Alexandria Bike Lobby wins again

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You are still incorrect. It is 100% legal to honk at someone blowing through a stop. It is a reasonable action to honk to warn them and others of their dangerous act. You can pretend otherwise and worry about the poor feelings of the sacred biker. That still will not make it illegal to honk at someone running a stop sign.

Seriously, dude, it's not hard to distinguish between honking at someone as a warning and honking at someone to scare the crap out of them.

Don't be a jerk on the road. That applies to all road users, but especially to the ones who are operating two-ton (or three-ton) motor vehicles of the kind that regularly kill people. Have you been to any memorial services for people who were on a bike when they were killed by a driver? I have. Don't be a jerk on the road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If cyclists would simply do THREE things, I would happily cede them a dedicated lane everywhere:

1) stop at red lights and wait until green to proceed, just like cars do.

2) stop at stop signs.

3) don’t shoal through traffic (that’s where traffic is temporarily caught behind a slow biker, gets an opportunity to pass the biker, does so, and then at the next red light, the biker weaves through the line of stopped cars to the front of the line, and runs the red light, forcing everyone formerly trapped behind them to be trapped yet again, over and over. This has the effect of slowing ALL traffic on the road down to the speed of the biker.)

If they’d quit doing those three things, people would stop hating them.

Honk at them. Every time. Scares the crap out of them but gets their attention.

Honking like at is illegal. So you are advocating for people to do illegal things.

Brilliant.

Nope. It is 100% legal to honk at someone as a reasonable warning. Running a stop sign and endangering other will 100% qualify as a reasonable warning.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter10/section46.2-1060/

No. Because (1) don't be a jerk and (2) doing things to scare the crap out of people is not a reasonable warning.

It shall further be unlawful for any person at any time to use a horn otherwise than as a reasonable warning or to make any unnecessary or unreasonably loud or harsh sound by means of a horn or other warning device.

You are still incorrect. It is 100% legal to honk at someone blowing through a stop. It is a reasonable action to honk to warn them and others of their dangerous act. You can pretend otherwise and worry about the poor feelings of the sacred biker. That still will not make it illegal to honk at someone running a stop sign.

If you were driving EB, say, with the right of way, and were about to hit a NB cyclist starting to run the stop sign, it might be legal to honk at them.

If you are a NB driver, and see a NB cyclist about to start running a stop sign, that would not be warning and would not be legal.

If you were an EB driver, and were stopped, and there was no danger of a collision with say, a NB cyclist, but you were just honking because you saw them violating the law, that would certainly not be legal. In that case their illegal act is not actually dangerous.

If you disagree, try driving at 25MPH in a 25MPH zone, and honking every time a car passes you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

so it this t shirt

https://mobile.twitter.com/WABADC/status/1173637518383878150/photo/1

No it's this one: https://cottonbureau.com/products/the-all-powerful-bicycle-lobby#/1933563/tee-men-standard-tee-vintage-black-tri-blend-s

It says "Let us ban cars" in Latin, kind of.

sorry meant to type "so is this t -shirt"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are still incorrect. It is 100% legal to honk at someone blowing through a stop. It is a reasonable action to honk to warn them and others of their dangerous act. You can pretend otherwise and worry about the poor feelings of the sacred biker. That still will not make it illegal to honk at someone running a stop sign.

Seriously, dude, it's not hard to distinguish between honking at someone as a warning and honking at someone to scare the crap out of them.

Don't be a jerk on the road. That applies to all road users, but especially to the ones who are operating two-ton (or three-ton) motor vehicles of the kind that regularly kill people. Have you been to any memorial services for people who were on a bike when they were killed by a driver? I have. Don't be a jerk on the road.

I suspect the person you are responding to is mostly a jerk online.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If cyclists would simply do THREE things, I would happily cede them a dedicated lane everywhere:

1) stop at red lights and wait until green to proceed, just like cars do.

2) stop at stop signs.

3) don’t shoal through traffic (that’s where traffic is temporarily caught behind a slow biker, gets an opportunity to pass the biker, does so, and then at the next red light, the biker weaves through the line of stopped cars to the front of the line, and runs the red light, forcing everyone formerly trapped behind them to be trapped yet again, over and over. This has the effect of slowing ALL traffic on the road down to the speed of the biker.)

If they’d quit doing those three things, people would stop hating them.

Honk at them. Every time. Scares the crap out of them but gets their attention.

Honking like at is illegal. So you are advocating for people to do illegal things.

Brilliant.

Nope. It is 100% legal to honk at someone as a reasonable warning. Running a stop sign and endangering other will 100% qualify as a reasonable warning.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter10/section46.2-1060/

No. Because (1) don't be a jerk and (2) doing things to scare the crap out of people is not a reasonable warning.

It shall further be unlawful for any person at any time to use a horn otherwise than as a reasonable warning or to make any unnecessary or unreasonably loud or harsh sound by means of a horn or other warning device.

You are still incorrect. It is 100% legal to honk at someone blowing through a stop. It is a reasonable action to honk to warn them and others of their dangerous act. You can pretend otherwise and worry about the poor feelings of the sacred biker. That still will not make it illegal to honk at someone running a stop sign.

If you were driving EB, say, with the right of way, and were about to hit a NB cyclist starting to run the stop sign, it might be legal to honk at them.

If you are a NB driver, and see a NB cyclist about to start running a stop sign, that would not be warning and would not be legal.

If you were an EB driver, and were stopped, and there was no danger of a collision with say, a NB cyclist, but you were just honking because you saw them violating the law, that would certainly not be legal. In that case their illegal act is not actually dangerous.

If you disagree, try driving at 25MPH in a 25MPH zone, and honking every time a car passes you.

Wow you have a lot of free time.

[Anonymous]

Justin is a little bitch.

[Anonymous]

Most drivers are too stupid to understand this because they think the throughput on a road is simply a function of how many lanes you have but reducing a travel lane doesn't necessarily reduce the carrying capacity of a road or may only reduce it very slightly during periods of peak travel.

The reason for this is that most congestion and delays happen at intersections because of turning cars and multi leg traffic signals.

On Seminary Road there are some intersections with turn lanes that come from the left lane which reduces traffic to one through lane and there are some wider intersections with left and right turn lanes that also reduce the road to one through lane.

But the proposal for Seminary basically creates a continous center turn lane while currently at a lot of intersections the turn lanes don't occupy the same channel in the road.

One of the advantages of this is you create one smooth flowing lane and eliminate the lane jumping around queuing in what used to be mixed turn/through lane and that lane jumping actually reduces travel speeds and causes accidents.

Sure travel will likely be a bit slower in sections of open road but it really doesn't matter because it is the average speed, not the top speed, that determines how fast people get through an area or the total number of cars you can move through a corridor.

What is being proposed here has been done successfully in lots of other places with minimal impacts on traffic and we also know that improvements in the built environment and particularly protected bike lanes greatly increase biking and walking which help to get people out of their cars and reducing inefficient driving is actually the best way to reduce traffic congestion.

Seminary is not even congested outside of rush hour.

There is a good write up including lots of links to studies of similar road diets here:

https://ggwash.org/view/72330/bike-walk-drive-will-alexandria-virginia-make-seminary-road-a-complete-street

Also please let me know how to contribute to the "bike lobby" - I'd love to support it if someone can point the way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Also please let me know how to contribute to the "bike lobby" - I'd love to support it if someone can point the way.

WABA isn't the "bike lobby," but they do good work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most drivers are too stupid to understand this because they think the throughput on a road is simply a function of how many lanes you have but reducing a travel lane doesn't necessarily reduce the carrying capacity of a road or may only reduce it very slightly during periods of peak travel.

The reason for this is that most congestion and delays happen at intersections because of turning cars and multi leg traffic signals.

On Seminary Road there are some intersections with turn lanes that come from the left lane which reduces traffic to one through lane and there are some wider intersections with left and right turn lanes that also reduce the road to one through lane.

But the proposal for Seminary basically creates a continous center turn lane while currently at a lot of intersections the turn lanes don't occupy the same channel in the road.

One of the advantages of this is you create one smooth flowing lane and eliminate the lane jumping around queuing in what used to be mixed turn/through lane and that lane jumping actually reduces travel speeds and causes accidents.

Sure travel will likely be a bit slower in sections of open road but it really doesn't matter because it is the average speed, not the top speed, that determines how fast people get through an area or the total number of cars you can move through a corridor.

What is being proposed here has been done successfully in lots of other places with minimal impacts on traffic and we also know that improvements in the built environment and particularly protected bike lanes greatly increase biking and walking which help to get people out of their cars and reducing inefficient driving is actually the best way to reduce traffic congestion.

Seminary is not even congested outside of rush hour.

There is a good write up including lots of links to studies of similar road diets here:

https://ggwash.org/view/72330/bike-walk-drive-will-alexandria-virginia-make-seminary-road-a-complete-street

Also please let me know how to contribute to the "bike lobby" - I'd love to support it if someone can point the way.

Get out of here with your calm, rationale post filled with data!
Seriously, though, thanks for posting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Also please let me know how to contribute to the "bike lobby" - I'd love to support it if someone can point the way.

WABA isn't the "bike lobby," but they do good work.

“At Lime, we care deeply about the networks and infrastructure needed to keep bicyclists, scooter riders and pedestrians safe from cars. Our friends at Alexandria Bicycle & Pedestrian Advisory Committee need your voice to make Seminary Road (east of N. Howard St.) safer for pedestrians and bicyclists. Send a message to Mayor Wilson and City Council in support of bringing center left turn lanes, pedestrian refuge islands, and bike lanes to Seminary Road.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If cyclists would simply do THREE things, I would happily cede them a dedicated lane everywhere:

1) stop at red lights and wait until green to proceed, just like cars do.

2) stop at stop signs.

3) don’t shoal through traffic (that’s where traffic is temporarily caught behind a slow biker, gets an opportunity to pass the biker, does so, and then at the next red light, the biker weaves through the line of stopped cars to the front of the line, and runs the red light, forcing everyone formerly trapped behind them to be trapped yet again, over and over. This has the effect of slowing ALL traffic on the road down to the speed of the biker.)


If they’d quit doing those three things, people would stop hating them.

#1 and 2 are terrifying and the main cause of bike related accidents and near misses. #3 is why I hate street bikers too. If you are going to act like a car, then sit in your spot at the back of the line like all the other cars; do not make me pass you 15 times along one road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If cyclists would simply do THREE things, I would happily cede them a dedicated lane everywhere:

1) stop at red lights and wait until green to proceed, just like cars do.

2) stop at stop signs.

3) don’t shoal through traffic (that’s where traffic is temporarily caught behind a slow biker, gets an opportunity to pass the biker, does so, and then at the next red light, the biker weaves through the line of stopped cars to the front of the line, and runs the red light, forcing everyone formerly trapped behind them to be trapped yet again, over and over. This has the effect of slowing ALL traffic on the road down to the speed of the biker.)


If they’d quit doing those three things, people would stop hating them.

#1 and 2 are terrifying and the main cause of bike related accidents and near misses. #3 is why I hate street bikers too. If you are going to act like a car, then sit in your spot at the back of the line like all the other cars; do not make me pass you 15 times along one road.

No, they're not. Really. The data shows that your assertion is factually incorrect.

And people on bikes do not, and should not be expected to, act as though they're driving in a car. Bikes are bikes; cars are cars. If you want me to line up in line with all of the other cars, then you're going to be following me all the way to wherever you're going. Do you want that? Probably not.

Can we talk about drivers running red lights, now? Because that actually is very dangerous, and it happens all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Also please let me know how to contribute to the "bike lobby" - I'd love to support it if someone can point the way.

WABA isn't the "bike lobby," but they do good work.

“At Lime, we care deeply about the networks and infrastructure needed to keep bicyclists, scooter riders and pedestrians safe from cars. Our friends at Alexandria Bicycle & Pedestrian Advisory Committee need your voice to make Seminary Road (east of N. Howard St.) safer for pedestrians and bicyclists. Send a message to Mayor Wilson and City Council in support of bringing center left turn lanes, pedestrian refuge islands, and bike lanes to Seminary Road.”

Lime isn't "the bike lobby" either. But it stands to reason that a company that rents bikes is interested in good, safe facilities for people who are biking.

Is this a good place to point out that roads with protected bike facilities are safer for EVERYBODY? Including people in cars.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/05/29/protect-yourself-separated-bike-lanes-means-safer-streets-study-says/

[Anonymous]

I'd have more compassion for cyclists if they treated pedestrians respectfully - stop for them in crosswalks, don't bike like maniacs on trails and "thread the needle." Slow down and share the trails.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd have more compassion for cyclists if they treated pedestrians respectfully - stop for them in crosswalks, don't bike like maniacs on trails and "thread the needle." Slow down and share the trails.

PP, some people are just transportation jerks. They're jerks when they're driving, they're jerks when they're on bikes, they're jerks when they're walking. That's not an argument against good bicycle infrastructure. It's an argument against being a transportation jerk.

What's more, the more good bicycle infrastructure we have, the less people on bikes have to share facilities with people on foot (as well as with people in cars). I am out in the exurbs, and I ride on the sidewalk a lot, because it's too dangerous to ride in the road. When I ride on the sidewalk, I always keep in mind that the pedestrian has the right of way. But I'd prefer not to have to ride on the sidewalk in the first place.