Someone made a remark about my sister’s career and it made me wonder ...

[Anonymous]

OP here: I won’t call her a scientist.

I’ll be proud of her accomplishment
I mean she is doing research in something so important

[Anonymous]

Lol cue all the insecure PhDs who need to place themselves above others because they didn’t get an MD and won’t be called Dr outside of academia. This area is so rife with insecure people who always want to know where you went to school and what you do and where you live. So happy I found a great group of people who harbor no snobbery. OP, ignore idiots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Education isn’t a social science either. I know scientists thinks social science is a softer BSy category, but it doesn’t actually encompass everything else in the world...

While not everyone categorizes it as a social science, there are some that do. See here. I know that Wikipedia isn't the be all and end all, but here are a couple of references where it has been categorized as a social science:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_science
https://blogs.harvard.edu/factual/is-education-a-social-science/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a PhD in a social science (economics). I would never call myself a scientist. I think it is pretty clear what people mean by the term scientist. Computer science might be as far as I would go.

First, OP should call her sister a social scientist. Her achievement is commendable and respectable, but mislabeling doesn't help her receive that respect. Modern colloquial use of "science" and "scientist" without an adjective is synonymous with "hard science" or "hard scientist". The common understanding is this includes subjects like Physics, Biology, Chemistry, etc. These are typically subjects in which the rules/laws of the subject are bound and constrained. Researchers here discover the way the natural laws of these subjects behave and govern the topic.

The social sciences are no less respectable, but it is important to classify so that people understand where her achievements lie. No one would call an economist, a statistician, a psychologist, a linguist, or many other graduates in the social sciences, a scientist, so neither would you call a specialist in education. However, calling her a social scientist then categorizes her into the realm of subjects where people create paradigms or ways to process information differently. There are no hard laws in the social sciences. The subject matter is more nebulous and subject to change, but it is still important to study and create rules to analyze and achieve. The closest that a social science comes to a hard science is in science fiction. In Isaac Asimov's Foundation series, in the future, a man named Hari Seldon, uses macro social sciences to create psychohistory and uses a combination of history, statistics, and sociology to predict the behavior or large masses of people, basically quantifying human behavior of large groups. He uses it to predict key historic events with an unbelievable accuracy until the development of an anomaly that did not fit the large scale social models.

As for the PP above, I personally would not categorize Computer Science as a science. Computer science is a lot closer to an Engineering subject than a Science subject. There are a few at the forefront of computer science who are doing research into developing new technology, but the vast majority of computer science is applied science which is usually categorized as Engineering rather than Science. And I say this as a person with a Computer Engineering degree (earned before my college had a Computer Science department/degree).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How often is this really going to come up in conversation? Do you really need to be discussing your sisters degree with strangers?

I am proud of her so yes.

[Anonymous]

This situation doesn't feel real to me. I'm proud of my sister, but strangers have no idea what I do for a living, let alone my sister.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can you explain how PhD in education works? Like, was your sister's PhD free like other PhD programs or did she have to pay and take out loans to progress?

I met a PhD in human resources (or something similar) recently and she basically admitted she was just a career student and was going into HR for local gov. I have no idea why she got or needed a PhD. And I didn't want to seem rude asking her if she had to pay for her PhD.

She had to do research and teach while working on her PhD

It’s “free” becAuse although she received a stipend she had to do
Work for the university such as research on top
Of her course load and dissertation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This situation doesn't feel real to me. I'm proud of my sister, but strangers have no idea what I do for a living, let alone my sister.

Our was is dyslexic so I like discussing her work to bring awareness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Education isn’t a social science either. I know scientists thinks social science is a softer BSy category, but it doesn’t actually encompass everything else in the world...

Education is a subject, not a method. You can do educational research that is social science, even if not all educational research is. I know people who do ethnography, psychology, and/or demography of education, they are social scientists. And for better or for worse what do you think all the quantitative assessment going on in schools is attempting to do?

-a social scientist

By your definition shouldn’t she be considered a scientist ?
She’s doing educational research. Her PhD is in education with a focus in literacy- early childhood

Social scientist but couldn’t I just say scientist ? What’s the big deal

Of course, you can say scientist. But, people will laugh, mock you, and believe you are putting on airs. Because, the vast majority of people out there don't regard education researchers as scientists.

BTW, you can call her an astronaut if you want - but that doesn't make it so.

This. My husband is an scientist. That’s his job title. His PhD is in engineering. Technically he could ask people to call him Dr. but he would never do that because it’s confusing (he is not a medical Dr) and pretentious (he is not in academia). Even when he was doing post-doc research at a university, no one called him Dr. And he refers to himself as a scientist or a researcher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Education isn’t a social science either. I know scientists thinks social science is a softer BSy category, but it doesn’t actually encompass everything else in the world...

Education is a subject, not a method. You can do educational research that is social science, even if not all educational research is. I know people who do ethnography, psychology, and/or demography of education, they are social scientists. And for better or for worse what do you think all the quantitative assessment going on in schools is attempting to do?

-a social scientist

By your definition shouldn’t she be considered a scientist ?
She’s doing educational research. Her PhD is in education with a focus in literacy- early childhood

Social scientist but couldn’t I just say scientist ? What’s the big deal

Social scientist PP here. First off, because as this thread shows, most people hear "scientist" and think it means physical scientist, and physical scientists get all butthurt about it. Second, because there are actual differences in how you can apply the scientific method to people, so social science is a real thing, not just a "lesser than" label. Calling something social science, in my mind, isn't calling it "soft" or "less real," it's identifying a different kind of empirical research. It's not an insult, or I'd be disrespecting my own PhD!

Of course you believe that. You kind of have to.

Others . . . disagree.

Well I'm glad you came in here to let me know. Can't let a social scientist walk around NOT feeling inferior, amirite?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:
Education is not regarded as a traditional, hard science, like Biology, Physics or Chemistry or Medicine. My husband and I are research scientists in biomedical fields (MD/ PhD), and it would never occur to us to consider Education a science, even though it uses statistics and data analysis. Lots of fields use statistics and data analysis nowadays.

Surely you knew that, OP. Why set yourself up for mockery?

And congratulations to your sister.

OP here: She has a PHD!!
She literally added new research to her niche
validity in her research is something she values

She had to know stats and both qualitative and quantitative
Methods

I don’t get why such disrespect. She worked hard!
At the core
Of her empirical research is the Scientific method
hence why she too considers herself a scientist

PP you replied to. I was trying to be nice, but since you're asking for it -

1. A PhD can be had in any academic field, including non-scientific ones.
2. Research is always worthy and admirable, whichever field it is, whether it's science or not.
3. You are confusing researcher with scientist.
4. No one is disrespecting your sister and her achievements, and furthermore...
5. We are so glad someone has brains in the family.

except phd in ed requires no brain power. just time and $.

This.
And I have one.

You as someone who holds a doctorate in Ed is saying this ? Why

Also, the college paid for her to go school
She had a stipend

I said this because it is not that rigorous of a degree. It is the least demanding PhD you can earn. My cousin has a PhD in physics. He is a legit PhD and scientist. I am not.
The university paid for his tuition as well as his salary as an instructor/researcher while he earned his degree. This is not typical for a PhD in Education ( your sister’s experience might be different )
I can still be bad ass but I am not a scientist. I would be embarrassed to learn that any of my sisters were gushing about my degree or career in the terms you describe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How often is this really going to come up in conversation? Do you really need to be discussing your sisters degree with strangers?

I am proud of her so yes.

This is where you are making a mistake.
Also agree with pp, this feels odd, immature and insecure. I have four sisters with various advanced degrees and can’t imagine a conversation like the one OP describes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you made this up OP. A doctorate in education is not a PhD. It's an ED.D

Except when it’s a PhD. Thanks for playing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here: I won’t call her a scientist.

I’ll be proud of her accomplishment
I mean she is doing research in something so important

That works! Go for it, OP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lol cue all the insecure PhDs who need to place themselves above others because they didn’t get an MD and won’t be called Dr outside of academia. This area is so rife with insecure people who always want to know where you went to school and what you do and where you live. So happy I found a great group of people who harbor no snobbery. OP, ignore idiots.

is that you again? many PhD programs are more selective than most MD programs.