A shocking number of women are harassed, ignored, or mistreated during childbirth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This isn't a conversation about racism. It's a conversation about health care. Since we live in a society where there are huge disparities between races, every issue is going to have a racial aspect. So basically you're suggesting that we can't discuss public policy at all? How does that make sense?

I'm happy to be an ally and stay out of a conversation when it's clear that it's private (between black women or whatever). But this is DCUM, a general interest website.

It's a conversation about both. And public policy relates to both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Note that the article deals with perceived mistreatment bias based on race, not objectively demonstrated bias based on race. Whatever a woman's race she should get proper treatment, and diverting the discussion from treatment to perceived racial inequities not backed up by objective evidence does no one a service.

What would that even be? Asking health care providers, "Are you racist?", and if they say yes, that's "objectively-demonstrated bias based on race"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And people wonder why there has been a resurgence in planned home births! I'm ashamed for my own country when it comes to maternity care.

+1

Yet people have posted that their midwife brushed them off.

Everyone needs an advocate. A strong one. It's sad and frightening that some don't have that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And people wonder why there has been a resurgence in planned home births! I'm ashamed for my own country when it comes to maternity care.

+1

Yet people have posted that their midwife brushed them off.

Everyone needs an advocate. A strong one. It's sad and frightening that some don't have that.

I'd wager those posters gave birth in a hospital with a midwife practice that is bound by the same protocols and policies as any other provider. Therein lies the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And people wonder why there has been a resurgence in planned home births! I'm ashamed for my own country when it comes to maternity care.

+1

Yet people have posted that their midwife brushed them off.

Everyone needs an advocate. A strong one. It's sad and frightening that some don't have that.

I'd wager those posters gave birth in a hospital with a midwife practice that is bound by the same protocols and policies as any other provider. Therein lies the problem.

The first woman in the article?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Note that the article deals with perceived mistreatment bias based on race, not objectively demonstrated bias based on race. Whatever a woman's race she should get proper treatment, and diverting the discussion from treatment to perceived racial inequities not backed up by objective evidence does no one a service.

What would that even be? Asking health care providers, "Are you racist?", and if they say yes, that's "objectively-demonstrated bias based on race"?

the point is that this was a survey of perceptions of medical care, not a study of actual medical outcomes based on race. there are still issues sussing out what impacts are based on race and what are based on other factors; but obviously more objective than a survey. which isn't to say that a survey isn't a useful thing, just that it's no objective in terms of understanding actual outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And people wonder why there has been a resurgence in planned home births! I'm ashamed for my own country when it comes to maternity care.

+1

Yet people have posted that their midwife brushed them off.

Everyone needs an advocate. A strong one. It's sad and frightening that some don't have that.

I'd wager those posters gave birth in a hospital with a midwife practice that is bound by the same protocols and policies as any other provider. Therein lies the problem.

What women need is BETTER medical care, not less medical care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Everyone needs to listen to the experience of Black maternal mistreatment. Not just when you're also allowed to chime in. We need to understand this to our core and fight for better care for THEM. As a consequence, care for all mothers will improve. But if you insist on doing it the other way around, the disparity will still remain for Black mothers. Unfortunately, in reality women's rights only improve when White women complain.

I'm still not sure what your point is? Although Black women face additional barriers due to race, there are absolutely common issues in maternity care. Do you think white women should not take any action or voice any opinion at all, thereby not improving things for anyone? Seriously, what is your theory of change here?

[I'm the poster you're quoting, but not the PP that first asked white women to listen]

I think we (non-Black women) need to beat the drums about the poor care of Black mothers. Make that the narrative. When we advocate for better care for Black mothers, we can address both the issues of mothers being dismissed AND the racial disparities Black mothers face in health care. So everyone wins. The alternative, which is the status quo, is that white women will only complain because it affects them personally. So the change is solely for their benefit, and the racial disparity aspect is overlooked.

-signed: South Asian-American woman who works in public health and whose concerns were dismissed during childbirth to her and her baby's detriment

And you are precisely the reason we lose elections and Trump will be re-elected (which probably hurts black women more than anyone). Intersectionality does not mean that white women are barred from talking about their own experiences - that that their narratives are not valid and should be silenced (particularly with self-internalized sexist rhetoric "listen for once," gross). Intersectionality means that there are MANY narratives. ALL valid. NONE more important than the other. Talk about the experiences of poor women who are black; talk about the experiences of poor women who are white; talk about mistreatment of MC and UMC black women; talk about the mistreatment of MC and UMC white women. White women have complained throughout history - they have frequently not been listened to - because they are women. And if you want an intersectional movement - your starting position can't be white women's experiences don't matter. We have unions in large measure because of poor immigrant white women - are you arguing unions don't benefit black workers? Abortion is legal because, in part, because of white women plaintiffs. Are you saying access to abortion care doesn't benefit black women? White women frequently complain about all women - that's the status quo, actually. Do we need more emphasis on how WOC are mistreated (e.g., in the health care system, in the criminal justice system, in the immigration system)? Of course we do. But the voices of ALL women matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Everyone needs to listen to the experience of Black maternal mistreatment. Not just when you're also allowed to chime in. We need to understand this to our core and fight for better care for THEM. As a consequence, care for all mothers will improve. But if you insist on doing it the other way around, the disparity will still remain for Black mothers. Unfortunately, in reality women's rights only improve when White women complain.

I'm still not sure what your point is? Although Black women face additional barriers due to race, there are absolutely common issues in maternity care. Do you think white women should not take any action or voice any opinion at all, thereby not improving things for anyone? Seriously, what is your theory of change here?

[I'm the poster you're quoting, but not the PP that first asked white women to listen]

I think we (non-Black women) need to beat the drums about the poor care of Black mothers. Make that the narrative. When we advocate for better care for Black mothers, we can address both the issues of mothers being dismissed AND the racial disparities Black mothers face in health care. So everyone wins. The alternative, which is the status quo, is that white women will only complain because it affects them personally. So the change is solely for their benefit, and the racial disparity aspect is overlooked.

-signed: South Asian-American woman who works in public health and whose concerns were dismissed during childbirth to her and her baby's detriment

And you are precisely the reason we lose elections and Trump will be re-elected (which probably hurts black women more than anyone). Intersectionality does not mean that white women are barred from talking about their own experiences - that that their narratives are not valid and should be silenced (particularly with self-internalized sexist rhetoric "listen for once," gross). Intersectionality means that there are MANY narratives. ALL valid. NONE more important than the other. Talk about the experiences of poor women who are black; talk about the experiences of poor women who are white; talk about mistreatment of MC and UMC black women; talk about the mistreatment of MC and UMC white women. White women have complained throughout history - they have frequently not been listened to - because they are women. And if you want an intersectional movement - your starting position can't be white women's experiences don't matter. We have unions in large measure because of poor immigrant white women - are you arguing unions don't benefit black workers? Abortion is legal because, in part, because of white women plaintiffs. Are you saying access to abortion care doesn't benefit black women? White women frequently complain about all women - that's the status quo, actually. Do we need more emphasis on how WOC are mistreated (e.g., in the health care system, in the criminal justice system, in the immigration system)? Of course we do. But the voices of ALL women matter.

+1

[Anonymous]

I’m the WOC who apparently derailed the conversation by asking white women to step back.

No one is asking you to shut up. No one is silencing you. When it comes to conversations about women, your experience is already the default; we are exceptions.

In an article specifically highlighting disproportionate outcomes and what we experience, let’s let WOC, especially Black women, have the megaphone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the WOC who apparently derailed the conversation by asking white women to step back.

No one is asking you to shut up. No one is silencing you. When it comes to conversations about women, your experience is already the default; we are exceptions.

In an article specifically highlighting disproportionate outcomes and what we experience, let’s let WOC, especially Black women, have the megaphone.

The article was about WOMEN of all colors experiencing mistreatment during birth. Yes, women of color experience this at a higher rate. How does silencing white women from Sharing help stop this, exactly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the WOC who apparently derailed the conversation by asking white women to step back.

No one is asking you to shut up. No one is silencing you. When it comes to conversations about women, your experience is already the default; we are exceptions.

In an article specifically highlighting disproportionate outcomes and what we experience, let’s let WOC, especially Black women, have the megaphone.

Women having their needs dismissed because they are women is universal, black, white, rich, poor. It's for sure more common among the poor and WOC but that doesn't take away a white woman's experience. And we can get rich white woman to speak about their experiences to bring about change, great. I'm a WOC but in situations like this, especially when it's childbirth and when women are so vulnerable, I'm a woman first. Don't fight with other women, save that for the medical establishment that thinks we're all breeders without brains.

[Anonymous]

NP: I do think the issues are different between white women and WOC. The mistreatment and dismissal of issues gets WOC into serious health situations, including death. Whereas white women are more likely to leave dissatisfied with their provider, maybe mentally traumatized, but otherwise alive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP: I do think the issues are different between white women and WOC. The mistreatment and dismissal of issues gets WOC into serious health situations, including death. Whereas white women are more likely to leave dissatisfied with their provider, maybe mentally traumatized, but otherwise alive.

Well California halved maternal mortality through standardized procedures for all patients. While racism in health care is indisputable, I hate to see the conversation get stuck on the idea that the solutions can only be identity based.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP: I do think the issues are different between white women and WOC. The mistreatment and dismissal of issues gets WOC into serious health situations, including death. Whereas white women are more likely to leave dissatisfied with their provider, maybe mentally traumatized, but otherwise alive.

This is completely untrue. White women die too, didn’t you follow the story of the white NJ nurse whose husband was a doctor who died in the hospital where she worked after birth because they ignored her complications? The Lost Mothers series found plenty of women who died of all races. WOC experience mistreatment at higher rates. Yes, that’s true and unacceptable and no one is arguing otherwise. But the broader issue is that women of all colors experience this. And also, it’s not just about race - as the PP said, if you look at the intersectionality perspective, class, income, disability status, economic status, sexual orientation, education level, etc. all play a role in the treatment/mistreatment women receive in medical environments. Instead of nitpicking over differences, the lens need to be focusing on why the health care field and providers treat women so poorly.