Opinion | America’s Cities Are Unlivable. Blame Wealthy Liberals. - The New York Times

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree there are problems but most of this I'd lay at the feet of the GOP and their out of control spending on defense and huge deficits brought on by tax cuts for the wealthuy.

How does that have anything to do with the heavily blue cities and their housing affordability problems? I suspect you didn't read the article.

Zoning regulations are not a federal responsibility. They are local responsibilities.It has nothing to do with the GOP in Washington and out of control spending on defense and huge deficits.

The power to zone is wholly at local government levels. And zoning is what affects housing prices more than anything else. Just to use as an example: Bethesda is infamous for teardowns and replacing small starter homes with McMansions selling for 1+ million. That happens in part because zoning only allows SFH on those lots. If Montgomery County rezoned to allow SFH on a quarter acre lot to be replaced with rowhouses or apartments, you'd find a lot more affordable housing in Bethesda..... But can you imagine the uproar?

Sorry, but a lot of those people that would and do uproar are conservatives. MoCo may be dominated by Democrats, but those NIMBY's with the deepest pockets are often not liberal AT ALL.

Look at Chevy Chase Country Club that used a lot of money and power to try to scuttle the Purple line and higher density development near their club. You think they are "liberals"? They are not.

The problem isn't "liberal cities." It's those who have the money and power to tie up the system from making meaningful changes. San Francisco has actually been trying to increase density, but the wealthy NIMBY's keep suing and gumming up new policies in the courts. Here's a hint: they are NOT uniformly liberal. In fact, I would posit that they probably trend conservative, even in San Francisco.

+ 1

They might call themselves Democrats but on a local level, they don't practice what the party preaches. They don't want dense low income housing built near where they live and they don't want to share their school district's resources with other poor school districts. And they don't want poor kids being able to choose to come into affluent schools.

They're libertarians at best which is not a progressive party.

What is this shit? You're claiming they're not real Democrats even if they've always voted Democratic? You're just making excuses for the failures of people on your side of the political spectrum to tackle genuine issues. MoCo is heavily, predominately, overwhelmingly liberal as per voting records go. There is no excuse. The Nimby people are solidly liberal democrats. There's no avoiding this.

All the anti growth people I see in most major urban areas are hardcore Dems. Anti gentrification? Always Democrats. Anti tower blocks/skyscrapers? Always Democrats. Do you know why? Because Republicans don't live in the cities in any meaningful numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article isn’t about spreading around the wealth to smaller cities. It’s about seemingly “liberal” people routinely blocking proposals to change zoning laws to allow affordable housing - which brings the diversity they tell everyone they love - to their own neighborhoods.

This is why you shouldn’t judge rich liberals by what they say, but what they do. There are a lot of people out here calling Trump a racist that spend millions of dollars to live in rich, mostly white enclaves and do everything they can to keep their DCs away from schools with large populations of minority, low SES kids. They claim to love diversity, but do everything to avoid and fight it in their own lives.

Correction: they love the *right* kind of diversity. Obama as your neighbor? Fabulous. Working class white family that goes hunting on the weekend? Oh, god no!

We keep getting these posters claiming that they can't move to smaller cities because of jobs and I'm always puzzled because most smaller American cities are doing just fine. Jobs isn't the point of the article. It's really about a handful of certain cities becoming unaffordable, and yep, it's because it's very difficult to build large scale new housing to keep up with the demand, and a large part of that is due to NIMBYISM. IF DC was allowed to achieve the density of New York, it'd become a lot more affordable. But try demolishing blocks of historic rowhouses for tower blocks you only get angry screeches and protests.

Do you ever hang out with working class white families who hunt? They have zero desire to live in small, expensive, urban areas. They want land and privacy.

I like people who are working class and hunt. I'm happy to have them as my neighbors. But they do not proactively live in diverse urban communities. That's not their vibe.

Plenty of working class whites in inner suburbs of most cities. Take a trek up to Baltimore. Many go hunting on weekends. They drive out to Western Maryland.

The sneering Bethesda people would never condescend to live next to a hunting, fishing, shooting working class family because they're probably also Trump supporters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree there are problems but most of this I'd lay at the feet of the GOP and their out of control spending on defense and huge deficits brought on by tax cuts for the wealthuy.

How does that have anything to do with the heavily blue cities and their housing affordability problems? I suspect you didn't read the article.

Zoning regulations are not a federal responsibility. They are local responsibilities.It has nothing to do with the GOP in Washington and out of control spending on defense and huge deficits.

The power to zone is wholly at local government levels. And zoning is what affects housing prices more than anything else. Just to use as an example: Bethesda is infamous for teardowns and replacing small starter homes with McMansions selling for 1+ million. That happens in part because zoning only allows SFH on those lots. If Montgomery County rezoned to allow SFH on a quarter acre lot to be replaced with rowhouses or apartments, you'd find a lot more affordable housing in Bethesda..... But can you imagine the uproar?

Sorry, but a lot of those people that would and do uproar are conservatives. MoCo may be dominated by Democrats, but those NIMBY's with the deepest pockets are often not liberal AT ALL.



Look at Chevy Chase Country Club that used a lot of money and power to try to scuttle the Purple line and higher density development near their club. You think they are "liberals"? They are not.

The problem isn't "liberal cities." It's those who have the money and power to tie up the system from making meaningful changes. San Francisco has actually been trying to increase density, but the wealthy NIMBY's keep suing and gumming up new policies in the courts. Here's a hint: they are NOT uniformly liberal. In fact, I would posit that they probably trend conservative, even in San Francisco.

+ 1

They might call themselves Democrats but on a local level, they don't practice what the party preaches. They don't want dense low income housing built near where they live and they don't want to share their school district's resources with other poor school districts. And they don't want poor kids being able to choose to come into affluent schools.

They're libertarians at best which is not a progressive party.

What is this shit? You're claiming they're not real Democrats even if they've always voted Democratic? You're just making excuses for the failures of people on your side of the political spectrum to tackle genuine issues. MoCo is heavily, predominately, overwhelmingly liberal as per voting records go. There is no excuse. The Nimby people are solidly liberal democrats. There's no avoiding this.

All the anti growth people I see in most major urban areas are hardcore Dems. Anti gentrification? Always Democrats. Anti tower blocks/skyscrapers? Always Democrats. Do you know why? Because Republicans don't live in the cities in any meaningful numbers.

Concur. I was at a cocktail party yesterday evening and the hosts, who presently live in Edgemoore, were spouting off about the change in the Old Georgetown Road church's development plans (well publicized if anyone wants to search it). They said they were preparing their house for sale, that this was the straw that broke the camel's back. That project now looks to be a multi family nightmare on the corner of their neighborhood and they are worried about the low income ratio that Erlich and company will set aside, how it will affect Bethesda Elementary and hence, their property value. Funny thing, the guy is a zoning attorney, he knows where this is going and he wants nothing to do with it. Btw, he is a flaming Trump hating lib. Go figure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article isn’t about spreading around the wealth to smaller cities. It’s about seemingly “liberal” people routinely blocking proposals to change zoning laws to allow affordable housing - which brings the diversity they tell everyone they love - to their own neighborhoods.

This is why you shouldn’t judge rich liberals by what they say, but what they do. There are a lot of people out here calling Trump a racist that spend millions of dollars to live in rich, mostly white enclaves and do everything they can to keep their DCs away from schools with large populations of minority, low SES kids. They claim to love diversity, but do everything to avoid and fight it in their own lives.

Correction: they love the *right* kind of diversity. Obama as your neighbor? Fabulous. Working class white family that goes hunting on the weekend? Oh, god no!

We keep getting these posters claiming that they can't move to smaller cities because of jobs and I'm always puzzled because most smaller American cities are doing just fine. Jobs isn't the point of the article. It's really about a handful of certain cities becoming unaffordable, and yep, it's because it's very difficult to build large scale new housing to keep up with the demand, and a large part of that is due to NIMBYISM. IF DC was allowed to achieve the density of New York, it'd become a lot more affordable. But try demolishing blocks of historic rowhouses for tower blocks you only get angry screeches and protests.

Do you ever hang out with working class white families who hunt? They have zero desire to live in small, expensive, urban areas. They want land and privacy.

I like people who are working class and hunt. I'm happy to have them as my neighbors. But they do not proactively live in diverse urban communities. That's not their vibe.

Plenty of working class whites in inner suburbs of most cities. Take a trek up to Baltimore. Many go hunting on weekends. They drive out to Western Maryland.

The sneering Bethesda people would never condescend to live next to a hunting, fishing, shooting working class family because they're probably also Trump supporters.

I live in a Bethesda neighborhood, they are all DEMOCRATS! No hate lives here signs are all over their lawns and they wallow in taking their young daughters to whatever cause is the latest rally. Bethesda is predominantly Democrat.

[Anonymous]

Democrat doesn’t equal liberal. There are many conservative Democrats. They used to be called Blue Dogs I think. Many are wealthy. They may consistently vote for Democratic candidates, but may only back those that are moderate or openly conservative and they vote against many liberal policies such as funding for schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article isn’t about spreading around the wealth to smaller cities. It’s about seemingly “liberal” people routinely blocking proposals to change zoning laws to allow affordable housing - which brings the diversity they tell everyone they love - to their own neighborhoods.

This is why you shouldn’t judge rich liberals by what they say, but what they do. There are a lot of people out here calling Trump a racist that spend millions of dollars to live in rich, mostly white enclaves and do everything they can to keep their DCs away from schools with large populations of minority, low SES kids. They claim to love diversity, but do everything to avoid and fight it in their own lives.

Correction: they love the *right* kind of diversity. Obama as your neighbor? Fabulous. Working class white family that goes hunting on the weekend? Oh, god no!

We keep getting these posters claiming that they can't move to smaller cities because of jobs and I'm always puzzled because most smaller American cities are doing just fine. Jobs isn't the point of the article. It's really about a handful of certain cities becoming unaffordable, and yep, it's because it's very difficult to build large scale new housing to keep up with the demand, and a large part of that is due to NIMBYISM. IF DC was allowed to achieve the density of New York, it'd become a lot more affordable. But try demolishing blocks of historic rowhouses for tower blocks you only get angry screeches and protests.

Do you ever hang out with working class white families who hunt? They have zero desire to live in small, expensive, urban areas. They want land and privacy.

I like people who are working class and hunt. I'm happy to have them as my neighbors. But they do not proactively live in diverse urban communities. That's not their vibe.

Plenty of working class whites in inner suburbs of most cities. Take a trek up to Baltimore. Many go hunting on weekends. They drive out to Western Maryland.

The sneering Bethesda people would never condescend to live next to a hunting, fishing, shooting working class family because they're probably also Trump supporters.

I live in a Bethesda neighborhood, they are all DEMOCRATS! No hate lives here signs are all over their lawns and they wallow in taking their young daughters to whatever cause is the latest rally. Bethesda is predominantly Democrat.

The political picture is much more nuanced than you're stating. There are plenty of conservatives and moderates in Bethesda, my family included.

The fact of the matter is that the Chevy Chase Club (and village of CC) are some of the prime anti-development backers in the county. They use lawsuits to gum up the up-zoning process and to move forward on the Purple Line. They've donated heavily to politicians to stop development anywhere near the Village of CC. Do you really think the CCC is a bastion of liberal Democrats?

A lot of conservatives are registered as Democrats simply so they have a say in the Dem primary. The Republican party is dead in MoCo because the national GOP is a complete extremist freakshow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The US needs to simply spread out more. We have a HUGE country full of livable land, but we keep concentrating more and more people and jobs in the same locations.

I get it - who wants to move to *gasp* the mid-west, because there is nothing to do! It's a chicken/egg problem. People don't move to open areas of the country because there is nothing there so companies don't move there because talent is too hard to attract. But if companies don't move there, nothing gets developed that'd entice people to move.

Maybe there should be plans in place for a Marshall Plan for our own country. Develop huge swaths of the mid-West and South to attract more investment and development. Spread the wealth and population out more evenly throughout the country.

In the 21st century, people worldwide want to concentrate in cities because there are benefits to smart people all living in one place.

That's happening worldwide, not just in the US. You can't really reverse it. You can't turn Akron into Silicon Valley.

Moreover, Silicon Valley and the American tech economy is a major economic driver. You do NOT want to mess with SF, LA, Boston, NYC, Seattle, Chicago, Portland, DC, etc.. If you try to break them up just to fix the Senate-represents-empty-land problem, you may well destroy America's economic advantages.

The Chicagoland area is losing population faster than you can say "deepdish pizza." Indiana gains a net of about 54 Chicagoans every day. So...

[Anonymous]

They're libertarians at best which is not a progressive party.

Pushing for strict zoning regulations couldn't be farther from a libertarian point of view. Libertarians believe that you should be able to do whatever you want with your own property.

[Anonymous]

I'm going to say that the main opposition against low income housing is the schools. The way schools are currently graded and how that effects property value is big. No one wants their school to tank just because a low income housing project moves in next door.

I'm not sure how you fix that or separate schools from housing value.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to say that the main opposition against low income housing is the schools. The way schools are currently graded and how that effects property value is big. No one wants their school to tank just because a low income housing project moves in next door.

I'm not sure how you fix that or separate schools from housing value.

A lot of this stems from the crazy tax advantages for real estate in the tax code and that Americans have the vast majority of their net worth tied up in their home.

Why do Americans freak out about even a minor decrease in the value of their house? Because it's literally their piggy bank for retirement.

That anxiety is then transmitted in public policies that prop up the price of real estate: NIMBY'ism, resistance to up-zoning, opposition to nearby affordable housing, allowing poor kids to attend the local school, etc.

We can't rationally discuss this until we placate middle class anxieties about their future. That starts with the creation of a wrap-around safety net to ensure we all have access to healthcare and a dignified old age, regardless of means or color.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to say that the main opposition against low income housing is the schools. The way schools are currently graded and how that effects property value is big. No one wants their school to tank just because a low income housing project moves in next door.

I'm not sure how you fix that or separate schools from housing value.

A lot of this stems from the crazy tax advantages for real estate in the tax code and that Americans have the vast majority of their net worth tied up in their home.

Why do Americans freak out about even a minor decrease in the value of their house? Because it's literally their piggy bank for retirement.

That anxiety is then transmitted in public policies that prop up the price of real estate: NIMBY'ism, resistance to up-zoning, opposition to nearby affordable housing, allowing poor kids to attend the local school, etc.

We can't rationally discuss this until we placate middle class anxieties about their future. That starts with the creation of a wrap-around safety net to ensure we all have access to healthcare and a dignified old age, regardless of means or color.

Eh. Just look at the UK to see how wrong your assumptions are. They have the NHS that guarantees health care and you still get NIMBYSm all over the place.

People just don't like change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article isn’t about spreading around the wealth to smaller cities. It’s about seemingly “liberal” people routinely blocking proposals to change zoning laws to allow affordable housing - which brings the diversity they tell everyone they love - to their own neighborhoods.

This is why you shouldn’t judge rich liberals by what they say, but what they do. There are a lot of people out here calling Trump a racist that spend millions of dollars to live in rich, mostly white enclaves and do everything they can to keep their DCs away from schools with large populations of minority, low SES kids. They claim to love diversity, but do everything to avoid and fight it in their own lives.

Correction: they love the *right* kind of diversity. Obama as your neighbor? Fabulous. Working class white family that goes hunting on the weekend? Oh, god no!

We keep getting these posters claiming that they can't move to smaller cities because of jobs and I'm always puzzled because most smaller American cities are doing just fine. Jobs isn't the point of the article. It's really about a handful of certain cities becoming unaffordable, and yep, it's because it's very difficult to build large scale new housing to keep up with the demand, and a large part of that is due to NIMBYISM. IF DC was allowed to achieve the density of New York, it'd become a lot more affordable. But try demolishing blocks of historic rowhouses for tower blocks you only get angry screeches and protests.

Do you ever hang out with working class white families who hunt? They have zero desire to live in small, expensive, urban areas. They want land and privacy.

I like people who are working class and hunt. I'm happy to have them as my neighbors. But they do not proactively live in diverse urban communities. That's not their vibe.

Plenty of working class whites in inner suburbs of most cities. Take a trek up to Baltimore. Many go hunting on weekends. They drive out to Western Maryland.

The sneering Bethesda people would never condescend to live next to a hunting, fishing, shooting working class family because they're probably also Trump supporters.

I live in a Bethesda neighborhood, they are all DEMOCRATS! No hate lives here signs are all over their lawns and they wallow in taking their young daughters to whatever cause is the latest rally. Bethesda is predominantly Democrat.

The political picture is much more nuanced than you're stating. There are plenty of conservatives and moderates in Bethesda, my family included.

The fact of the matter is that the Chevy Chase Club (and village of CC) are some of the prime anti-development backers in the county. They use lawsuits to gum up the up-zoning process and to move forward on the Purple Line. They've donated heavily to politicians to stop development anywhere near the Village of CC. Do you really think the CCC is a bastion of liberal Democrats?

A lot of conservatives are registered as Democrats simply so they have a say in the Dem primary. The Republican party is dead in MoCo because the national GOP is a complete extremist freakshow.

There's a lot more to MoCo than the Chevy Chase Club and Chevy Chase. Is the Chevy Chase Club in Bethesda?

All I see are more excuses for the failures of Democrats to live up to what they are supposed to be in theory, because at the end of the day most Democrats are just as selfish, cold-hearted and greedy as Republicans. At least the Republicans aren't so hypocritical about it. Because they are supposed to be selfish and greedy. Some of you just can't stand the idea that liberal Democratic voters can be bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article isn’t about spreading around the wealth to smaller cities. It’s about seemingly “liberal” people routinely blocking proposals to change zoning laws to allow affordable housing - which brings the diversity they tell everyone they love - to their own neighborhoods.

This is why you shouldn’t judge rich liberals by what they say, but what they do. There are a lot of people out here calling Trump a racist that spend millions of dollars to live in rich, mostly white enclaves and do everything they can to keep their DCs away from schools with large populations of minority, low SES kids. They claim to love diversity, but do everything to avoid and fight it in their own lives.

Correction: they love the *right* kind of diversity. Obama as your neighbor? Fabulous. Working class white family that goes hunting on the weekend? Oh, god no!

We keep getting these posters claiming that they can't move to smaller cities because of jobs and I'm always puzzled because most smaller American cities are doing just fine. Jobs isn't the point of the article. It's really about a handful of certain cities becoming unaffordable, and yep, it's because it's very difficult to build large scale new housing to keep up with the demand, and a large part of that is due to NIMBYISM. IF DC was allowed to achieve the density of New York, it'd become a lot more affordable. But try demolishing blocks of historic rowhouses for tower blocks you only get angry screeches and protests.

Do you ever hang out with working class white families who hunt? They have zero desire to live in small, expensive, urban areas. They want land and privacy.

I like people who are working class and hunt. I'm happy to have them as my neighbors. But they do not proactively live in diverse urban communities. That's not their vibe.

Plenty of working class whites in inner suburbs of most cities. Take a trek up to Baltimore. Many go hunting on weekends. They drive out to Western Maryland.

The sneering Bethesda people would never condescend to live next to a hunting, fishing, shooting working class family because they're probably also Trump supporters.

I live in a Bethesda neighborhood, they are all DEMOCRATS! No hate lives here signs are all over their lawns and they wallow in taking their young daughters to whatever cause is the latest rally. Bethesda is predominantly Democrat.

The political picture is much more nuanced than you're stating. There are plenty of conservatives and moderates in Bethesda, my family included.

The fact of the matter is that the Chevy Chase Club (and village of CC) are some of the prime anti-development backers in the county. They use lawsuits to gum up the up-zoning process and to move forward on the Purple Line. They've donated heavily to politicians to stop development anywhere near the Village of CC. Do you really think the CCC is a bastion of liberal Democrats?

A lot of conservatives are registered as Democrats simply so they have a say in the Dem primary. The Republican party is dead in MoCo because the national GOP is a complete extremist freakshow.

There's a lot more to MoCo than the Chevy Chase Club and Chevy Chase. Is the Chevy Chase Club in Bethesda?

All I see are more excuses for the failures of Democrats to live up to what they are supposed to be in theory, because at the end of the day most Democrats are just as selfish, cold-hearted and greedy as Republicans. At least the Republicans aren't so hypocritical about it. Because they are supposed to be selfish and greedy. Some of you just can't stand the idea that liberal Democratic voters can be bad.

This isn't something to aspire to. I'm not sure why you're acting like it is. Am I supposed to be impressed that Republicans are "greedy and selfish"? I'm not. Are you saying we should all strive for greed and selfishness? In my opinion, that destroys communities. I care about my community. Do you?

Let me burst your logical fallacy: no Democrats are perfect. We are all imperfect. In fact, this is a concept that is taught in the major religions - this idea that we are fallible, but can strive for improvement. Ideals are just that: ideals.

Democrats are trying to improve the situation, but there's a lot of elements out of the control of politicians. Demand is surging faster than supply. The wheels of democracy grind slowly as laws and policies are challenged by incumbents.

If we were like China, the government could just suddenly show up one day to Chevy Chase with bulldozers and kick out the existing home owners to build apartments. But we are not China.

So what are YOUR solutions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well it is true that many (maybe most?) affluent liberals are hypocrites. "Tax the rich!!!" as long as the taxes don't extend down to me.

"Global warming is a huge crisis but don't build apartment buildings near my single family home"

etc. etc.

Oh please, you don't know what you are talking about. Ever heard of Patriotic Millionaires? Plenty of rich liberals are pushing for higher taxes for the wealthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to say that the main opposition against low income housing is the schools. The way schools are currently graded and how that effects property value is big. No one wants their school to tank just because a low income housing project moves in next door.

I'm not sure how you fix that or separate schools from housing value.

A lot of this stems from the crazy tax advantages for real estate in the tax code and that Americans have the vast majority of their net worth tied up in their home.

Why do Americans freak out about even a minor decrease in the value of their house? Because it's literally their piggy bank for retirement.

That anxiety is then transmitted in public policies that prop up the price of real estate: NIMBY'ism, resistance to up-zoning, opposition to nearby affordable housing, allowing poor kids to attend the local school, etc.

We can't rationally discuss this until we placate middle class anxieties about their future. That starts with the creation of a wrap-around safety net to ensure we all have access to healthcare and a dignified old age, regardless of means or color.

Eh. Just look at the UK to see how wrong your assumptions are. They have the NHS that guarantees health care and you still get NIMBYSm all over the place.

People just don't like change.

Historic preservation is a national level issue in the UK, via The National Trust.

London is happy to knock down old buildings and build high. The city has a crazy building boom over the last 10 years. The problem with London - as well as major coastal cities in the US - is that newcomers are outstripping their ability to build fast enough.