Question about summer swim/progress

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here-thank you for all the information. I guess not being a swimmer myself I didn't really understand that all the swim team practicing would not help them without outside lessons as well. I guess they were just practicing every day the wrong way. The team has a lot of coaches but also a lot of kids. My younger child could care less but my older one is competitive and would be frustrated not seeing her time get faster after the meets.

It took us two seasons to figure things out. I also had a frustrated almost 10 year old who was ready to quit last summer. We invested in a real winter swim program last year and saw a huge difference this summer. He just needed someone to teach him the technique, which doesn't happen during summer swim practice. The good winter swim programs are expensive, but you can almost guarantee that all the top summer ladder kids in the NVSL pools are doing Machine, AAC, York, etc. during the winter. At our pool, we also noticed that the coaches spent more time with the A meet kids and pretty much assumed the B meet kids were just there for fun so they got almost no coaching. When my son started to make A meet times this summer, he was suddenly getting more instruction during practice. That fact still annoys me because all families pay the same fees for the summer swim team, but it is the reality at most pools. The coaches focus on winning the A meets, not what happens at B meets.

[Anonymous]

Could someone rec a good winter program for a swimmer st this beginner level to work on stroke technique?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Could someone rec a good winter program for a swimmer st this beginner level to work on stroke technique?

Where are you? There are plenty of places to swim in the winter, but you need one that is convenient to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here-thank you for all the information. I guess not being a swimmer myself I didn't really understand that all the swim team practicing would not help them without outside lessons as well. I guess they were just practicing every day the wrong way. The team has a lot of coaches but also a lot of kids. My younger child could care less but my older one is competitive and would be frustrated not seeing her time get faster after the meets.

It took us two seasons to figure things out. I also had a frustrated almost 10 year old who was ready to quit last summer. We invested in a real winter swim program last year and saw a huge difference this summer. He just needed someone to teach him the technique, which doesn't happen during summer swim practice. The good winter swim programs are expensive, but you can almost guarantee that all the top summer ladder kids in the NVSL pools are doing Machine, AAC, York, etc. during the winter. At our pool, we also noticed that the coaches spent more time with the A meet kids and pretty much assumed the B meet kids were just there for fun so they got almost no coaching. When my son started to make A meet times this summer, he was suddenly getting more instruction during practice. That fact still annoys me because all families pay the same fees for the summer swim team, but it is the reality at most pools. The coaches focus on winning the A meets, not what happens at B meets.

which winter one did you do where you thought you got real stroke instruction? And how many days were you in the water? I keep on getting ready to pull the trigger on a more expensive winter swim, and then hear someone say that there are like 10 kids in a lane with teenage coaches doing laps. I can get that much cheaper through some of the pool 1 day a week winter swim programs?

[Anonymous]

I coached summer swim team and swam through college. Kids do not improve that much in summer league because there are so many kids of varying levels that it’s hard to give much individual attention. I’d sign them up for a winter program but not private lessons. The winter swim coaches will be much more experienced and will give your kids plenty of personal instruction. I don’t recall ever having a private lesson in my life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could someone rec a good winter program for a swimmer st this beginner level to work on stroke technique?

Where are you? There are plenty of places to swim in the winter, but you need one that is convenient to you.

We are in the Chantilly/Centreville/South Riding area. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could someone rec a good winter program for a swimmer st this beginner level to work on stroke technique?

Where are you? There are plenty of places to swim in the winter, but you need one that is convenient to you.

We are in the Chantilly/Centreville/South Riding area. Thanks.

A number of teams offer winter swim at Dulles South Riding: NCAP, DRAGON are the fastest. DRAG has "ABC class" for beginners which is similar by hours offered to a swim team. NCAP would take them if all strokes are already legal.

[Anonymous]

Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another honest assessment.

It’s hard for kids who are competitive swimmers (let’s say year round swimmers/A meet swimmers) to cut 3 seconds over the course of a summer season in a stroke that they commonly swim. For kids who are middle of the pack, maybe those who have experience with summer swim but don’t swim year round (but who focus on improving their time), 3 seconds sounds about right.

For inexperienced swim team members new to the whole thing, I would expect them to cut more than 3 seconds from their initial time over the summer, especially a 10 year old. This isn’t to say that those swimmers won’t cut tons more time in the future, but as a parent I would consider getting them some private stroke instruction because it sounds like some focused stroke refinement could help them catch up with the pack.

This is exactly what I was going to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here-thank you for all the information. I guess not being a swimmer myself I didn't really understand that all the swim team practicing would not help them without outside lessons as well. I guess they were just practicing every day the wrong way. The team has a lot of coaches but also a lot of kids. My younger child could care less but my older one is competitive and would be frustrated not seeing her time get faster after the meets.

Year round swim parent here. My 10 yr old DD is on a summer team but we miss about 85% of the practices and just go to meets. DD trains at competitive swim camps during the week.
I don't think any of the kids in our summer league will see any improvement with the type of instruction they are getting from the summer coaches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your kids never did swim team before I think that’s fine.

Just focus on personal bests for them - if they get a personal best what more can you ask?
It’s possible that once they’re even more used to it, it will click & they’ll knock even more time off.

My 7 y/o went from 34 to 27 in fly last night. It was a new stroke for him this season and I think it just kind of clicked for him last night. At our pool he doesn’t swim A meets this summer - thought he probably will next summer when he’s 8.

PP here again, so I am laughing because he actually made it to divisionals as a “wildcard” entry now. So here’s my plan for during the year - I think he and his older sibling are going to do our summer pool’s weekly winter swim program and only that. We do know one guy we like who does private lessons and I think from time to time if there’s a week winter swim is canceled or we can’t make it, I’ll have them go to the other guy for a lesson from time to time for a little extra technical practice. And, I’m really resolving to really try to get them to a rec center pool from time to time for some more free play / swim this winter. They may not be the world’s greatest swimmers but they also do other sports and I don’t want to press too hard right now that they stop having fun. It’s a real fine line to walk - because you know they also have fun when they’re doing well.

I am also laughing because for B meets, our pool lets the parents pick what events the kid swims (unless they’re not close to legal or they swam that stroke at an A meet). Anyway I let my kids pick what they wanted me to sign them up for, and every B meet the 7 y/o picked free and fly and I kept saying he should do back at least one more time after time trials but he refused because he didn’t want to hit his head and he didn’t want to hear about counting strokes after the flags. I begrudgingly let him pick what he wanted, so I guess he showed me, lol.

But also with respect to the other recent post, of course this is the obvious reason why B meet judges have to be true to the stroke and turn rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Did great.

Hmm, I kinda disagree. The one time given, the 8 yo's backstroke---with decent instruction, a reasonably athletic child should have improved down to around 35 seconds for 25 meters. The little kids with these high times are usually going criss cross instead of straight and that's a pretty simple fix if anyone is paying attention.

This is a summer kid, so the goal is to drop and beat their own time. They did great.

+1
They should be proud! At our pool they emphasize that it's about beating yourself, not in one meet or another but that the overall trend should be going down. The smiles on these kids faces when they do that is really priceless. One year, a 14-year-old swimmer was jumping up and down telling me how much time she dropped. This was a B meet and she's a summer swimmer and she was having fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here-thank you for all the information. I guess not being a swimmer myself I didn't really understand that all the swim team practicing would not help them without outside lessons as well. I guess they were just practicing every day the wrong way. The team has a lot of coaches but also a lot of kids. My younger child could care less but my older one is competitive and would be frustrated not seeing her time get faster after the meets.

It took us two seasons to figure things out. I also had a frustrated almost 10 year old who was ready to quit last summer. We invested in a real winter swim program last year and saw a huge difference this summer. He just needed someone to teach him the technique, which doesn't happen during summer swim practice. The good winter swim programs are expensive, but you can almost guarantee that all the top summer ladder kids in the NVSL pools are doing Machine, AAC, York, etc. during the winter. At our pool, we also noticed that the coaches spent more time with the A meet kids and pretty much assumed the B meet kids were just there for fun so they got almost no coaching. When my son started to make A meet times this summer, he was suddenly getting more instruction during practice. That fact still annoys me because all families pay the same fees for the summer swim team, but it is the reality at most pools. The coaches focus on winning the A meets, not what happens at B meets.

which winter one did you do where you thought you got real stroke instruction? And how many days were you in the water? I keep on getting ready to pull the trigger on a more expensive winter swim, and then hear someone say that there are like 10 kids in a lane with teenage coaches doing laps. I can get that much cheaper through some of the pool 1 day a week winter swim programs?

Try the Stroke Mechanics program through Machine Swim. It is one day a week (Sept-May) and focuses on technique and getting the kids legal in all four strokes before the summer swim season. They taught my 9 yo Fly and flip turns, and got him legal in Breast last winter. We are in an mid-tier NVSL pool and he swam A meets all summer, after not making a single A meet last year. He's certainly not Olympic material, but he had a much better experience in summer swim this year when he wasn't DQing at every B meet. At least in our Machine class, it ranged from 5-6 kids in a lane and they definitely got good instruction. Remember that some of it is on your kid though to take it seriously-- do they listen and incorporate the coaching into their stroke, or are they goofing around with their head under the water when the coach is talking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here-thank you for all the information. I guess not being a swimmer myself I didn't really understand that all the swim team practicing would not help them without outside lessons as well. I guess they were just practicing every day the wrong way. The team has a lot of coaches but also a lot of kids. My younger child could care less but my older one is competitive and would be frustrated not seeing her time get faster after the meets.

It took us two seasons to figure things out. I also had a frustrated almost 10 year old who was ready to quit last summer. We invested in a real winter swim program last year and saw a huge difference this summer. He just needed someone to teach him the technique, which doesn't happen during summer swim practice. The good winter swim programs are expensive, but you can almost guarantee that all the top summer ladder kids in the NVSL pools are doing Machine, AAC, York, etc. during the winter. At our pool, we also noticed that the coaches spent more time with the A meet kids and pretty much assumed the B meet kids were just there for fun so they got almost no coaching. When my son started to make A meet times this summer, he was suddenly getting more instruction during practice. That fact still annoys me because all families pay the same fees for the summer swim team, but it is the reality at most pools. The coaches focus on winning the A meets, not what happens at B meets.

which winter one did you do where you thought you got real stroke instruction? And how many days were you in the water? I keep on getting ready to pull the trigger on a more expensive winter swim, and then hear someone say that there are like 10 kids in a lane with teenage coaches doing laps. I can get that much cheaper through some of the pool 1 day a week winter swim programs?

Try the Stroke Mechanics program through Machine Swim. It is one day a week (Sept-May) and focuses on technique and getting the kids legal in all four strokes before the summer swim season. They taught my 9 yo Fly and flip turns, and got him legal in Breast last winter. We are in an mid-tier NVSL pool and he swam A meets all summer, after not making a single A meet last year. He's certainly not Olympic material, but he had a much better experience in summer swim this year when he wasn't DQing at every B meet. At least in our Machine class, it ranged from 5-6 kids in a lane and they definitely got good instruction. Remember that some of it is on your kid though to take it seriously-- do they listen and incorporate the coaching into their stroke, or are they goofing around with their head under the water when the coach is talking?

Arent they in Vienna ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What were the rest of the times, OP?

For the 10 yo, she started at 1:05 for backstroke and ended at 1:02. For freestyle, she started at 1:01 and ended at 58 seconds.

For the 8 yo, she started at 32 seconds for freestyle and ended at 28 seconds.

They are both athletic and do well at other sports (soccer, basketball, gymnastics).

I think that's a decent improvement in freestyle. Some swimmers of the same age at our team have times close to that.
For new swimmers technique makes a big difference and on our team they don't get a lot of help with that. My DS improved his times when he got private lessons to help with technique.

+1
Both very respectable times for 10 and 8. For the 10 year old it's the turn that is difficult to learn in one summer. I have a year round swimmer who still loses a lot of time on the turns.

I doubt a 10 yo brand new to swim team is working on flip turns.

Of course they are. our swim team always works on turns. This includes kids who already know how to do flip turns and those who are new. Is it top notch instruction and broken down like year round program would do, no, but they do work on it some. When your's swimming 50s in summer swim races are often won and lost on turns.

OP, I would have expected more improvement for new swimmers over the course of the summer, but that doesn't always happen. Team are big and individual instruction is hard to give. Summer swim teams to be a lot more about conditioning that super focused on technique. Kids are also often very inconsistent at this age. One of my kids got slower in fly this summer because his technique turned to crap. Our winter swim program openly says they spend the first month back correcting all the bad habits that kids pick up over the summer.