Seminary Dean eschews resurrection

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen this Kristof Easter interview in the New York Times? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/opinion/sunday/christian-easter-serene-jones.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

He interviews the dean of Union Theological Seminary, who is a United Church of Christ minister and a former Yale professor who doesn’t believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection and isn’t sure about heaven. Still, she considers herself a Christian.

What do you think?

Just like you can be a Christian and not necessarily believe that the Earth has been created in 7 days.
Why is it so important how Jesus was created or born or Mary ditto? The most important is the message of love. EVANGELIA.
Love one another. Who cares about the small stuff?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen this Kristof Easter interview in the New York Times? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/opinion/sunday/christian-easter-serene-jones.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

He interviews the dean of Union Theological Seminary, who is a United Church of Christ minister and a former Yale professor who doesn’t believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection and isn’t sure about heaven. Still, she considers herself a Christian.

What do you think?

Just like you can be a Christian and not necessarily believe that the Earth has been created in 7 days.
Why is it so important how Jesus was created or born or Mary ditto? The most important is the message of love. EVANGELIA.
Love one another. Who cares about the small stuff?

Its one thing to believe that the earth wasn’t created in a literal 7 days, but it’s another to deny the virgin birth, resurrection, miracles, the reality of heaven and hell, eternal destiny of the soul, belief in Jesus Christ as means to salvation, all while being a CHRISTIAN minister.

To nonchristians Easter is just a symbol of love, rebirth, renewal, and that’s fine because they don’t believe in God or the Bible. So of course Easter is symbolic for them.

But for Christians it means a lot more. It means a LITERAL resurrection. It has to or Christians have no salvation. If Jesus didn’t literally conquer death and pay for our sins, all of Christianity is pointless. Evangelism is pointless. The Bible is pointless. Being a Christian is pointless then. So there HAS to be a literal resurrection for a Christian, it shouldn’t be just “small stuff.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen this Kristof Easter interview in the New York Times? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/opinion/sunday/christian-easter-serene-jones.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

He interviews the dean of Union Theological Seminary, who is a United Church of Christ minister and a former Yale professor who doesn’t believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection and isn’t sure about heaven. Still, she considers herself a Christian.

What do you think?

Just like you can be a Christian and not necessarily believe that the Earth has been created in 7 days.
Why is it so important how Jesus was created or born or Mary ditto? The most important is the message of love. EVANGELIA.
Love one another. Who cares about the small stuff?

If the most important thing is the message of Love, then Jesus himself isn't needed -- just the message is enough. There are plenty of loving people who are not Christians, yet according to the Christian religion, they will be going to hell. I know a lot of Christian don't believe that (with the Dean as an example), but it is a central Christian belief, just like the message of Love.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen this Kristof Easter interview in the New York Times? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/opinion/sunday/christian-easter-serene-jones.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

He interviews the dean of Union Theological Seminary, who is a United Church of Christ minister and a former Yale professor who doesn’t believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection and isn’t sure about heaven. Still, she considers herself a Christian.

What do you think?

Just like you can be a Christian and not necessarily believe that the Earth has been created in 7 days.
Why is it so important how Jesus was created or born or Mary ditto? The most important is the message of love. EVANGELIA.
Love one another. Who cares about the small stuff?

Its one thing to believe that the earth wasn’t created in a literal 7 days, but it’s another to deny the virgin birth, resurrection, miracles, the reality of heaven and hell, eternal destiny of the soul, belief in Jesus Christ as means to salvation, all while being a CHRISTIAN minister.

To nonchristians Easter is just a symbol of love, rebirth, renewal, and that’s fine because they don’t believe in God or the Bible. So of course Easter is symbolic for them.

But for Christians it means a lot more. It means a LITERAL resurrection. It has to or Christians have no salvation. If Jesus didn’t literally conquer death and pay for our sins, all of Christianity is pointless. Evangelism is pointless. The Bible is pointless. Being a Christian is pointless then. So there HAS to be a literal resurrection for a Christian, it shouldn’t be just “small stuff.”

And for a lot of Christians (people like the Dean excepted) salvation means everlasting life in heaven, with Jesus, his father, God, and if you're Catholic, the blessed virgin Mary, whom Catholics believe also ascended to heaven (but they call it assumption, not ascension).

Without the salvation offered by believing in Jesus's ascension, there is also no hell, where people who don't believe in Jesus go to suffer eternally, for refusing to believe in the salvation that Jesus offered.

It's true that some people never even learn about Jesus while they're alive, so can't make the decision to believe or not, but with the work of missionaries and modern communication, more and more people are given the choice between believing/not believing, heaven/hell.

What's happening though, is that belief in the resurrection is declining! Deans of Christian seminaries don't believe. People who were raised in Christianity reject it and don't teach it to their children. Other self-described Christians don't think belief in the literal resurrection is vital to being Christian.

They won't find out if they're right until after they're dead, but it's obviously a chance they are willing to take.

[Anonymous]

What’s OP’s point, that since there is a heretic at a seminary, that heresy is fine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen this Kristof Easter interview in the New York Times? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/opinion/sunday/christian-easter-serene-jones.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

He interviews the dean of Union Theological Seminary, who is a United Church of Christ minister and a former Yale professor who doesn’t believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection and isn’t sure about heaven. Still, she considers herself a Christian.

What do you think?

Just like you can be a Christian and not necessarily believe that the Earth has been created in 7 days.
Why is it so important how Jesus was created or born or Mary ditto? The most important is the message of love. EVANGELIA.
Love one another. Who cares about the small stuff?

Its one thing to believe that the earth wasn’t created in a literal 7 days, but it’s another to deny the virgin birth, resurrection, miracles, the reality of heaven and hell, eternal destiny of the soul, belief in Jesus Christ as means to salvation, all while being a CHRISTIAN minister.

To nonchristians Easter is just a symbol of love, rebirth, renewal, and that’s fine because they don’t believe in God or the Bible. So of course Easter is symbolic for them.

But for Christians it means a lot more. It means a LITERAL resurrection. It has to or Christians have no salvation. If Jesus didn’t literally conquer death and pay for our sins, all of Christianity is pointless. Evangelism is pointless. The Bible is pointless. Being a Christian is pointless then. So there HAS to be a literal resurrection for a Christian, it shouldn’t be just “small stuff.”

And for a lot of Christians (people like the Dean excepted) salvation means everlasting life in heaven, with Jesus, his father, God, and if you're Catholic, the blessed virgin Mary, whom Catholics believe also ascended to heaven (but they call it assumption, not ascension).

Without the salvation offered by believing in Jesus's ascension, there is also no hell, where people who don't believe in Jesus go to suffer eternally, for refusing to believe in the salvation that Jesus offered.

It's true that some people never even learn about Jesus while they're alive, so can't make the decision to believe or not, but with the work of missionaries and modern communication, more and more people are given the choice between believing/not believing, heaven/hell.

What's happening though, is that belief in the resurrection is declining! Deans of Christian seminaries don't believe. People who were raised in Christianity reject it and don't teach it to their children. Other self-described Christians don't think belief in the literal resurrection is vital to being Christian.

They won't find out if they're right until after they're dead, but it's obviously a chance they are willing to take.

+1. I think these people like the dean are more interested in politicizing Jesus and morphing him into just a regular guy with nice happy feeling messages, rather than actually understanding why he came to earth in the first place, or the whole point of Christianity.

Just goes to show that not everyone who calls themselves Christian are Christian, even deans of theological seminaries. You have to be very aware and discerning of false teachers these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen this Kristof Easter interview in the New York Times? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/opinion/sunday/christian-easter-serene-jones.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

He interviews the dean of Union Theological Seminary, who is a United Church of Christ minister and a former Yale professor who doesn’t believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection and isn’t sure about heaven. Still, she considers herself a Christian.

What do you think?

Just like you can be a Christian and not necessarily believe that the Earth has been created in 7 days.
Why is it so important how Jesus was created or born or Mary ditto? The most important is the message of love. EVANGELIA.
Love one another. Who cares about the small stuff?

Its one thing to believe that the earth wasn’t created in a literal 7 days, but it’s another to deny the virgin birth, resurrection, miracles, the reality of heaven and hell, eternal destiny of the soul, belief in Jesus Christ as means to salvation, all while being a CHRISTIAN minister.

To nonchristians Easter is just a symbol of love, rebirth, renewal, and that’s fine because they don’t believe in God or the Bible. So of course Easter is symbolic for them.

But for Christians it means a lot more. It means a LITERAL resurrection. It has to or Christians have no salvation. If Jesus didn’t literally conquer death and pay for our sins, all of Christianity is pointless. Evangelism is pointless. The Bible is pointless. Being a Christian is pointless then. So there HAS to be a literal resurrection for a Christian, it shouldn’t be just “small stuff.”

And for a lot of Christians (people like the Dean excepted) salvation means everlasting life in heaven, with Jesus, his father, God, and if you're Catholic, the blessed virgin Mary, whom Catholics believe also ascended to heaven (but they call it assumption, not ascension).

Without the salvation offered by believing in Jesus's ascension, there is also no hell, where people who don't believe in Jesus go to suffer eternally, for refusing to believe in the salvation that Jesus offered.

It's true that some people never even learn about Jesus while they're alive, so can't make the decision to believe or not, but with the work of missionaries and modern communication, more and more people are given the choice between believing/not believing, heaven/hell.

What's happening though, is that belief in the resurrection is declining! Deans of Christian seminaries don't believe. People who were raised in Christianity reject it and don't teach it to their children. Other self-described Christians don't think belief in the literal resurrection is vital to being Christian.

They won't find out if they're right until after they're dead, but it's obviously a chance they are willing to take.

+1. I think these people like the dean are more interested in politicizing Jesus and morphing him into just a regular guy with nice happy feeling messages, rather than actually understanding why he came to earth in the first place, or the whole point of Christianity.

Just goes to show that not everyone who calls themselves Christian are Christian, even deans of theological seminaries. You have to be very aware and discerning of false teachers these days.

I've heard no call for her to resign her post, her ideas might be pretty mainstream.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen this Kristof Easter interview in the New York Times? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/opinion/sunday/christian-easter-serene-jones.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

He interviews the dean of Union Theological Seminary, who is a United Church of Christ minister and a former Yale professor who doesn’t believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection and isn’t sure about heaven. Still, she considers herself a Christian.

What do you think?

Just like you can be a Christian and not necessarily believe that the Earth has been created in 7 days.
Why is it so important how Jesus was created or born or Mary ditto? The most important is the message of love. EVANGELIA.
Love one another. Who cares about the small stuff?

Its one thing to believe that the earth wasn’t created in a literal 7 days, but it’s another to deny the virgin birth, resurrection, miracles, the reality of heaven and hell, eternal destiny of the soul, belief in Jesus Christ as means to salvation, all while being a CHRISTIAN minister.

To nonchristians Easter is just a symbol of love, rebirth, renewal, and that’s fine because they don’t believe in God or the Bible. So of course Easter is symbolic for them.

But for Christians it means a lot more. It means a LITERAL resurrection. It has to or Christians have no salvation. If Jesus didn’t literally conquer death and pay for our sins, all of Christianity is pointless. Evangelism is pointless. The Bible is pointless. Being a Christian is pointless then. So there HAS to be a literal resurrection for a Christian, it shouldn’t be just “small stuff.”

And for a lot of Christians (people like the Dean excepted) salvation means everlasting life in heaven, with Jesus, his father, God, and if you're Catholic, the blessed virgin Mary, whom Catholics believe also ascended to heaven (but they call it assumption, not ascension).

Without the salvation offered by believing in Jesus's ascension, there is also no hell, where people who don't believe in Jesus go to suffer eternally, for refusing to believe in the salvation that Jesus offered.

It's true that some people never even learn about Jesus while they're alive, so can't make the decision to believe or not, but with the work of missionaries and modern communication, more and more people are given the choice between believing/not believing, heaven/hell.

What's happening though, is that belief in the resurrection is declining! Deans of Christian seminaries don't believe. People who were raised in Christianity reject it and don't teach it to their children. Other self-described Christians don't think belief in the literal resurrection is vital to being Christian.

They won't find out if they're right until after they're dead, but it's obviously a chance they are willing to take.

+1. I think these people like the dean are more interested in politicizing Jesus and morphing him into just a regular guy with nice happy feeling messages, rather than actually understanding why he came to earth in the first place, or the whole point of Christianity.

Just goes to show that not everyone who calls themselves Christian are Christian, even deans of theological seminaries. You have to be very aware and discerning of false teachers these days.

I've heard no call for her to resign her post, her ideas might be pretty mainstream.

That doesn’t make them correct. It’s not a popular option poll. Jesus is clear that there are many, many who will claim to follow him but will be “spewn out” by Him because of false teachings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen this Kristof Easter interview in the New York Times? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/opinion/sunday/christian-easter-serene-jones.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

He interviews the dean of Union Theological Seminary, who is a United Church of Christ minister and a former Yale professor who doesn’t believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection and isn’t sure about heaven. Still, she considers herself a Christian.

What do you think?

Just like you can be a Christian and not necessarily believe that the Earth has been created in 7 days.
Why is it so important how Jesus was created or born or Mary ditto? The most important is the message of love. EVANGELIA.
Love one another. Who cares about the small stuff?

Its one thing to believe that the earth wasn’t created in a literal 7 days, but it’s another to deny the virgin birth, resurrection, miracles, the reality of heaven and hell, eternal destiny of the soul, belief in Jesus Christ as means to salvation, all while being a CHRISTIAN minister.

To nonchristians Easter is just a symbol of love, rebirth, renewal, and that’s fine because they don’t believe in God or the Bible. So of course Easter is symbolic for them.

But for Christians it means a lot more. It means a LITERAL resurrection. It has to or Christians have no salvation. If Jesus didn’t literally conquer death and pay for our sins, all of Christianity is pointless. Evangelism is pointless. The Bible is pointless. Being a Christian is pointless then. So there HAS to be a literal resurrection for a Christian, it shouldn’t be just “small stuff.”

And for a lot of Christians (people like the Dean excepted) salvation means everlasting life in heaven, with Jesus, his father, God, and if you're Catholic, the blessed virgin Mary, whom Catholics believe also ascended to heaven (but they call it assumption, not ascension).

Without the salvation offered by believing in Jesus's ascension, there is also no hell, where people who don't believe in Jesus go to suffer eternally, for refusing to believe in the salvation that Jesus offered.

It's true that some people never even learn about Jesus while they're alive, so can't make the decision to believe or not, but with the work of missionaries and modern communication, more and more people are given the choice between believing/not believing, heaven/hell.

What's happening though, is that belief in the resurrection is declining! Deans of Christian seminaries don't believe. People who were raised in Christianity reject it and don't teach it to their children. Other self-described Christians don't think belief in the literal resurrection is vital to being Christian.

They won't find out if they're right until after they're dead, but it's obviously a chance they are willing to take.

+1. I think these people like the dean are more interested in politicizing Jesus and morphing him into just a regular guy with nice happy feeling messages, rather than actually understanding why he came to earth in the first place, or the whole point of Christianity.

Just goes to show that not everyone who calls themselves Christian are Christian, even deans of theological seminaries. You have to be very aware and discerning of false teachers these days.

I've heard no call for her to resign her post, her ideas might be pretty mainstream.

That doesn’t make them correct. It’s not a popular option poll. Jesus is clear that there are many, many who will claim to follow him but will be “spewn out” by Him because of false teachings

They may not be correct, but they are having an enormous influence - and no human force, so far, is impeding them. Is there anything in the Bible about when or how they will be spewn out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen this Kristof Easter interview in the New York Times? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/opinion/sunday/christian-easter-serene-jones.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

He interviews the dean of Union Theological Seminary, who is a United Church of Christ minister and a former Yale professor who doesn’t believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection and isn’t sure about heaven. Still, she considers herself a Christian.

What do you think?

Just like you can be a Christian and not necessarily believe that the Earth has been created in 7 days.
Why is it so important how Jesus was created or born or Mary ditto? The most important is the message of love. EVANGELIA.
Love one another. Who cares about the small stuff?

Its one thing to believe that the earth wasn’t created in a literal 7 days, but it’s another to deny the virgin birth, resurrection, miracles, the reality of heaven and hell, eternal destiny of the soul, belief in Jesus Christ as means to salvation, all while being a CHRISTIAN minister.

To nonchristians Easter is just a symbol of love, rebirth, renewal, and that’s fine because they don’t believe in God or the Bible. So of course Easter is symbolic for them.

But for Christians it means a lot more. It means a LITERAL resurrection. It has to or Christians have no salvation. If Jesus didn’t literally conquer death and pay for our sins, all of Christianity is pointless. Evangelism is pointless. The Bible is pointless. Being a Christian is pointless then. So there HAS to be a literal resurrection for a Christian, it shouldn’t be just “small stuff.”

And for a lot of Christians (people like the Dean excepted) salvation means everlasting life in heaven, with Jesus, his father, God, and if you're Catholic, the blessed virgin Mary, whom Catholics believe also ascended to heaven (but they call it assumption, not ascension).

Without the salvation offered by believing in Jesus's ascension, there is also no hell, where people who don't believe in Jesus go to suffer eternally, for refusing to believe in the salvation that Jesus offered.

It's true that some people never even learn about Jesus while they're alive, so can't make the decision to believe or not, but with the work of missionaries and modern communication, more and more people are given the choice between believing/not believing, heaven/hell.

What's happening though, is that belief in the resurrection is declining! Deans of Christian seminaries don't believe. People who were raised in Christianity reject it and don't teach it to their children. Other self-described Christians don't think belief in the literal resurrection is vital to being Christian.

They won't find out if they're right until after they're dead, but it's obviously a chance they are willing to take.

+1. I think these people like the dean are more interested in politicizing Jesus and morphing him into just a regular guy with nice happy feeling messages, rather than actually understanding why he came to earth in the first place, or the whole point of Christianity.

Just goes to show that not everyone who calls themselves Christian are Christian, even deans of theological seminaries. You have to be very aware and discerning of false teachers these days.

I've heard no call for her to resign her post, her ideas might be pretty mainstream.

That doesn’t make them correct. It’s not a popular option poll. Jesus is clear that there are many, many who will claim to follow him but will be “spewn out” by Him because of false teachings

They may not be correct, but they are having an enormous influence - and no human force, so far, is impeding them. Is there anything in the Bible about when or how they will be spewn out?

I don’t know any verses about God spewing out false teachers, but I know for a fact that at the judgement, God will say to them “depart from me I never knew you”. It isn’t a guarantee that false teachers will be called out during their life, but they will face judgement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen this Kristof Easter interview in the New York Times? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/opinion/sunday/christian-easter-serene-jones.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

He interviews the dean of Union Theological Seminary, who is a United Church of Christ minister and a former Yale professor who doesn’t believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection and isn’t sure about heaven. Still, she considers herself a Christian.

What do you think?

Just like you can be a Christian and not necessarily believe that the Earth has been created in 7 days.
Why is it so important how Jesus was created or born or Mary ditto? The most important is the message of love. EVANGELIA.
Love one another. Who cares about the small stuff?

Its one thing to believe that the earth wasn’t created in a literal 7 days, but it’s another to deny the virgin birth, resurrection, miracles, the reality of heaven and hell, eternal destiny of the soul, belief in Jesus Christ as means to salvation, all while being a CHRISTIAN minister.

To nonchristians Easter is just a symbol of love, rebirth, renewal, and that’s fine because they don’t believe in God or the Bible. So of course Easter is symbolic for them.

But for Christians it means a lot more. It means a LITERAL resurrection. It has to or Christians have no salvation. If Jesus didn’t literally conquer death and pay for our sins, all of Christianity is pointless. Evangelism is pointless. The Bible is pointless. Being a Christian is pointless then. So there HAS to be a literal resurrection for a Christian, it shouldn’t be just “small stuff.”

And for a lot of Christians (people like the Dean excepted) salvation means everlasting life in heaven, with Jesus, his father, God, and if you're Catholic, the blessed virgin Mary, whom Catholics believe also ascended to heaven (but they call it assumption, not ascension).

Without the salvation offered by believing in Jesus's ascension, there is also no hell, where people who don't believe in Jesus go to suffer eternally, for refusing to believe in the salvation that Jesus offered.

It's true that some people never even learn about Jesus while they're alive, so can't make the decision to believe or not, but with the work of missionaries and modern communication, more and more people are given the choice between believing/not believing, heaven/hell.

What's happening though, is that belief in the resurrection is declining! Deans of Christian seminaries don't believe. People who were raised in Christianity reject it and don't teach it to their children. Other self-described Christians don't think belief in the literal resurrection is vital to being Christian.

They won't find out if they're right until after they're dead, but it's obviously a chance they are willing to take.

+1. I think these people like the dean are more interested in politicizing Jesus and morphing him into just a regular guy with nice happy feeling messages, rather than actually understanding why he came to earth in the first place, or the whole point of Christianity.

Just goes to show that not everyone who calls themselves Christian are Christian, even deans of theological seminaries. You have to be very aware and discerning of false teachers these days.

I've heard no call for her to resign her post, her ideas might be pretty mainstream.

That doesn’t make them correct. It’s not a popular option poll. Jesus is clear that there are many, many who will claim to follow him but will be “spewn out” by Him because of false teachings

They may not be correct, but they are having an enormous influence - and no human force, so far, is impeding them. Is there anything in the Bible about when or how they will be spewn out?

I don’t know any verses about God spewing out false teachers, but I know for a fact that at the judgement, God will say to them “depart from me I never knew you”. It isn’t a guarantee that false teachers will be called out during their life, but they will face judgement.

You are a Biblical literalist, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen this Kristof Easter interview in the New York Times? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/opinion/sunday/christian-easter-serene-jones.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

He interviews the dean of Union Theological Seminary, who is a United Church of Christ minister and a former Yale professor who doesn’t believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection and isn’t sure about heaven. Still, she considers herself a Christian.

What do you think?

Just like you can be a Christian and not necessarily believe that the Earth has been created in 7 days.
Why is it so important how Jesus was created or born or Mary ditto? The most important is the message of love. EVANGELIA.
Love one another. Who cares about the small stuff?

Its one thing to believe that the earth wasn’t created in a literal 7 days, but it’s another to deny the virgin birth, resurrection, miracles, the reality of heaven and hell, eternal destiny of the soul, belief in Jesus Christ as means to salvation, all while being a CHRISTIAN minister.

To nonchristians Easter is just a symbol of love, rebirth, renewal, and that’s fine because they don’t believe in God or the Bible. So of course Easter is symbolic for them.

But for Christians it means a lot more. It means a LITERAL resurrection. It has to or Christians have no salvation. If Jesus didn’t literally conquer death and pay for our sins, all of Christianity is pointless. Evangelism is pointless. The Bible is pointless. Being a Christian is pointless then. So there HAS to be a literal resurrection for a Christian, it shouldn’t be just “small stuff.”

And for a lot of Christians (people like the Dean excepted) salvation means everlasting life in heaven, with Jesus, his father, God, and if you're Catholic, the blessed virgin Mary, whom Catholics believe also ascended to heaven (but they call it assumption, not ascension).

Without the salvation offered by believing in Jesus's ascension, there is also no hell, where people who don't believe in Jesus go to suffer eternally, for refusing to believe in the salvation that Jesus offered.

It's true that some people never even learn about Jesus while they're alive, so can't make the decision to believe or not, but with the work of missionaries and modern communication, more and more people are given the choice between believing/not believing, heaven/hell.

What's happening though, is that belief in the resurrection is declining! Deans of Christian seminaries don't believe. People who were raised in Christianity reject it and don't teach it to their children. Other self-described Christians don't think belief in the literal resurrection is vital to being Christian.

They won't find out if they're right until after they're dead, but it's obviously a chance they are willing to take.

+1. I think these people like the dean are more interested in politicizing Jesus and morphing him into just a regular guy with nice happy feeling messages, rather than actually understanding why he came to earth in the first place, or the whole point of Christianity.

Just goes to show that not everyone who calls themselves Christian are Christian, even deans of theological seminaries. You have to be very aware and discerning of false teachers these days.

I've heard no call for her to resign her post, her ideas might be pretty mainstream.

That doesn’t make them correct. It’s not a popular option poll. Jesus is clear that there are many, many who will claim to follow him but will be “spewn out” by Him because of false teachings

They may not be correct, but they are having an enormous influence - and no human force, so far, is impeding them. Is there anything in the Bible about when or how they will be spewn out?

I don’t know any verses about God spewing out false teachers, but I know for a fact that at the judgement, God will say to them “depart from me I never knew you”. It isn’t a guarantee that false teachers will be called out during their life, but they will face judgement.

You are a Biblical literalist, right?

Yes for the most part. Not for everything of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen this Kristof Easter interview in the New York Times? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/opinion/sunday/christian-easter-serene-jones.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

He interviews the dean of Union Theological Seminary, who is a United Church of Christ minister and a former Yale professor who doesn’t believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection and isn’t sure about heaven. Still, she considers herself a Christian.

What do you think?

Just like you can be a Christian and not necessarily believe that the Earth has been created in 7 days.
Why is it so important how Jesus was created or born or Mary ditto? The most important is the message of love. EVANGELIA.
Love one another. Who cares about the small stuff?

Its one thing to believe that the earth wasn’t created in a literal 7 days, but it’s another to deny the virgin birth, resurrection, miracles, the reality of heaven and hell, eternal destiny of the soul, belief in Jesus Christ as means to salvation, all while being a CHRISTIAN minister.

To nonchristians Easter is just a symbol of love, rebirth, renewal, and that’s fine because they don’t believe in God or the Bible. So of course Easter is symbolic for them.

But for Christians it means a lot more. It means a LITERAL resurrection. It has to or Christians have no salvation. If Jesus didn’t literally conquer death and pay for our sins, all of Christianity is pointless. Evangelism is pointless. The Bible is pointless. Being a Christian is pointless then. So there HAS to be a literal resurrection for a Christian, it shouldn’t be just “small stuff.”

And for a lot of Christians (people like the Dean excepted) salvation means everlasting life in heaven, with Jesus, his father, God, and if you're Catholic, the blessed virgin Mary, whom Catholics believe also ascended to heaven (but they call it assumption, not ascension).

Without the salvation offered by believing in Jesus's ascension, there is also no hell, where people who don't believe in Jesus go to suffer eternally, for refusing to believe in the salvation that Jesus offered.

It's true that some people never even learn about Jesus while they're alive, so can't make the decision to believe or not, but with the work of missionaries and modern communication, more and more people are given the choice between believing/not believing, heaven/hell.

What's happening though, is that belief in the resurrection is declining! Deans of Christian seminaries don't believe. People who were raised in Christianity reject it and don't teach it to their children. Other self-described Christians don't think belief in the literal resurrection is vital to being Christian.

They won't find out if they're right until after they're dead, but it's obviously a chance they are willing to take.

+1. I think these people like the dean are more interested in politicizing Jesus and morphing him into just a regular guy with nice happy feeling messages, rather than actually understanding why he came to earth in the first place, or the whole point of Christianity.

Just goes to show that not everyone who calls themselves Christian are Christian, even deans of theological seminaries. You have to be very aware and discerning of false teachers these days.

I've heard no call for her to resign her post, her ideas might be pretty mainstream.

That doesn’t make them correct. It’s not a popular option poll. Jesus is clear that there are many, many who will claim to follow him but will be “spewn out” by Him because of false teachings

They may not be correct, but they are having an enormous influence - and no human force, so far, is impeding them. Is there anything in the Bible about when or how they will be spewn out?

I don’t know any verses about God spewing out false teachers, but I know for a fact that at the judgement, God will say to them “depart from me I never knew you”. It isn’t a guarantee that false teachers will be called out during their life, but they will face judgement.

You are a Biblical literalist, right?

Yes for the most part. Not for everything of course.

So you know that many people, some who are deeply religious , could disagree with your "facts" that come straight out of the bible

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen this Kristof Easter interview in the New York Times? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/opinion/sunday/christian-easter-serene-jones.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

He interviews the dean of Union Theological Seminary, who is a United Church of Christ minister and a former Yale professor who doesn’t believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection and isn’t sure about heaven. Still, she considers herself a Christian.

What do you think?

Just like you can be a Christian and not necessarily believe that the Earth has been created in 7 days.
Why is it so important how Jesus was created or born or Mary ditto? The most important is the message of love. EVANGELIA.
Love one another. Who cares about the small stuff?

Its one thing to believe that the earth wasn’t created in a literal 7 days, but it’s another to deny the virgin birth, resurrection, miracles, the reality of heaven and hell, eternal destiny of the soul, belief in Jesus Christ as means to salvation, all while being a CHRISTIAN minister.

To nonchristians Easter is just a symbol of love, rebirth, renewal, and that’s fine because they don’t believe in God or the Bible. So of course Easter is symbolic for them.

But for Christians it means a lot more. It means a LITERAL resurrection. It has to or Christians have no salvation. If Jesus didn’t literally conquer death and pay for our sins, all of Christianity is pointless. Evangelism is pointless. The Bible is pointless. Being a Christian is pointless then. So there HAS to be a literal resurrection for a Christian, it shouldn’t be just “small stuff.”

And for a lot of Christians (people like the Dean excepted) salvation means everlasting life in heaven, with Jesus, his father, God, and if you're Catholic, the blessed virgin Mary, whom Catholics believe also ascended to heaven (but they call it assumption, not ascension).

Without the salvation offered by believing in Jesus's ascension, there is also no hell, where people who don't believe in Jesus go to suffer eternally, for refusing to believe in the salvation that Jesus offered.

It's true that some people never even learn about Jesus while they're alive, so can't make the decision to believe or not, but with the work of missionaries and modern communication, more and more people are given the choice between believing/not believing, heaven/hell.

What's happening though, is that belief in the resurrection is declining! Deans of Christian seminaries don't believe. People who were raised in Christianity reject it and don't teach it to their children. Other self-described Christians don't think belief in the literal resurrection is vital to being Christian.

They won't find out if they're right until after they're dead, but it's obviously a chance they are willing to take.

+1. I think these people like the dean are more interested in politicizing Jesus and morphing him into just a regular guy with nice happy feeling messages, rather than actually understanding why he came to earth in the first place, or the whole point of Christianity.

Just goes to show that not everyone who calls themselves Christian are Christian, even deans of theological seminaries. You have to be very aware and discerning of false teachers these days.

I've heard no call for her to resign her post, her ideas might be pretty mainstream.

That doesn’t make them correct. It’s not a popular option poll. Jesus is clear that there are many, many who will claim to follow him but will be “spewn out” by Him because of false teachings

They may not be correct, but they are having an enormous influence - and no human force, so far, is impeding them. Is there anything in the Bible about when or how they will be spewn out?

I don’t know any verses about God spewing out false teachers, but I know for a fact that at the judgement, God will say to them “depart from me I never knew you”. It isn’t a guarantee that false teachers will be called out during their life, but they will face judgement.

You are a Biblical literalist, right?

Yes for the most part. Not for everything of course.

So you know that many people, some who are deeply religious , could disagree with your "facts" that come straight out of the bible

Yes that’s what most of the discussion in this thread is about. I’m not sure what your point is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen this Kristof Easter interview in the New York Times? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/opinion/sunday/christian-easter-serene-jones.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

He interviews the dean of Union Theological Seminary, who is a United Church of Christ minister and a former Yale professor who doesn’t believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection and isn’t sure about heaven. Still, she considers herself a Christian.

What do you think?

Just like you can be a Christian and not necessarily believe that the Earth has been created in 7 days.
Why is it so important how Jesus was created or born or Mary ditto? The most important is the message of love. EVANGELIA.
Love one another. Who cares about the small stuff?

Its one thing to believe that the earth wasn’t created in a literal 7 days, but it’s another to deny the virgin birth, resurrection, miracles, the reality of heaven and hell, eternal destiny of the soul, belief in Jesus Christ as means to salvation, all while being a CHRISTIAN minister.

To nonchristians Easter is just a symbol of love, rebirth, renewal, and that’s fine because they don’t believe in God or the Bible. So of course Easter is symbolic for them.

But for Christians it means a lot more. It means a LITERAL resurrection. It has to or Christians have no salvation. If Jesus didn’t literally conquer death and pay for our sins, all of Christianity is pointless. Evangelism is pointless. The Bible is pointless. Being a Christian is pointless then. So there HAS to be a literal resurrection for a Christian, it shouldn’t be just “small stuff.”

And for a lot of Christians (people like the Dean excepted) salvation means everlasting life in heaven, with Jesus, his father, God, and if you're Catholic, the blessed virgin Mary, whom Catholics believe also ascended to heaven (but they call it assumption, not ascension).

Without the salvation offered by believing in Jesus's ascension, there is also no hell, where people who don't believe in Jesus go to suffer eternally, for refusing to believe in the salvation that Jesus offered.

It's true that some people never even learn about Jesus while they're alive, so can't make the decision to believe or not, but with the work of missionaries and modern communication, more and more people are given the choice between believing/not believing, heaven/hell.

What's happening though, is that belief in the resurrection is declining! Deans of Christian seminaries don't believe. People who were raised in Christianity reject it and don't teach it to their children. Other self-described Christians don't think belief in the literal resurrection is vital to being Christian.

They won't find out if they're right until after they're dead, but it's obviously a chance they are willing to take.

+1. I think these people like the dean are more interested in politicizing Jesus and morphing him into just a regular guy with nice happy feeling messages, rather than actually understanding why he came to earth in the first place, or the whole point of Christianity.

Just goes to show that not everyone who calls themselves Christian are Christian, even deans of theological seminaries. You have to be very aware and discerning of false teachers these days.

I've heard no call for her to resign her post, her ideas might be pretty mainstream.

That doesn’t make them correct. It’s not a popular option poll. Jesus is clear that there are many, many who will claim to follow him but will be “spewn out” by Him because of false teachings

They may not be correct, but they are having an enormous influence - and no human force, so far, is impeding them. Is there anything in the Bible about when or how they will be spewn out?

I don’t know any verses about God spewing out false teachers, but I know for a fact that at the judgement, God will say to them “depart from me I never knew you”. It isn’t a guarantee that false teachers will be called out during their life, but they will face judgement.

You are a Biblical literalist, right?

Yes for the most part. Not for everything of course.

So you know that many people, some who are deeply religious , could disagree with your "facts" that come straight out of the bible

Yes that’s what most of the discussion in this thread is about. I’m not sure what your point is.

As a Bible literalist, your "facts" are questioned or simply not believed by lots of other Christians who also consider the Bible to be a holy book. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say "I firmly believe...." instead of "I know for a fact...."