Question about summer swim/progress

[Anonymous]

OP here-thank you for all the information. I guess not being a swimmer myself I didn't really understand that all the swim team practicing would not help them without outside lessons as well. I guess they were just practicing every day the wrong way. The team has a lot of coaches but also a lot of kids. My younger child could care less but my older one is competitive and would be frustrated not seeing her time get faster after the meets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What were the rest of the times, OP?

For the 10 yo, she started at 1:05 for backstroke and ended at 1:02. For freestyle, she started at 1:01 and ended at 58 seconds.

For the 8 yo, she started at 32 seconds for freestyle and ended at 28 seconds.

They are both athletic and do well at other sports (soccer, basketball, gymnastics).

My children are on a big team and I don't think the times are that bad, its the lack of improvement from time trials to the end of the season that is unusual. I'm wondering if they improved a lot in the time from the very first practice to time trials (usually 2-3 weeks of daily practice after school). The backstroke time is decent for a 10 yo, a 28 second freestyle for an 8 yo is pretty average esp for the first year doing swimming. Maybe their age groups on your team just had a lot of really fast swimmers which made them seem slower by comparison. They definitely wouldn't have been the absolute slowest on our swim team in those age groups.

[Anonymous]

That backstroke time for an 8 yo is pretty bad. Some kids are just naturally terrible at backstroke. Heavy bones or something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What were the rest of the times, OP?

For the 10 yo, she started at 1:05 for backstroke and ended at 1:02. For freestyle, she started at 1:01 and ended at 58 seconds.

For the 8 yo, she started at 32 seconds for freestyle and ended at 28 seconds.

They are both athletic and do well at other sports (soccer, basketball, gymnastics).

My children are on a big team and I don't think the times are that bad, its the lack of improvement from time trials to the end of the season that is unusual. I'm wondering if they improved a lot in the time from the very first practice to time trials (usually 2-3 weeks of daily practice after school). The backstroke time is decent for a 10 yo, a 28 second freestyle for an 8 yo is pretty average esp for the first year doing swimming. Maybe their age groups on your team just had a lot of really fast swimmers which made them seem slower by comparison. They definitely wouldn't have been the absolute slowest on our swim team in those age groups.

My kids did swim for many years and I agree with this poster. I bet they improved a ton those first few weeks (which wouldn't be captured in the times) AND were neglected on technique corrections by the swim coaches for the rest of the summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: were neglected on technique corrections by the swim coaches for the rest of the summer.

FWIW, I think kids with less swimming experience may less equipped to understand and apply what the coaches are saying. So if a coach says to a whole lane of kids, "let's do the superman drill," some kids will know exactly what that means, while others are going to be bumbling around, trying to figure it out. I think that great summer swim coaches are able to find the kids who need extra help and give it to them, but it may not always happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: were neglected on technique corrections by the swim coaches for the rest of the summer.

FWIW, I think kids with less swimming experience may less equipped to understand and apply what the coaches are saying. So if a coach says to a whole lane of kids, "let's do the superman drill," some kids will know exactly what that means, while others are going to be bumbling around, trying to figure it out. I think that great summer swim coaches are able to find the kids who need extra help and give it to them, but it may not always happen.

I agree with this, but there are too many kids on a large swim team for coaches to spend consistent one on one time with each. A kid doesn’t go from not knowing how to do a stroke to perfect form over a summer, even if coaches aren’t neglecting them. Having good individual stroke instruction gives a swimmer the raw materials to make the most of summer swim.

[Anonymous]

Swim team is just practice, not instruction.

Practice makes you very reliable at the moves you repeat.
If the moves are wrong, you will reliably do them wrong and it will take ten times longer to correct them than the time it took you to learn them wrong. A huge waste of time.

Conclusion: serious swimmers never do swim team without private instruction, just like serious musicians never do orchestra without private lessons, or serious gymnasts do competitive team without private coaching... nothing can replace individual instruction in any discipline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What were the rest of the times, OP?

For the 10 yo, she started at 1:05 for backstroke and ended at 1:02. For freestyle, she started at 1:01 and ended at 58 seconds.

For the 8 yo, she started at 32 seconds for freestyle and ended at 28 seconds.

They are both athletic and do well at other sports (soccer, basketball, gymnastics).

I think that's a decent improvement in freestyle. Some swimmers of the same age at our team have times close to that.
For new swimmers technique makes a big difference and on our team they don't get a lot of help with that. My DS improved his times when he got private lessons to help with technique.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Swim team is just practice, not instruction.

Practice makes you very reliable at the moves you repeat.
If the moves are wrong, you will reliably do them wrong and it will take ten times longer to correct them than the time it took you to learn them wrong. A huge waste of time.

Conclusion: serious swimmers never do swim team without private instruction, just like serious musicians never do orchestra without private lessons, or serious gymnasts do competitive team without private coaching... nothing can replace individual instruction in any discipline.

I agree with you, but I don't think swim teams make this clear to the parents. They don't want to lose swimmers. It is reasonable for a person like OP who doesn't know much about swimming to think her children will be instructed on how to swim properly. When I sign my kid up for basketball, the coach shows him how to shoot and dribble. Etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Swim team is just practice, not instruction.

Practice makes you very reliable at the moves you repeat.
If the moves are wrong, you will reliably do them wrong and it will take ten times longer to correct them than the time it took you to learn them wrong. A huge waste of time.

Conclusion: serious swimmers never do swim team without private instruction, just like serious musicians never do orchestra without private lessons, or serious gymnasts do competitive team without private coaching... nothing can replace individual instruction in any discipline.

I agree with you, but I don't think swim teams make this clear to the parents. They don't want to lose swimmers. It is reasonable for a person like OP who doesn't know much about swimming to think her children will be instructed on how to swim properly. When I sign my kid up for basketball, the coach shows him how to shoot and dribble. Etc.

I agree that swim teams generally don’t make this clear to parents, but not out of fear of losing swimmers. There are a lot of things about swimming as a kids’ sport that are mysteries to parents or learned through experience, and this is one of them. There is a lot to learn for new swim parents, but not because information is deliberately withheld.

Another note- many kids on swim teams start in some sort of minis program/swim school where the basic strokes are taught. Then they move on to the swim team. New “older” swimmers joining a swim team for the first time won’t have the benefit of this foundation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Did great.

Hmm, I kinda disagree. The one time given, the 8 yo's backstroke---with decent instruction, a reasonably athletic child should have improved down to around 35 seconds for 25 meters. The little kids with these high times are usually going criss cross instead of straight and that's a pretty simple fix if anyone is paying attention.

This is a summer kid, so the goal is to drop and beat their own time. They did great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What were the rest of the times, OP?

For the 10 yo, she started at 1:05 for backstroke and ended at 1:02. For freestyle, she started at 1:01 and ended at 58 seconds.

For the 8 yo, she started at 32 seconds for freestyle and ended at 28 seconds.

They are both athletic and do well at other sports (soccer, basketball, gymnastics).

I think that's a decent improvement in freestyle. Some swimmers of the same age at our team have times close to that.
For new swimmers technique makes a big difference and on our team they don't get a lot of help with that. My DS improved his times when he got private lessons to help with technique.

+1
Both very respectable times for 10 and 8. For the 10 year old it's the turn that is difficult to learn in one summer. I have a year round swimmer who still loses a lot of time on the turns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Did great.

Hmm, I kinda disagree. The one time given, the 8 yo's backstroke---with decent instruction, a reasonably athletic child should have improved down to around 35 seconds for 25 meters. The little kids with these high times are usually going criss cross instead of straight and that's a pretty simple fix if anyone is paying attention.

This is a summer kid, so the goal is to drop and beat their own time. They did great.

That’s your idea of a goal for them. Their idea might be more “don’t come in last.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Did great.

Hmm, I kinda disagree. The one time given, the 8 yo's backstroke---with decent instruction, a reasonably athletic child should have improved down to around 35 seconds for 25 meters. The little kids with these high times are usually going criss cross instead of straight and that's a pretty simple fix if anyone is paying attention.

This is a summer kid, so the goal is to drop and beat their own time. They did great.

That’s your idea of a goal for them. Their idea might be more “don’t come in last.”

Lots of kids who just do summer swim still want to win their races.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What were the rest of the times, OP?

For the 10 yo, she started at 1:05 for backstroke and ended at 1:02. For freestyle, she started at 1:01 and ended at 58 seconds.

For the 8 yo, she started at 32 seconds for freestyle and ended at 28 seconds.

They are both athletic and do well at other sports (soccer, basketball, gymnastics).

I think that's a decent improvement in freestyle. Some swimmers of the same age at our team have times close to that.
For new swimmers technique makes a big difference and on our team they don't get a lot of help with that. My DS improved his times when he got private lessons to help with technique.

+1
Both very respectable times for 10 and 8. For the 10 year old it's the turn that is difficult to learn in one summer. I have a year round swimmer who still loses a lot of time on the turns.

I doubt a 10 yo brand new to swim team is working on flip turns.