Baltimore Sun article about Howard County rezoning
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Anonymous
Agree. Some people spend a lot of money just to get here in Montgomery County. I am not talking about people who pay for W schools zones. I am talking about people who nickel and dimed their way into an expensive county and bought a starter home. Now their equity just shot down 50K and there is no way they could sell if they wanted to. It is a huge financial loss for the lower and middle class. Even if there isn't a lose of equity, I also think it has to do with moving away from a neighborhood school. Bussing kids in an overcrowded, traffic-filled county, past 2-4 other schools to their destination is too much. Not only do younger K students or even high school kids have to get up another 30+min earlier for this type of thing, but it also does not make a very cohesive environment. You can't play on school sport teams because they aren't local anymore. Much easier to play on a school team near you. PTA and events decrease because they have a speckled boundary spots all over and the families don't feel like driving far if they are the odd neighborhood out. Girl Scouts and Cub scouts made up of local boundaries are now more chopped up. Neighborhoods that grew up together and share events, swim clubs, parks/playgrounds are now going to 2-3 different schools. |
Anonymous
Agreed. These are all valid points, and it’s irritating when the BOE (at least in MCPS) is incredibly dismissive to those concerns. And labels anyone who brings them up as an automatic xenophobic. |
Anonymous
What 2-4 other schools are passed on the route between RH and WL? |
Anonymous
I don't know about Howard County, but in MCPS's case, "Bussing kids in an overcrowded, traffic-filled county, past 2-4 other schools to their destination" is not what's being proposed or analyzed. |
Anonymous
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Well, I won't argue that it is not personally disappointing and troublesome to have a potential drop in home equity. Changes to school assignment or commute also matter. Believe me, I pinched my pennies to buy my house too and anyone who endures a long commute, esp. in a dual income family, knows how much logistics can make or break a day.
Nonetheless, I'm a little impatient with those who dig their heels against redistricting. Speaking of HoCo - I can't comment intelligently on MoCo, as I don't know the geography well enough: 1. In Hoco, the existing school assignments are already not built to send all children to the closest school or into the shortest commute path. There are a lot of schools, esp. at the high school level, that are spaced in such a way that this would be close to impossible to achieve. Also, by intention or accident, HoCo students seem already to be assigned to school based partly on maintaining a certain school profile and / or keeping certain neighborhood "profiles" intact. So the status quo is already a gerrymandered map. This is particular obvious in southern HoCo. Perhaps it is just the soft pressure of communities to accept "busing" when it improves the profiles of certain high schools, but to yell loudly when it does not. In any case, we're already structuring things with an objective. It shouldn't be out of bounds to re-calibrate based on what is good for county and students in general. 2. I have no doubt that there are some proposed reassignments that don't make enough sense logistically and should be revisited. The plan should be questioned and tweaked. However, I also think it may be human nature to under-estimate or accept a slightly longer commute when the shift is perceived to be positive, and to over-estimate the commute time and impact when the shift is not perceived as being to a "better" school. So, I accept this is a factor that matters but I also strongly suspect it's a front to some degree. See also: people who moved to developments well off commute paths, all but guaranteeing a half hour or more commute, who are suddenly finding commute time to be desperately important to them. 3. There's a strong refrain not to "break up communities," but people are making the *choice* to view their community has having certain demographic or geographical boundaries. If we change the school assignments, then community can shift with the boundary change. And lot of the lines of "community" put divisions between communities that live in very close proximity. 4. In HoCo, part of the issue is development patterns. It is partly fast development is happening. It is also, and perhaps much more, a function of the fact that affordable and middle class housing is built in some areas and not others. A solution to this would be to plan and require a mixture of housing across the county, so that moving students around would only need to be done for over-crowding, not for equity. It would be wonderful for the County to pursue this goal, but if it refuses then what is the School Board supposed to do? It has to deal with what it is served. 5. If you are strong opponent of redistricting, then you have to do something about #4. If you refuse, particularly if you will not encourage or allow for diversity within your local area, then guess what - the schools are going to need to drive students further than you may prefer to create communities that reflect the composition of the county to prevent the gradual and destructive siloing of communities. I'd be in in the "no redistricting camp" if I thought there was going to be significant action on 4. But what isn't going to work is to oppose redistricting because "it's a development issue, not a school issue, don't 'break up' community, etc, etc" when you are in reality not going to advocate for and will in fact oppose the changes to development requirements and zoning / lot size / water requirements that would create a more balanced community close to where you live. 6. Lots of people save to buy their homes, not only relatively rich people. Just because you over-valued your house based on the misperception the school zone would not change does not bind the county to protecting you from yourself. It should make decisions based on the big picture for home owners all over the map. This constant buzz about certain schools being "better" than others and about certain communities being exclusive and others being "bad" devalues the property of lots of middle class families who own in older or more diverse areas. And allowing the schools to become increasingly pigeonholded by income also decreases some people's property values across time. So why is it important to protect 50k of equity in a 800k or 1 million home built 5 years ago, but it's not important to protect the equity in a 400k house a police officer bought 20 years ago? Again, big picture matters - we're all better off if everyone is zoned to a school with a mix of profiles, and we're all better if people aren't over-speculating in one area, and being *wink winked* out of buying into other areas. 7. It's 2019. This stuff is hard and we don't all agree on the solutions, but HoCo and MoCo should have enough good and smart people in them that we can find solutions with development and school policy. Let's do it! |
Anonymous
+ This is an exception and not a rule. |
Anonymous
No, they're not valid points in the context of the MCPS discussion BECAUSE NOBODY IS PROPOSING ANYTHING LIKE THIS. And WHEN NOBODY IS PROPOSING ANYTHING LIKE THIS and yet people keep bringing it up over and over and over and over and over again, then yeah, it makes you look like a xenophobe. |
Anonymous
I probably count as a dreaded social justice warrior by your standard, but I wouldn't be upset because I understand that my house's possible resale value going down is not "taking money away from me." I bought an asset that can go up or down in price, I understood that risk when I bought it. Did you not? Did you really believe that your "equity" was actual money you had? You really shouldn't make a huge purchase if you don't understand that. |
Anonymous
Great post. Having been on the redistricting chopping block for many years in HoCo, I understand how upsetting and disappointing it is to contemplate that the plans you have made in terms of school attendance may not pan out, especially if you think that you have purchased real estate to ensure that your kids go to the "best" schools. At the same time, I would love to hear those protesting this time around admit that the home purchase was meant to ensure that the kids attend school as few disadvantated children as possible. That is the truth. Look at the numbers. Another truth is that redistricting is necessary because certain schools are over crowded while others have capacity to spare. Unfortunately, the capacity is either in the center of Columbia or in the outliers, like River Hill, Mariotts Ridge, and Glen Elg. Shifting higher SES students to the outying areas only makes the Columbia high schools poorer, and the outliers more advantaged. I am curious about the outcry about the number of students being moved. Of course it is a disruption at first. But doesn't the fact that so many students are in the same boat make the change less traumatic than if it is just a few students being moved? At least neighborhoods would be in it together, as opposed to a few small tweaks that impose significant disadvantage on only a few families. Yes, the transition is difficult, but once established, everyone will settle in. I also agree with the PPs who said that most students will be fine, particularly if your child is in high school GT/Honors/AP classes. There won't be a significant change for your child. There may be some change, in terms of PE and general classes, but for the most part, students will adapt. If you have a child who you think would not do well in a more diverse school (I have one of those, so I understand) then private is an option or you can seek a waiver. As to the issue of bussing distances and long bus rides, I'm not sure that I understand that either. River Hill High School is 7.1 miles away from Wild Lake High School. Some polygons might wind up with a longer bus ride than they would if attending River Hill, but how much longer will it really be? Plenty of kids on the eastern side of the county have 8 or 9 mile bus rides and survive. I guess that sleep for River Hill students is more important than students in other parts of the county. I have my own concerns about whether this whole equity movement is really supported by data, and am particulary concerned about the lack of evidence establishing a tipping point at which all students are disadvantaged attending a higher poverty school. Obviously, the location of low to moderate income housing is a problem in terms of concentrating poverty and wealth in certain areas. So, River Hill residents, what efforts have you been making efforts to bring low to moderate income housing to your area? How are you working to ensure that there is socioeconimic diversity in your schools? There may be cultural diversity, but River Hill High School is not socioeconimically diverse. HCPSS has to play the hand it has been dealt, and that might involve moving students in a way that does not protect your financial investment or that inconveniences your children for a year or two until you settle in. It may seem unfair, but the rest of the county does not have much more to give. I won't call you resource hoarders, because like all parents, you simply want to provide the best lives you can for your children. However, a little compassion, understanding, and even a sliver of recognition of how entitled you sound would be welcome. Over the weekend, I went through several lists of the "best" high schools in Maryland. Montgomery County residents are always talking about how many of the "best" high schools they have. One thing to understand is that Howard County does not have an magnet schools, so each high school takes its student body as it is. There is no application process, and no self-selection. If you look at the "best" high schools throughout the state, many are maget schools and most (but not all) have very few non-Asican minority students and a small FARMs population. If you look at outcomes and the proportion of the student body that is disadvantaged, the best high school in Maryland is probably Poly in Baltimore, because have of its students receive FARMs, it is 70% AA, and its students are highly successful. However, you have to apply for Poly, and their student body represents the best and the brightest. My child attends a great high school that is further down in the rankings. However, if you look at the level of racial and socioeconimic diversity at the school and the outcomes, one could argue that it is one of the best. This school is doing a good job with students from all races and socioeconomic backgrounds. Social justice advocates have suggested increasing the FARMs concentration at this school to promote "equity." But if you wind up pusing the FARMs numbers about the 20%, who is to say that the outcomes will continue to be as good? Certainly tweaking the FARMS concentration at River Hill from less than 5% to 5% is less of a risk. The other point that needs to be recognized is the resources higher SES families put into education, in terms of tutors and outside supports. My friends at one of the "best" high schools in HoCo tell me that they hate being there, because most of the students in their advanced math classes already know the material coming in, having done extra enrichment in the summer. The heavy lifting occurs outside of school, whether it it tutoring, enrichment activities, SAT prep courses, etc. That's not going to change. As the PP said, this is a painful process but HCPSS has to act in the interest of all students, not just those with the richest and most vocal parents. I hope they do the right thing for the entire county. |
Anonymous
This already happens in MoCo. Bussing Darnestown kids last QO to NW and the discussion of bussing them past QO and NW to send them to SV. We have students at our ES who are bussed right past another ES to come to our school (I think this is because when that development came on line the closer school had less space but I don’t know for sure). MCPS busses CCES kids past RCF and RH to get to NCC and CCES. (The pairing of schools is kind of a separate issue I guess). It is really not clear at all what the new assessment might recommend and how much travel/additional travel may be involved. They may not make recommendations that involve being bussed past multiple schools or they may. Really no one knows at this point. |
Anonymous
But we do know that MCPS has stated this: "Any potential future process would continue to be based on the four factors established in Board Policy FAA, Educational Facilities Planning, for consideration in determining boundaries for student assignment. These four factors are: demographics of the student body population; geographic proximity of communities to schools; stability of assignments over time; and school capacity and enrollment." |
Anonymous
Which Northwest bus route goes past Quince Orchard HS? Or when you talk about kids who take buses that go past Quince Orchard HS, are you referring to kids who live nearer to Quince Orchard HS than to Northwest HS? In any case, as you say, many kids are ALREADY not going to their nearest schools. So I'm just not persuaded by the people who say that this is all about community schools and proximity and has nothing to do with desegregation. Almost certainly the boundary analysis will have some recommendations for reassigning DCUM-demographic neighborhoods to their nearer (poorer, browner) school from their further (less poor, less brown) school, and I expect DCUM to have the predictable response. The Upcounty Boundary Study has some options that do that, and DCUM hates them. |
Anonymous
| There must not be many people on this forum that live in Howard County since this entire thread is about Montgomery County Public Schools. |
Anonymous
And we also know that they made a big deal about adding "especially" to the FAA policy in reference to diversity as if it meant a change from the past. And that it was done after some people were not happy with the RM #5 boundary study where Twinbrook was left as a Title I school with a much higher FARMs rate than the other elementary schools in the cluster (though that is what the Twinbrook community advocated for). I really, honestly think we do not know how significant the changes proposed will be. It could be nibbling around the edges of particular boundaries and zones where there actually are under-capacity schools or it could be something more dramatic. We don't know and both the people who are convinced there will be kids being "bussed across the county" and those that say there is no reason for alarm and X, Y, or Z thing will not happen are wrong. We just don't know. |
Anonymous
I live in Howard County, but agree with the PP. You just don't know. When the Howard County redistricting process was initiated in January, the stated objective was to balance capacity - move students to schools with capacity to address over-crowding. To anyone in the know, they would realize that many of the schools with capacity were schools with higher FARMs concentration, but the equity angle was not emphasized at that time. Next, the staff released its Feasbility Study, which contained several proposals for adjusting boundaries. These did not significantly alter FARMs concentrations, in part because of geographic issues (i.e. thte lower income schools are close together which could lead to shifting students receiving FARMs from one high-FARMs school to another). Then, when the Superintendent presented his plan in August, the theme was boundary adjustments "through an equity lens." Equity became a driver for a plan that goes beyond minor adjustments, caling for what people are calling "swaps" of populations - chunks in of students receiving FARMs in and chunks out of higher SES out of less diverse schools to promote "equity." Bottom line - it is important to stay informed. The River Hill outcry demonstrates how blindsided the community was by this plan, even though if you paid careful and close attention, the writing was on the wall. This is a hot topic nationally, and the "increase diversity" forces seem to be gaining momentum. |