Arlington Parents Coalition keeps strange bedfellows

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't see us making any progress on this front. There are two things the sides would have to agree with.

1. There is no such thing as hate speech.
2. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness.

Until there is common ground on these two topics there is very little that can be done.

I attended the school board meeting last night, and was deeply saddened to observe parents who are unwilling to teach their children these facts but go beyond basic negligence and teach the opposite. It is child abuse at the very least.

Am I understanding correctly -- you think "there is no such thing as hate speech"? You consider that a "fact"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see us making any progress on this front. There are two things the sides would have to agree with.

1. There is no such thing as hate speech.
2. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness.

Until there is common ground on these two topics there is very little that can be done.

I attended the school board meeting last night, and was deeply saddened to observe parents who are unwilling to teach their children these facts but go beyond basic negligence and teach the opposite. It is child abuse at the very least.

Am I understanding correctly -- you think "there is no such thing as hate speech"? You consider that a "fact"?

Apparently.

I still want someone to explain why anyone should give a crap what the Arlington Parent Coalition says, or make me believe the "coalition" represents the viewpoint of more than one person.

I will grant them this: they are good at hoodwinking the local media:
https://wtop.com/arlington/2019/06/parents-students-react-to-arlington-public-schools-proposed-transgender-policy

"A member of the Arlington Parent Coalition shared a survey, showing most students feel their concerns are not being adequately heard in regards to the policy.

Of the 90 students surveyed, 87% said they oppose or strongly oppose the policy due to religious beliefs, the impact this could have on women’s athletics and the possibility of students who disagree with being stigmatized."

I'd love to see the methodology on THAT survey.... If it's not simply completely made up, I'm guessing they surveyed their fundamentalist church's kids...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP who said who cares what this group says or what is on next door. You call me a bigot! Dude, that is the problem. You automatically assume that anyone who isn't jumping up and down all over this is AGAINST YOU.

There are a lot of us out there who don't care whether you are gay, trans what ever. Marry and sleep with whomever you want. Live your life as a man or woman. Go for it.

Lots of us who want to support people who are trans. Some of us even have known and adored kids who are trans. That doesn't stop us from questioning what school board policies should be. That does not, and should not stop us from questioning how those policies would impact non-trans kids. You expect me and everyone else to adopt your version of the world hook, line and sinker. No independent or cautious thought. No consideration of others or anyone others. Nada.

I do not agree with people who believe in conversion therapy or that being gay, trans or whatever is morally wrong. I do want to support the trans community, but people like you make that very hard. Your tactics and name calling are a huge turn off and do harm to the cause.

You need people like me....stop alienating me.

I agree with this 100%. It’s the attitude that seems to be so prevalent nowadays when it comes to issues of diversity: if you’re not with us you’re against us. There is no shade of gray. And it is frustrating, especially for those of us who don’t have a lot of experience with trans adults or trans kids. I sure don’t and I’m still trying to think through the issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see us making any progress on this front. There are two things the sides would have to agree with.

1. There is no such thing as hate speech.
2. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness.

Until there is common ground on these two topics there is very little that can be done.

I attended the school board meeting last night, and was deeply saddened to observe parents who are unwilling to teach their children these facts but go beyond basic negligence and teach the opposite. It is child abuse at the very least.

Am I understanding correctly -- you think "there is no such thing as hate speech"? You consider that a "fact"?

Apparently.

I still want someone to explain why anyone should give a crap what the Arlington Parent Coalition says, or make me believe the "coalition" represents the viewpoint of more than one person.

I will grant them this: they are good at hoodwinking the local media:
https://wtop.com/arlington/2019/06/parents-students-react-to-arlington-public-schools-proposed-transgender-policy

"A member of the Arlington Parent Coalition shared a survey, showing most students feel their concerns are not being adequately heard in regards to the policy.

Of the 90 students surveyed, 87% said they oppose or strongly oppose the policy due to religious beliefs, the impact this could have on women’s athletics and the possibility of students who disagree with being stigmatized."

I'd love to see the methodology on THAT survey.... If it's not simply completely made up, I'm guessing they surveyed their fundamentalist church's kids...

I'm not the PP but I'll explain it to you. Those kids who answered the survey, regardless of how they were identified or whether they're influenced by their parents, count too. Okay, they're misguided or wrong or too religious or whatever. The fact is, they're students in APS too and they're NOT saying trans kids don't have a right to exist or should be bullied or mistreated. They're presumably just trying to understand how this policy fits with their own conceptions of privacy, religion, competition, and expression of their viewpoints. Why do they deserve to be run over in favor of the other set of kids demanding the policy that flies in the face of what the first kids belief in?

I assume your answer is, because they're bigoted. Well, that pretty much proves their point about being stigmatized if they disagree with the policy. You can think they're flat wrong and the new generation of racists if you want, but you can't deny that anyone who raises any question about this policy is slandered as a bigot.

You all can tell yourselves you're on the front lines of the new civil rights movement to validate your efforts here, but this is a difficult and nuanced issue. Treating people who disagree or simply don't have the experience with these issues as pariahs is not helping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see us making any progress on this front. There are two things the sides would have to agree with.

1. There is no such thing as hate speech.
2. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness.

Until there is common ground on these two topics there is very little that can be done.

I attended the school board meeting last night, and was deeply saddened to observe parents who are unwilling to teach their children these facts but go beyond basic negligence and teach the opposite. It is child abuse at the very least.

Am I understanding correctly -- you think "there is no such thing as hate speech"? You consider that a "fact"?

Apparently.

I still want someone to explain why anyone should give a crap what the Arlington Parent Coalition says, or make me believe the "coalition" represents the viewpoint of more than one person.

I will grant them this: they are good at hoodwinking the local media:
https://wtop.com/arlington/2019/06/parents-students-react-to-arlington-public-schools-proposed-transgender-policy

"A member of the Arlington Parent Coalition shared a survey, showing most students feel their concerns are not being adequately heard in regards to the policy.

Of the 90 students surveyed, 87% said they oppose or strongly oppose the policy due to religious beliefs, the impact this could have on women’s athletics and the possibility of students who disagree with being stigmatized."

I'd love to see the methodology on THAT survey.... If it's not simply completely made up, I'm guessing they surveyed their fundamentalist church's kids...

I'm not the PP but I'll explain it to you. Those kids who answered the survey, regardless of how they were identified or whether they're influenced by their parents, count too. Okay, they're misguided or wrong or too religious or whatever. The fact is, they're students in APS too and they're NOT saying trans kids don't have a right to exist or should be bullied or mistreated. They're presumably just trying to understand how this policy fits with their own conceptions of privacy, religion, competition, and expression of their viewpoints. Why do they deserve to be run over in favor of the other set of kids demanding the policy that flies in the face of what the first kids belief in?

I assume your answer is, because they're bigoted. Well, that pretty much proves their point about being stigmatized if they disagree with the policy. You can think they're flat wrong and the new generation of racists if you want, but you can't deny that anyone who raises any question about this policy is slandered as a bigot.

You all can tell yourselves you're on the front lines of the new civil rights movement to validate your efforts here, but this is a difficult and nuanced issue. Treating people who disagree or simply don't have the experience with these issues as pariahs is not helping.

NP - agreed. Nicely explained. (emphasis on "nicely")

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see us making any progress on this front. There are two things the sides would have to agree with.

1. There is no such thing as hate speech.
2. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness.

Until there is common ground on these two topics there is very little that can be done.

I attended the school board meeting last night, and was deeply saddened to observe parents who are unwilling to teach their children these facts but go beyond basic negligence and teach the opposite. It is child abuse at the very least.

Am I understanding correctly -- you think "there is no such thing as hate speech"? You consider that a "fact"?

I’m not the PP, but that is correct, there is only speech, not love or hate speech. When you label you sensor, but more importantly you teach your children that censorship of any speech is acceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see us making any progress on this front. There are two things the sides would have to agree with.

1. There is no such thing as hate speech.
2. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness.

Until there is common ground on these two topics there is very little that can be done.

I attended the school board meeting last night, and was deeply saddened to observe parents who are unwilling to teach their children these facts but go beyond basic negligence and teach the opposite. It is child abuse at the very least.

Am I understanding correctly -- you think "there is no such thing as hate speech"? You consider that a "fact"?

Apparently.

I still want someone to explain why anyone should give a crap what the Arlington Parent Coalition says, or make me believe the "coalition" represents the viewpoint of more than one person.

I will grant them this: they are good at hoodwinking the local media:
https://wtop.com/arlington/2019/06/parents-students-react-to-arlington-public-schools-proposed-transgender-policy

"A member of the Arlington Parent Coalition shared a survey, showing most students feel their concerns are not being adequately heard in regards to the policy.

Of the 90 students surveyed, 87% said they oppose or strongly oppose the policy due to religious beliefs, the impact this could have on women’s athletics and the possibility of students who disagree with being stigmatized."

I'd love to see the methodology on THAT survey.... If it's not simply completely made up, I'm guessing they surveyed their fundamentalist church's kids...

I'm not the PP but I'll explain it to you. Those kids who answered the survey, regardless of how they were identified or whether they're influenced by their parents, count too. Okay, they're misguided or wrong or too religious or whatever. The fact is, they're students in APS too and they're NOT saying trans kids don't have a right to exist or should be bullied or mistreated. They're presumably just trying to understand how this policy fits with their own conceptions of privacy, religion, competition, and expression of their viewpoints. Why do they deserve to be run over in favor of the other set of kids demanding the policy that flies in the face of what the first kids belief in?

I assume your answer is, because they're bigoted. Well, that pretty much proves their point about being stigmatized if they disagree with the policy. You can think they're flat wrong and the new generation of racists if you want, but you can't deny that anyone who raises any question about this policy is slandered as a bigot.

You all can tell yourselves you're on the front lines of the new civil rights movement to validate your efforts here, but this is a difficult and nuanced issue. Treating people who disagree or simply don't have the experience with these issues as pariahs is not helping.

+1 million

[Anonymous]

+2 million.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see us making any progress on this front. There are two things the sides would have to agree with.

1. There is no such thing as hate speech.
2. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness.

Until there is common ground on these two topics there is very little that can be done.

I attended the school board meeting last night, and was deeply saddened to observe parents who are unwilling to teach their children these facts but go beyond basic negligence and teach the opposite. It is child abuse at the very least.

Am I understanding correctly -- you think "there is no such thing as hate speech"? You consider that a "fact"?

Still waiting on an answer to this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not the PP but I'll explain it to you. Those kids who answered the survey, regardless of how they were identified or whether they're influenced by their parents, count too. Okay, they're misguided or wrong or too religious or whatever. The fact is, they're students in APS too and they're NOT saying trans kids don't have a right to exist or should be bullied or mistreated. They're presumably just trying to understand how this policy fits with their own conceptions of privacy, religion, competition, and expression of their viewpoints. Why do they deserve to be run over in favor of the other set of kids demanding the policy that flies in the face of what the first kids belief in?

I assume your answer is, because they're bigoted. Well, that pretty much proves their point about being stigmatized if they disagree with the policy. You can think they're flat wrong and the new generation of racists if you want, but you can't deny that anyone who raises any question about this policy is slandered as a bigot.

You all can tell yourselves you're on the front lines of the new civil rights movement to validate your efforts here, but this is a difficult and nuanced issue. Treating people who disagree or simply don't have the experience with these issues as pariahs is not helping.

No.

You don't get statistics.

You can't pick your own sample of people to answer a survey and say "97% of kids feel this way."

Yes, individual kids count. But picking a sample of people to survey of your choosing, because you know they'll answer a certain way, is meaningless.

There are 28,000 kids in APS.

Asking 90 of them from your church how they feel means absolutely nothing as far as understanding how a typical APS kid feels.

[Anonymous]

I put together a summary of the complaints against Arlington Parent Coalition web site here:

https://alien9115.wixsite.com/stop-apc

I hope this will help people/reporters searching for information recognize that their position is backed by fake "research" sourced from right-wing political groups, and not actual science.

It's frustrating that the local coverage gives them a bullhorn, since it's actually unclear that they represent anything more than the position of one person - "Maria Keffler, Organizer of The Arlington Parent Coalition," according to this article: https://www.localdvm.com/news/virginia/arlington-parent-coalition-says-aps-transgender-policy-is-troubling/

I've never seen any membership list, and I've never seen any other name than that one. But I can't deny she's done a great job of making a lot of noise.

So hopefully this will at least provide some reference and context for people searching for information about the organization in the future.

What I won't do is make make up another fake organization, say, the "Arlington Family Alliance", that presents itself as something more than one person's position.

I fully support Maria's right to fight for her position. What I don't support is her use of misleading/fake studies from think tanks and nationally recognized hate groups and fake surveys presented as data, and presenting herself as a "coalition" without revealing any information about the supposed families she claims to speak for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not the PP but I'll explain it to you. Those kids who answered the survey, regardless of how they were identified or whether they're influenced by their parents, count too. Okay, they're misguided or wrong or too religious or whatever. The fact is, they're students in APS too and they're NOT saying trans kids don't have a right to exist or should be bullied or mistreated. They're presumably just trying to understand how this policy fits with their own conceptions of privacy, religion, competition, and expression of their viewpoints. Why do they deserve to be run over in favor of the other set of kids demanding the policy that flies in the face of what the first kids belief in?

I assume your answer is, because they're bigoted. Well, that pretty much proves their point about being stigmatized if they disagree with the policy. You can think they're flat wrong and the new generation of racists if you want, but you can't deny that anyone who raises any question about this policy is slandered as a bigot.

You all can tell yourselves you're on the front lines of the new civil rights movement to validate your efforts here, but this is a difficult and nuanced issue. Treating people who disagree or simply don't have the experience with these issues as pariahs is not helping.

No.

You don't get statistics.

You can't pick your own sample of people to answer a survey and say "97% of kids feel this way."

Yes, individual kids count. But picking a sample of people to survey of your choosing, because you know they'll answer a certain way, is meaningless.

There are 28,000 kids in APS.

Asking 90 of them from your church how they feel means absolutely nothing as far as understanding how a typical APS kid feels.

PP again. I didn't say they were or were not a statistically significant number. I'm not sure even APC claimed that. By the way, that's not how APS runs its surveys either. Nor is your personal echo chamber statistically significant. The point is, they're still real kids in APS. They may, in fact, outnumber the kids who identify as trans or gender-fluid or other categories. I don't speak for APC and I'm not a member or affiliated with them, but you asked for an explanation and I gave it to you.

Ask Jeff if you think I'm sock-puppeting. I'm not. I'm posting from work and from home and I'm on enough VA schools threads that he can undoubtedly confirm. You should confront the fact that not everyone agrees with you, and try to come up with arguments to rebut those people. Echo chambers make people intellectually lazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
PP again. I didn't say they were or were not a statistically significant number. I'm not sure even APC claimed that. By the way, that's not how APS runs its surveys either. Nor is your personal echo chamber statistically significant. The point is, they're still real kids in APS. They may, in fact, outnumber the kids who identify as trans or gender-fluid or other categories. I don't speak for APC and I'm not a member or affiliated with them, but you asked for an explanation and I gave it to you.

Ask Jeff if you think I'm sock-puppeting. I'm not. I'm posting from work and from home and I'm on enough VA schools threads that he can undoubtedly confirm. You should confront the fact that not everyone agrees with you, and try to come up with arguments to rebut those people. Echo chambers make people intellectually lazy.

Did you read the article?

"A member of the Arlington Parent Coalition shared a survey, showing most students feel their concerns are not being adequately heard in regards to the policy.

Of the 90 students surveyed, 87% said they oppose or strongly oppose the policy due to religious beliefs, the impact this could have on women’s athletics and the possibility of students who disagree with being stigmatized"

"87% of 90 students" is not "most" of 28,000.

It's a lie. What's the point of a survey if it doesn't have a statistically meaningful methodology? What use is it to ask a bunch of people something when you already know they'll answer a certain way, because you only "surveyed" people who agree with you?

The point is deception, and that's exactly what Arlington Parent Coalition engages in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
PP again. I didn't say they were or were not a statistically significant number. I'm not sure even APC claimed that. By the way, that's not how APS runs its surveys either. Nor is your personal echo chamber statistically significant. The point is, they're still real kids in APS. They may, in fact, outnumber the kids who identify as trans or gender-fluid or other categories. I don't speak for APC and I'm not a member or affiliated with them, but you asked for an explanation and I gave it to you.

Ask Jeff if you think I'm sock-puppeting. I'm not. I'm posting from work and from home and I'm on enough VA schools threads that he can undoubtedly confirm. You should confront the fact that not everyone agrees with you, and try to come up with arguments to rebut those people. Echo chambers make people intellectually lazy.

Did you read the article?

"A member of the Arlington Parent Coalition shared a survey, showing most students feel their concerns are not being adequately heard in regards to the policy.

Of the 90 students surveyed, 87% said they oppose or strongly oppose the policy due to religious beliefs, the impact this could have on women’s athletics and the possibility of students who disagree with being stigmatized"

"87% of 90 students" is not "most" of 28,000.

It's a lie. What's the point of a survey if it doesn't have a statistically meaningful methodology? What use is it to ask a bunch of people something when you already know they'll answer a certain way, because you only "surveyed" people who agree with you?

The point is deception, and that's exactly what Arlington Parent Coalition engages in.

+1

They should be called out for spreading misinformation.

[Anonymous]

So who do you find to be a “legitimate” voice expressing concerns about transgender policies in schools? Is there anyone speaking out who is acceptable to you? It seems to me that you will label any opposition as phobic or hateful.