Baltimore Sun article about Howard County rezoning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was just curious, what are the people that live in areas that are potentially getting zoned OUT of river hill high doing right now? I can't imagine the anxiety knowing that you could potentially lose that much money overnight.

Panicking, evidently. And trying to find arguments against rezoning that aren't "But I might lose a lot of money!"

It's a pretty valid argument nonetheless. The county's actions is seeing housing values drop by more than $100k. That's stiff change. I imagine lawsuits will be filed.

No, it isn't.

It's a valid reason for you, personally, to be upset - if you're a property owner who believes that the resale value of your property will decrease as a result. It's not a valid factor for the Board of Education to consider in the boundary decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was just curious, what are the people that live in areas that are potentially getting zoned OUT of river hill high doing right now? I can't imagine the anxiety knowing that you could potentially lose that much money overnight.

Panicking, evidently. And trying to find arguments against rezoning that aren't "But I might lose a lot of money!"

It's a pretty valid argument nonetheless. The county's actions is seeing housing values drop by more than $100k. That's stiff change. I imagine lawsuits will be filed.

As I live pretty close to the neighborhoods affected and know (acquaintances of acquaintances) several families affected, they are doing a couple of things. First, they are consulting with attorneys to see if they have any grounds to have an injunction placed barring this from taking action. They are also doing some crowd-sourcing on local neighborhood and FB groups to try and get out the locals in affected areas to attend at least one of the community forum meetings to protest the plan. There is also a march planned to draw attention to the issue and also to drum up support for the protest at the community forum. This is what I've seen so far in the last 2 weeks.

[Anonymous]

If River Hill starts filing lawsuits, maybe some other folks need to sue over the affect not rezoning or assigning affordable so unevenly in HoCo or putting off capital improvement project has on home values in other communities.

I'm not being totally serious here - I don't even know if there is any legal basis for such a thing. I am just pointing out that it is curious if one group thinks they have a case over property value or not being able to attend the school they want, this theoretically would apply to a whole lot of other people too.

[Anonymous]

*I am just pointing out if one group thinks they have a case over property value or not being able to attend the school they want, this theoretically would apply to a whole lot of other people too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If River Hill starts filing lawsuits, maybe some other folks need to sue over the affect not rezoning or assigning affordable so unevenly in HoCo or putting off capital improvement project has on home values in other communities.

I'm not being totally serious here - I don't even know if there is any legal basis for such a thing. I am just pointing out that it is curious if one group thinks they have a case over property value or not being able to attend the school they want, this theoretically would apply to a whole lot of other people too.

The issue, of course, is that the people being moved out of River Hill are the ones with money. The ones in the other affected areas are the lower income families who the HoCo superintendent is trying to protect. They don't have the time or money for lawsuits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If River Hill starts filing lawsuits, maybe some other folks need to sue over the affect not rezoning or assigning affordable so unevenly in HoCo or putting off capital improvement project has on home values in other communities.

I'm not being totally serious here - I don't even know if there is any legal basis for such a thing. I am just pointing out that it is curious if one group thinks they have a case over property value or not being able to attend the school they want, this theoretically would apply to a whole lot of other people too.

The issue, of course, is that the people being moved out of River Hill are the ones with money. The ones in the other affected areas are the lower income families who the HoCo superintendent is trying to protect. They don't have the time or money for lawsuits.

Many of us beg to differ. If Dr. Martirano cares so much, then why does he want to ship FARM students who are within walking distance to their schools to schools far away on a bus? For example, people in the Oakland Mills Community can walk to school. It is a diverse community with individuals of all races, ethnicities, and socially economic levels. However, the superintendent wants to break up communities to push his political agenda.

For the last time this is not about River Hill! All of the high schools in Howard County are being effected by this ridiculous plan. It is just that folks are using River Hill as the piñata to mislead the public into what is really going on. Also, this plan moves some FARM students from schools which have many community resources that assist their families. The schools with wealthy students do not have food pantries, nursery care for teen mothers, public bus transportation, and other social or support services. What happens to a FARM student who needs support services? This plan is disastrous and does more harm to impoverished students. Parents of FARM students are already stressing over travel distance , what happens if their child misses the school bus, or what if their child wants to partake in an extra curricular activity after school. When your family does not own a car and public transportation in Howard is limited to certain areas than the transportation alone will be a nightmare.

Low income people are not naïve. They realize when politicians want to use and abuse them for their own interests. Notice there is no talk about addressing the needs of FARM students and their parents. Folks think that bussing is going to magically make the lives of FARM students better. If anything it makes it worst because not only do they loose their support system, they will be forced to attend schools where the folks do not want them, the students academically outpaced them, and they will be demoralized because instead of getting their needs met at their community schools they will be left in an environment where their self worth will be challenged on so many levels.

Try being a poor child in a school with wealthy students. It is like The Hunger Games, but ten times worst. The emotional abuse that comes along with bussing is just not worth it. I rather be poor and be surrounded by people who have my best interest at heart than to attend a school with rich students who do not give a damn about me.

White people like Dr. Martirano with their Jesus Christ Savior complex need to take a seat, sit down, and STHU! The community does not want this. Contrary to what you social engineers think many families love our schools and communities. One of the best things about Howard County is that the schools are truly a staple of the community even the schools with high FARM populations. Don't underestimate the strong community ties that children and families want to maintain.

Protection HA! The only thing he is protecting are his ties to local liberal politicians on the county council.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Many of us beg to differ. If Dr. Martirano cares so much, then why does he want to ship FARM students who are within walking distance to their schools to schools far away on a bus? For example, people in the Oakland Mills Community can walk to school. It is a diverse community with individuals of all races, ethnicities, and socially economic levels. However, the superintendent wants to break up communities to push his political agenda.

For the last time this is not about River Hill! All of the high schools in Howard County are being effected by this ridiculous plan. It is just that folks are using River Hill as the piñata to mislead the public into what is really going on. Also, this plan moves some FARM students from schools which have many community resources that assist their families. The schools with wealthy students do not have food pantries, nursery care for teen mothers, public bus transportation, and other social or support services. What happens to a FARM student who needs support services? This plan is disastrous and does more harm to impoverished students. Parents of FARM students are already stressing over travel distance , what happens if their child misses the school bus, or what if their child wants to partake in an extra curricular activity after school. When your family does not own a car and public transportation in Howard is limited to certain areas than the transportation alone will be a nightmare.

Low income people are not naïve. They realize when politicians want to use and abuse them for their own interests. Notice there is no talk about addressing the needs of FARM students and their parents. Folks think that bussing is going to magically make the lives of FARM students better. If anything it makes it worst because not only do they loose their support system, they will be forced to attend schools where the folks do not want them, the students academically outpaced them, and they will be demoralized because instead of getting their needs met at their community schools they will be left in an environment where their self worth will be challenged on so many levels.

Try being a poor child in a school with wealthy students. It is like The Hunger Games, but ten times worst. The emotional abuse that comes along with bussing is just not worth it. I rather be poor and be surrounded by people who have my best interest at heart than to attend a school with rich students who do not give a damn about me.

White people like Dr. Martirano with their Jesus Christ Savior complex need to take a seat, sit down, and STHU! The community does not want this. Contrary to what you social engineers think many families love our schools and communities. One of the best things about Howard County is that the schools are truly a staple of the community even the schools with high FARM populations. Don't underestimate the strong community ties that children and families want to maintain.

Protection HA! The only thing he is protecting are his ties to local liberal politicians on the county council.

Um. Have you read The Hunger Games? Or seen the movies?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If River Hill starts filing lawsuits, maybe some other folks need to sue over the affect not rezoning or assigning affordable so unevenly in HoCo or putting off capital improvement project has on home values in other communities.

I'm not being totally serious here - I don't even know if there is any legal basis for such a thing. I am just pointing out that it is curious if one group thinks they have a case over property value or not being able to attend the school they want, this theoretically would apply to a whole lot of other people too.

The issue, of course, is that the people being moved out of River Hill are the ones with money. The ones in the other affected areas are the lower income families who the HoCo superintendent is trying to protect. They don't have the time or money for lawsuits.

Many of us beg to differ. If Dr. Martirano cares so much, then why does he want to ship FARM students who are within walking distance to their schools to schools far away on a bus? For example, people in the Oakland Mills Community can walk to school. It is a diverse community with individuals of all races, ethnicities, and socially economic levels. However, the superintendent wants to break up communities to push his political agenda.

For the last time this is not about River Hill! All of the high schools in Howard County are being effected by this ridiculous plan. It is just that folks are using River Hill as the piñata to mislead the public into what is really going on. Also, this plan moves some FARM students from schools which have many community resources that assist their families. The schools with wealthy students do not have food pantries, nursery care for teen mothers, public bus transportation, and other social or support services. What happens to a FARM student who needs support services? This plan is disastrous and does more harm to impoverished students. Parents of FARM students are already stressing over travel distance , what happens if their child misses the school bus, or what if their child wants to partake in an extra curricular activity after school. When your family does not own a car and public transportation in Howard is limited to certain areas than the transportation alone will be a nightmare.

Low income people are not naïve. They realize when politicians want to use and abuse them for their own interests. Notice there is no talk about addressing the needs of FARM students and their parents. Folks think that bussing is going to magically make the lives of FARM students better. If anything it makes it worst because not only do they loose their support system, they will be forced to attend schools where the folks do not want them, the students academically outpaced them, and they will be demoralized because instead of getting their needs met at their community schools they will be left in an environment where their self worth will be challenged on so many levels.

Try being a poor child in a school with wealthy students. It is like The Hunger Games, but ten times worst. The emotional abuse that comes along with bussing is just not worth it. I rather be poor and be surrounded by people who have my best interest at heart than to attend a school with rich students who do not give a damn about me.

White people like Dr. Martirano with their Jesus Christ Savior complex need to take a seat, sit down, and STHU! The community does not want this. Contrary to what you social engineers think many families love our schools and communities. One of the best things about Howard County is that the schools are truly a staple of the community even the schools with high FARM populations. Don't underestimate the strong community ties that children and families want to maintain.

Protection HA! The only thing he is protecting are his ties to local liberal politicians on the county council.

If this isn’t about River Hill and is about moving kids out of community schools, why where was there no outcry about the feasibility study released earlier this spring/summer about the redistricting/increased bussing? That study did nit touch anY RH kids but did move around kids at OM, WL, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If River Hill starts filing lawsuits, maybe some other folks need to sue over the affect not rezoning or assigning affordable so unevenly in HoCo or putting off capital improvement project has on home values in other communities.

I'm not being totally serious here - I don't even know if there is any legal basis for such a thing. I am just pointing out that it is curious if one group thinks they have a case over property value or not being able to attend the school they want, this theoretically would apply to a whole lot of other people too.

The issue, of course, is that the people being moved out of River Hill are the ones with money. The ones in the other affected areas are the lower income families who the HoCo superintendent is trying to protect. They don't have the time or money for lawsuits.

Many of us beg to differ. If Dr. Martirano cares so much, then why does he want to ship FARM students who are within walking distance to their schools to schools far away on a bus? For example, people in the Oakland Mills Community can walk to school. It is a diverse community with individuals of all races, ethnicities, and socially economic levels. However, the superintendent wants to break up communities to push his political agenda.

For the last time this is not about River Hill! All of the high schools in Howard County are being effected by this ridiculous plan. It is just that folks are using River Hill as the piñata to mislead the public into what is really going on. Also, this plan moves some FARM students from schools which have many community resources that assist their families. The schools with wealthy students do not have food pantries, nursery care for teen mothers, public bus transportation, and other social or support services. What happens to a FARM student who needs support services? This plan is disastrous and does more harm to impoverished students. Parents of FARM students are already stressing over travel distance , what happens if their child misses the school bus, or what if their child wants to partake in an extra curricular activity after school. When your family does not own a car and public transportation in Howard is limited to certain areas than the transportation alone will be a nightmare.

Low income people are not naïve. They realize when politicians want to use and abuse them for their own interests. Notice there is no talk about addressing the needs of FARM students and their parents. Folks think that bussing is going to magically make the lives of FARM students better. If anything it makes it worst because not only do they loose their support system, they will be forced to attend schools where the folks do not want them, the students academically outpaced them, and they will be demoralized because instead of getting their needs met at their community schools they will be left in an environment where their self worth will be challenged on so many levels.

Try being a poor child in a school with wealthy students. It is like The Hunger Games, but ten times worst. The emotional abuse that comes along with bussing is just not worth it. I rather be poor and be surrounded by people who have my best interest at heart than to attend a school with rich students who do not give a damn about me.

White people like Dr. Martirano with their Jesus Christ Savior complex need to take a seat, sit down, and STHU! The community does not want this. Contrary to what you social engineers think many families love our schools and communities. One of the best things about Howard County is that the schools are truly a staple of the community even the schools with high FARM populations. Don't underestimate the strong community ties that children and families want to maintain.

Protection HA! The only thing he is protecting are his ties to local liberal politicians on the county council.

If this isn’t about River Hill and is about moving kids out of community schools, why where was there no outcry about the feasibility study released earlier this spring/summer about the redistricting/increased bussing? That study did nit touch anY RH kids but did move around kids at OM, WL, etc.

Actually let me clarify: those proposals moved about 120 RH kids to Glen Elg. And moved the wealthier parts of that border RH on the east to RH, increasing the FARMS rate in the eastern schools. I wonder why there was no outcry about that proposal, like there is about this one?

[Anonymous]

Yeah, the argument against shifting FARMs students to different schools is not necessarily a bad one. However, it is also one one folks in Western areas of the county discovered and became passionate about only 46 seconds ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If River Hill starts filing lawsuits, maybe some other folks need to sue over the affect not rezoning or assigning affordable so unevenly in HoCo or putting off capital improvement project has on home values in other communities.

I'm not being totally serious here - I don't even know if there is any legal basis for such a thing. I am just pointing out that it is curious if one group thinks they have a case over property value or not being able to attend the school they want, this theoretically would apply to a whole lot of other people too.

The issue, of course, is that the people being moved out of River Hill are the ones with money. The ones in the other affected areas are the lower income families who the HoCo superintendent is trying to protect. They don't have the time or money for lawsuits.

Many of us beg to differ. If Dr. Martirano cares so much, then why does he want to ship FARM students who are within walking distance to their schools to schools far away on a bus? For example, people in the Oakland Mills Community can walk to school. It is a diverse community with individuals of all races, ethnicities, and socially economic levels. However, the superintendent wants to break up communities to push his political agenda.

For the last time this is not about River Hill! All of the high schools in Howard County are being effected by this ridiculous plan. It is just that folks are using River Hill as the piñata to mislead the public into what is really going on. Also, this plan moves some FARM students from schools which have many community resources that assist their families. The schools with wealthy students do not have food pantries, nursery care for teen mothers, public bus transportation, and other social or support services. What happens to a FARM student who needs support services? This plan is disastrous and does more harm to impoverished students. Parents of FARM students are already stressing over travel distance , what happens if their child misses the school bus, or what if their child wants to partake in an extra curricular activity after school. When your family does not own a car and public transportation in Howard is limited to certain areas than the transportation alone will be a nightmare.

Low income people are not naïve. They realize when politicians want to use and abuse them for their own interests. Notice there is no talk about addressing the needs of FARM students and their parents. Folks think that bussing is going to magically make the lives of FARM students better. If anything it makes it worst because not only do they loose their support system, they will be forced to attend schools where the folks do not want them, the students academically outpaced them, and they will be demoralized because instead of getting their needs met at their community schools they will be left in an environment where their self worth will be challenged on so many levels.

Try being a poor child in a school with wealthy students. It is like The Hunger Games, but ten times worst. The emotional abuse that comes along with bussing is just not worth it. I rather be poor and be surrounded by people who have my best interest at heart than to attend a school with rich students who do not give a damn about me.

White people like Dr. Martirano with their Jesus Christ Savior complex need to take a seat, sit down, and STHU! The community does not want this. Contrary to what you social engineers think many families love our schools and communities. One of the best things about Howard County is that the schools are truly a staple of the community even the schools with high FARM populations. Don't underestimate the strong community ties that children and families want to maintain.

Protection HA! The only thing he is protecting are his ties to local liberal politicians on the county council.

If this isn’t about River Hill and is about moving kids out of community schools, why where was there no outcry about the feasibility study released earlier this spring/summer about the redistricting/increased bussing? That study did nit touch anY RH kids but did move around kids at OM, WL, etc.

Actually let me clarify: those proposals moved about 120 RH kids to Glen Elg. And moved the wealthier parts of that border RH on the east to RH, increasing the FARMS rate in the eastern schools. I wonder why there was no outcry about that proposal, like there is about this one?

The feasibility study dealt with overcrowding and was much more modest.

No student swapping. No busing students past 7 closer schools to get to another school. No breaking school districts into islands.

Most people understand redistricting to alleviate overcrowding. It's a necessary evil.

What's happening with this new plan goes way beyond that and has morphed into social engineering based on inconclusive studies.

The two plans are not apples to apples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[

The feasibility study dealt with overcrowding and was much more modest.

No student swapping. No busing students past 7 closer schools to get to another school. No breaking school districts into islands.

Most people understand redistricting to alleviate overcrowding. It's a necessary evil.

What's happening with this new plan goes way beyond that and has morphed into social engineering based on inconclusive studies.

The two plans are not apples to apples.

The school district is the Howard County Public School System (HCPSS).

And if the desegregation efforts are social engineering, then so were the (successful) segregation efforts.

[Anonymous]

There are certainly points to be made for or against the particular proposal under consideration. I have posted upthread in favor but have some reservations and understand some of the objections. However, I keep looking at a map and I don't see how anyone is being bused past "7 schools that are closer" to attend School 8.

On the current map, the River Hill attendance area abuts to the attendance areas for Glenelg High, Marriotts Ridge High, Atholton High, and Wilde Lake. So trading some polygons between any of these areas is within the realms of reasonable.

And to give people an idea of distances, at least with the High Schools:

River Hill High School to Wilde Lake High School: 4.9 Miles
River Hill High School to Centennial High School: 4.7 Miles
River Hill High School to Reservoir High School: 6.8
River Hill High School to Atholton High School: 6.0 Miles
River Hill High School to Marriotts Ridge: 10.8 Miles
River Hill High School to Hammond High School: 7.6 Miles

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are certainly points to be made for or against the particular proposal under consideration. I have posted upthread in favor but have some reservations and understand some of the objections. However, I keep looking at a map and I don't see how anyone is being bused past "7 schools that are closer" to attend School 8.

On the current map, the River Hill attendance area abuts to the attendance areas for Glenelg High, Marriotts Ridge High, Atholton High, and Wilde Lake. So trading some polygons between any of these areas is within the realms of reasonable.

And to give people an idea of distances, at least with the High Schools:

River Hill High School to Wilde Lake High School: 4.9 Miles
River Hill High School to Centennial High School: 4.7 Miles
River Hill High School to Reservoir High School: 6.8
River Hill High School to Atholton High School: 6.0 Miles
River Hill High School to Marriotts Ridge: 10.8 Miles
River Hill High School to Hammond High School: 7.6 Miles

I also have some reservations about the plan, although I generally support the idea of creating more diverse student populations wherever possible.

Redistricting is a pain and potentially damanging to anyone involved. And it is not ideal to move students to a school that is farther away from their current school, but . . .

The first night of testimony had many parents complaining about being moved from Mount Hebron to Mariotts Ridge, because they can bike to Mount Hebron and the community has attended that school for many years. I'm sympathetic. However . . .

At the same time, there is overcrowding in the eastern areas and capacity in the west. What should happen? There has to be a shift to the west. You can't take kids from Howard or Long Reach and send them to Marriotts Ridge. That would be more than 20 miles! And is it fair to fill WL and OM by shifting even more students receiving FARMs into them? The feasibility study proposals impacted fewer students, but they did little to address the concentration of poverty at a few schools.

People whose kids are not attending or districted to attend overcrowded schools didn't care about crowding in the east until now, when it has the potential to impact them. They also didn't care about povery until now. Now it's all about, "let's get video AP classes" or "I'll volunteer to tutor, just don't move my kid away from her friends."

Perhaps if there had been more concern about crowding and povery countywide before now, HCPSS would have moved more quickly to get HS 13 and even 14 built and these "swaps" and longer commutes would not be necessar.y Sometimes, taking time to care about the big picture and the overall well being of students in the county winds up serving your individual interests more than promoting only what matters to you. Want to stay in your current school? Advocate for fairness throughout the system before we pass the point of no return.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was just curious, what are the people that live in areas that are potentially getting zoned OUT of river hill high doing right now? I can't imagine the anxiety knowing that you could potentially lose that much money overnight.

Panicking, evidently. And trying to find arguments against rezoning that aren't "But I might lose a lot of money!"

It's a pretty valid argument nonetheless. The county's actions is seeing housing values drop by more than $100k. That's stiff change. I imagine lawsuits will be filed.

As I live pretty close to the neighborhoods affected and know (acquaintances of acquaintances) several families affected, they are doing a couple of things. First, they are consulting with attorneys to see if they have any grounds to have an injunction placed barring this from taking action. They are also doing some crowd-sourcing on local neighborhood and FB groups to try and get out the locals in affected areas to attend at least one of the community forum meetings to protest the plan. There is also a march planned to draw attention to the issue and also to drum up support for the protest at the community forum. This is what I've seen so far in the last 2 weeks.

Their efforts would be better spent learning the Charlie Brown.