young, playing sports year round, especially if they play multiple sports should get and keep them in shape. If they're older, they can easily look up and do training plans if they're inclined. If they're not inclined, forcing speed training and strength training on top on normal soccer training seems like a recipe for burnout

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have a kid on a top travel team, the game itself demands a certain level of fitness and I don't think you can get around that. The bar depends on the level of play.

The questions should be more how a kid develops fitness in a safe, healthy way given their developing body, how they learn to do conditioning in a way that prevents injuries and increases fitness, how they learn the mental component to being fit. There will be variation amongst gender (girls are more susceptible to some injuries) and age (growth spurts, ages have certain issues). There are also variations amongst kids - some girls are more prone to ACL injuries, some kids are prone to other injuries - hip, ankle. We are extremely fortunate to be in an area that has a lot of resources to help parents and kids if you are serious. There are also some really great on-line resources that really detail safe fitness for high level soccer, some targeted for girls, backed with a lot of science, data, articles, etc. FitSoccer Queen is a good resource.

We have a coach that wants the team to have high fitness, is naturally evident in the level of play, but realizes you have to ramp up and more slowly ramp up post covid. He also defers the fitness and conditioning to outside of practice with no set "plan" but some high level outcomes he would like the kids to achieve; I really appreciate that as it allows me to have a greater influence on the "how" my child achieves fitness levels .

I've followed FitSoccerQueen for a long time now. She's great. I believe she is the trainer with Baltimore Celtic. Do you subscribe to her year long fitness plan for soccer players? If so, how much did that cost?

I would like the club to have a more active role in the physical and mental development because I don't know what I don't know. Kids train 3 days a week plus a game in season with the club. How much additional fitness, strength training, etc do I fit in there while still getting the proper rest and recovery? And the answer to this question is different in season and out of season. What I would love to see is what the Pittsburgh Riverhounds do (and maybe other clubs...like FitSoccerQueen at Celtic), but follow Houndstrength on Twitter or wherever. You see these young players doing it all under the guidance of professionals (back squats, single legs squats, plyos, speed, etc). I'm sure it's not cheap. I also see a lot of girls from multiple clubs working with Peak Performance in Loudoun. What I don't know is...do these performance trainers work with the club to provide the right training or do they just have all the kids who randomly sign up do the same exercises and then the kids move along after a week long camp. My club pays zero attention to this stuff. It's closer to what OP doesn't want to see but my kid stays fit year round and I have her strength train, etc at home...but I'm not a pro. I just do what I think is right from what I learn online.

So I have had 4 kids in serious sports and have learned a lot the hard way, but fortunate to work with some of the best PT / ortho in the area. The challenge with a lot of these performance shops - is you have some of the "Trainers" doing something that may not be great for your kid specifically (we have been warned multiple times on that) and occasionally, wrong form - inappropriate for age, , etc. A lot of kids don't like it - especially depending on the trainer. Yes, it may be better than randomly looking up a plan - but sometimes not as much as you expect. I don't know Peak Performance specific and could be good. Houndstrength, which i have followed a bit - seems maybe a bit much.

Over the years, I have developed a group of trainers that my kids work that teach them the right technique that they can do things more on their own. So its not a long term extra burden and we do it more in the summer, when more time. I may officially subscribe to Fitsoccer plan given the age of my soccer player now and for some guidance. I like that her science & research seems the most robust for girls and more aligned with what I have learned from some of the best PT. I like her holistic approach too - and per your point, understanding soccer in and out of season, rest balance, etc.

My kids played multiple sports and did all the things to seemingly keep them healthy - we just weren't that lucky with certain genetics. A lot of people have kids that doing those things maybe enough.

[Anonymous]

Perhaps this is an archaic approach, but my brother played at Princeton under Bob Bradley and they NEVER did fitness. All they did was scrimmage. Mostly full field scrimmages. And they made the final 4.

I played in college at a high level and, again perhaps this is archaic because the game has changed a lot since the early 2000s, but I got good by playing a lot. Pickup games mostly. I took up road races after college and did a ton of fitness and it made me slower and less agile. When i would play in the occasional pickup game I couldn't be as explosive or quick footed as i wanted to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps this is an archaic approach, but my brother played at Princeton under Bob Bradley and they NEVER did fitness. All they did was scrimmage. Mostly full field scrimmages. And they made the final 4.

I played in college at a high level and, again perhaps this is archaic because the game has changed a lot since the early 2000s, but I got good by playing a lot. Pickup games mostly. I took up road races after college and did a ton of fitness and it made me slower and less agile. When i would play in the occasional pickup game I couldn't be as explosive or quick footed as i wanted to.

I'm not saying this is wrong but I think...as you have stated...lots have changed since then...especially in regards to fitness and strength training. For example, back then, people thought lifting weights too early stunted growth or made them bulky and clumsy. Also, we all know that kids don't get the chances to "just play" like we used to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps this is an archaic approach, but my brother played at Princeton under Bob Bradley and they NEVER did fitness. All they did was scrimmage. Mostly full field scrimmages. And they made the final 4.

I played in college at a high level and, again perhaps this is archaic because the game has changed a lot since the early 2000s, but I got good by playing a lot. Pickup games mostly. I took up road races after college and did a ton of fitness and it made me slower and less agile. When i would play in the occasional pickup game I couldn't be as explosive or quick footed as i wanted to.

I'm not saying this is wrong but I think...as you have stated...lots have changed since then...especially in regards to fitness and strength training. For example, back then, people thought lifting weights too early stunted growth or made them bulky and clumsy. Also, we all know that kids don't get the chances to "just play" like we used to.

True. But I agree with the sentiments other PPs up thread have stated that excessive fitness training is detrimental. I’ll point to someone like Christian Pulisic, who got very, very good at a young age by just playing. A lot.

[Anonymous]

Your genes dictate the limitations of your ability to be an athlete. So regardless, you will have a ceiling and people have different levels. Strength, power, and speed are all different and useful in soccer depending on you, your position, the way you play. Being explosive is probably the most important thing in soccer, and most sports, as it creates separation.

[Anonymous]

smart coaches use games and ball work to push endurance. players can work their stamina while simultaneously getting meaningful touches on the ball. bielsa's players call it 'death ball'
i think...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:smart coaches use games and ball work to push endurance. players can work their stamina while simultaneously getting meaningful touches on the ball. bielsa's players call it 'death ball'
i think...

"Excessive fitness training" and "death ball"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps this is an archaic approach, but my brother played at Princeton under Bob Bradley and they NEVER did fitness. All they did was scrimmage. Mostly full field scrimmages. And they made the final 4.

I played in college at a high level and, again perhaps this is archaic because the game has changed a lot since the early 2000s, but I got good by playing a lot. Pickup games mostly. I took up road races after college and did a ton of fitness and it made me slower and less agile. When i would play in the occasional pickup game I couldn't be as explosive or quick footed as i wanted to.

Thinking has changed a lot about strength and fitness training since the early 90's. I wouldn't even consider a princeton men's soccer team from the early 90's to be elite athletes. Maybe their 1 or 2 best guys, maybe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps this is an archaic approach, but my brother played at Princeton under Bob Bradley and they NEVER did fitness. All they did was scrimmage. Mostly full field scrimmages. And they made the final 4.

I played in college at a high level and, again perhaps this is archaic because the game has changed a lot since the early 2000s, but I got good by playing a lot. Pickup games mostly. I took up road races after college and did a ton of fitness and it made me slower and less agile. When i would play in the occasional pickup game I couldn't be as explosive or quick footed as i wanted to.

I'm not saying this is wrong but I think...as you have stated...lots have changed since then...especially in regards to fitness and strength training. For example, back then, people thought lifting weights too early stunted growth or made them bulky and clumsy. Also, we all know that kids don't get the chances to "just play" like we used to.

True. But I agree with the sentiments other PPs up thread have stated that excessive fitness training is detrimental. I’ll point to someone like Christian Pulisic, who got very, very good at a young age by just playing. A lot.

sure...

[Anonymous]

As a baseline, a 16+ year old elite-level field player should be able to run 6 to 10 miles easily. All the other stuff — sprinting, agility, comfort with the ball — gets built on top of that baseline endurance necessary to last 90 minutes in a game. Watch the last 15 minutes of any game at U16 or older. The team whose fitness isn’t up to par loses.