Too much Christmas Education in my Public School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She made a Christmas tree, a Rudolph ornament and an Elf ornament, and a Santa hat pencil holder. They were gifts from her to us. All the kids had to make the same thing. I would have been fine with one or two Christmas themed and then a snowman, snowflake, etc.

Those are all secular and non religous things.

They learned about menorahs. Did they learn about advent wreaths? That would be an equivalent religious item.

A menorah is religious.

Santa, elves, reindeer and Christmas trees are not.

But it’s all Christmas, a holiday my kid doesn’t celebrate and is excluded from because we are not Christian. Do you get it? The menorah was a 5 min activity. This was all day everyday for a month. And they learned about the nativity, the wise men and baby Jesus.

If this is really true - name the school

And if it did happen, did your kid really feel excluded or did she happily participate and then you made her feel bad at home with your faux outrage?
And if she did feel excluded, so what? The every kid must be happy every moment environment has been such a disservice and now that my kid is in middle school I wish they had not had the “every kid is a winner! Every kid most never, ever have an uncomfortable moment, ever. No feelings allowed! “

This is not faux outrage, it is oppression of a religious minority. Religious freedom is one of the foundations of our country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d be miffed too. My impression is that schools go all-in for holiday celebrations of all types more than when we were kids. Halloween, Thanksgiving, black history month, 100th day of school, etc etc. There’s a weird dynamic with the emphasis of testing on the one hand, and entertaining kids with adult-led celebrations on the other.

So true. I don't understand it either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you are in the Deep South of Midwest this is hard to believe. Public schools go to great pains now to make everything genetically winter/ambiguous holiday themed. No teacher I know including myself touches the Christian aspect of it and if any Christmas music is played at all it's highly secular stuff like Frosty the Snowman.

I’m guessing that she lives in either Oklahoma or Georgia.

She said DC upthread.

There is a 3rd, most likely possiblity that OPs kid is learning this stuff through her friends. OP reported projects coming home that are completely secular and not religious or Christian at all. In fact, many Christian evangelical religions object strongly to things like Rudolph and Santa being included with Christmas. They are the same type of evangelical Christians who have harvest festivals instead of Halloween.

OPs kid is 6, so likely kindergarten. In kindergarten, class lessons are often very free flow, with kids interjecting and interrupting continuously to "share" what they know and do in their own lives. So a discussion about what the kids are doing over break could quickly turn into a debate about Santa, which leads to some other kids arguing that Christmas is not about Santa because it is about Mary, Joseph and Baby Jesus being born in the manger (with scripture quotes, yes even at 5 or 6) to everyone agreeing that no matter what, Rudolph is real and we need to include everyone in our version of Reindeer Games.

Through all this, the teacher is gingerly monitoring the discussion, trying to balance not offending someone by appearing (to 30 different kindergartners relaying the lessons to varying degrees of easily offended parents) biased or endorsing one of the viewpoints or even worse, evangelizing, when all they are trying to do it to help the kids to naturally share their traditions in a "yes, Larla, many people celebrate this way and others celebrate that way while others don't celebrate at all."

Learning happens in very different ways and often through peers.

If you want your kid raised in a bubble with no one else's ideas, homeschooling is the best way.

This is not how kindergarten classes are run in DC.

[Anonymous]

I would not complain. It is like seeking attention.
Teachers do a thankless job and have to deal with crazy parents all the time.
Complaining about this will sound ridiculous to them, and could draw unwanted attention, you are not the one who demands special attention all the time, is easily angered and hates the teacher. Find a way to be on their side and supportive

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would not complain. It is like seeking attention.
Teachers do a thankless job and have to deal with crazy parents all the time.
Complaining about this will sound ridiculous to them, and could draw unwanted attention, you are not the one who demands special attention all the time, is easily angered and hates the teacher. Find a way to be on their side and supportive

You are insane. A teacher's job is to teach the curriculum, not evangelize. Many people work thankless jobs, but that's not an excuse to not do it right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you are in the Deep South of Midwest this is hard to believe. Public schools go to great pains now to make everything genetically winter/ambiguous holiday themed. No teacher I know including myself touches the Christian aspect of it and if any Christmas music is played at all it's highly secular stuff like Frosty the Snowman.

I’m guessing that she lives in either Oklahoma or Georgia.

She said DC upthread.

There is a 3rd, most likely possiblity that OPs kid is learning this stuff through her friends. OP reported projects coming home that are completely secular and not religious or Christian at all. In fact, many Christian evangelical religions object strongly to things like Rudolph and Santa being included with Christmas. They are the same type of evangelical Christians who have harvest festivals instead of Halloween.

OPs kid is 6, so likely kindergarten. In kindergarten, class lessons are often very free flow, with kids interjecting and interrupting continuously to "share" what they know and do in their own lives. So a discussion about what the kids are doing over break could quickly turn into a debate about Santa, which leads to some other kids arguing that Christmas is not about Santa because it is about Mary, Joseph and Baby Jesus being born in the manger (with scripture quotes, yes even at 5 or 6) to everyone agreeing that no matter what, Rudolph is real and we need to include everyone in our version of Reindeer Games.

Through all this, the teacher is gingerly monitoring the discussion, trying to balance not offending someone by appearing (to 30 different kindergartners relaying the lessons to varying degrees of easily offended parents) biased or endorsing one of the viewpoints or even worse, evangelizing, when all they are trying to do it to help the kids to naturally share their traditions in a "yes, Larla, many people celebrate this way and others celebrate that way while others don't celebrate at all."

Learning happens in very different ways and often through peers.

If you want your kid raised in a bubble with no one else's ideas, homeschooling is the best way.

This is not how kindergarten classes are run in DC.

They don't have circle time or share time in DC kindergarten?

Kids are not allowed to talk or interact during kindergarten lessons in DC?

Everyone sits quietly and no kids talk out of turn or share things that happen outside of school?

Kindergarten in DC sounds very strange then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She made a Christmas tree, a Rudolph ornament and an Elf ornament, and a Santa hat pencil holder. They were gifts from her to us. All the kids had to make the same thing. I would have been fine with one or two Christmas themed and then a snowman, snowflake, etc.

Those are all secular and non religous things.

They learned about menorahs. Did they learn about advent wreaths? That would be an equivalent religious item.

A menorah is religious.

Santa, elves, reindeer and Christmas trees are not.

But it’s all Christmas, a holiday my kid doesn’t celebrate and is excluded from because we are not Christian. Do you get it? The menorah was a 5 min activity. This was all day everyday for a month. And they learned about the nativity, the wise men and baby Jesus.

If this is really true - name the school

And if it did happen, did your kid really feel excluded or did she happily participate and then you made her feel bad at home with your faux outrage?
And if she did feel excluded, so what? The every kid must be happy every moment environment has been such a disservice and now that my kid is in middle school I wish they had not had the “every kid is a winner! Every kid most never, ever have an uncomfortable moment, ever. No feelings allowed! “

DP. You're missing the point. We have a constitution that provides for separation of church and state. This is a public school. One of the driving forces for our forefathers coming here was freedom of/freedom from religion. It's troubling how many Americans have no clue about our constitution and the principles on which our country was built.

It is even more troubling that there are so many Americans like you who do not understand what our Constitution means with regards to religious freedom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having had kids in 4 different DCPS schools and 1 charter school I call complete BS on this.

I am the OP. I am not making this up. I do think a big part of it is her teacher (who I do like) but she is not originally from America and is from a country where they pretty much ONLY celebrate Christmas, so i am just thinking it’s a cultural thing for her and she just didn’t think about it.

She did attempt with the one Chanukah thing (which all kids did) and did ask anyone who wants to come in and speak about their holidays/backgrounds, which we did. I am surprised about the Spanish nativity thing. I knowit’s big in Spanish culture, but it just seems weird for kindergarten.

A lot of these comments are so weird, which makes me wonder how my criticism will be perceived. I think I will start with the teacher (just so she knows how we feel) and go from there.

So, if kids in the class are talking about putting up their Nativity, and your kid asks the teacher "What is a Nativity?" should the teacher not respond?

Dumb hypothetical. next?

It is not a dumb hypothetical. It is what likely happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She made a Christmas tree, a Rudolph ornament and an Elf ornament, and a Santa hat pencil holder. They were gifts from her to us. All the kids had to make the same thing. I would have been fine with one or two Christmas themed and then a snowman, snowflake, etc.

Those are all secular and non religous things.

They learned about menorahs. Did they learn about advent wreaths? That would be an equivalent religious item.

A menorah is religious.

Santa, elves, reindeer and Christmas trees are not.

But it’s all Christmas, a holiday my kid doesn’t celebrate and is excluded from because we are not Christian. Do you get it? The menorah was a 5 min activity. This was all day everyday for a month. And they learned about the nativity, the wise men and baby Jesus.

If this is really true - name the school

And if it did happen, did your kid really feel excluded or did she happily participate and then you made her feel bad at home with your faux outrage?
And if she did feel excluded, so what? The every kid must be happy every moment environment has been such a disservice and now that my kid is in middle school I wish they had not had the “every kid is a winner! Every kid most never, ever have an uncomfortable moment, ever. No feelings allowed! “

DP. You're missing the point. We have a constitution that provides for separation of church and state. This is a public school. One of the driving forces for our forefathers coming here was freedom of/freedom from religion. It's troubling how many Americans have no clue about our constitution and the principles on which our country was built.

It is even more troubling that there are so many Americans like you who do not understand what our Constitution means with regards to religious freedom.

What do you think it means, and on what basis?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having had kids in 4 different DCPS schools and 1 charter school I call complete BS on this.

I am the OP. I am not making this up. I do think a big part of it is her teacher (who I do like) but she is not originally from America and is from a country where they pretty much ONLY celebrate Christmas, so i am just thinking it’s a cultural thing for her and she just didn’t think about it.

She did attempt with the one Chanukah thing (which all kids did) and did ask anyone who wants to come in and speak about their holidays/backgrounds, which we did. I am surprised about the Spanish nativity thing. I knowit’s big in Spanish culture, but it just seems weird for kindergarten.

A lot of these comments are so weird, which makes me wonder how my criticism will be perceived. I think I will start with the teacher (just so she knows how we feel) and go from there.

So, if kids in the class are talking about putting up their Nativity, and your kid asks the teacher "What is a Nativity?" should the teacher not respond?

Dumb hypothetical. next?

It is not a dumb hypothetical. It is what likely happened.

No, it's really not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you are in the Deep South of Midwest this is hard to believe. Public schools go to great pains now to make everything genetically winter/ambiguous holiday themed. No teacher I know including myself touches the Christian aspect of it and if any Christmas music is played at all it's highly secular stuff like Frosty the Snowman.

I’m guessing that she lives in either Oklahoma or Georgia.

She said DC upthread.

There is a 3rd, most likely possiblity that OPs kid is learning this stuff through her friends. OP reported projects coming home that are completely secular and not religious or Christian at all. In fact, many Christian evangelical religions object strongly to things like Rudolph and Santa being included with Christmas. They are the same type of evangelical Christians who have harvest festivals instead of Halloween.

OPs kid is 6, so likely kindergarten. In kindergarten, class lessons are often very free flow, with kids interjecting and interrupting continuously to "share" what they know and do in their own lives. So a discussion about what the kids are doing over break could quickly turn into a debate about Santa, which leads to some other kids arguing that Christmas is not about Santa because it is about Mary, Joseph and Baby Jesus being born in the manger (with scripture quotes, yes even at 5 or 6) to everyone agreeing that no matter what, Rudolph is real and we need to include everyone in our version of Reindeer Games.

Through all this, the teacher is gingerly monitoring the discussion, trying to balance not offending someone by appearing (to 30 different kindergartners relaying the lessons to varying degrees of easily offended parents) biased or endorsing one of the viewpoints or even worse, evangelizing, when all they are trying to do it to help the kids to naturally share their traditions in a "yes, Larla, many people celebrate this way and others celebrate that way while others don't celebrate at all."

Learning happens in very different ways and often through peers.

If you want your kid raised in a bubble with no one else's ideas, homeschooling is the best way.

This is not how kindergarten classes are run in DC.

They don't have circle time or share time in DC kindergarten?

Kids are not allowed to talk or interact during kindergarten lessons in DC?

Everyone sits quietly and no kids talk out of turn or share things that happen outside of school?

Kindergarten in DC sounds very strange then.

class lessons are not "free flow" in DC. I don't know why posters like you are so insistent that teacher-led Christmas celebrations aren't happening. They absolutely are. I posted upthread that my DS's (excellent) DC 1st grade teacher approached this by giving a lesson on the historical St Nicholas and also about Kwanza. There are ways to be inclusive if the teacher and school care.

[Anonymous]

I am a teacher. Absolutely you should let her know how you feel. Politely, of course, but as a public school teacher in an extremely diverse school, it is not a secret that you can’t do exclusively Christmas. I try to make things inclusive—and it’s really no more work than doing Christmas only stuff. I teach middle school math, so our linear functions make snowflakes and gingerbread men. Our goofy mystery puzzle activities are to figure out who melted the snowman, not who stole Rudolph.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having had kids in 4 different DCPS schools and 1 charter school I call complete BS on this.

I am the OP. I am not making this up. I do think a big part of it is her teacher (who I do like) but she is not originally from America and is from a country where they pretty much ONLY celebrate Christmas, so i am just thinking it’s a cultural thing for her and she just didn’t think about it.

She did attempt with the one Chanukah thing (which all kids did) and did ask anyone who wants to come in and speak about their holidays/backgrounds, which we did. I am surprised about the Spanish nativity thing. I knowit’s big in Spanish culture, but it just seems weird for kindergarten.

A lot of these comments are so weird, which makes me wonder how my criticism will be perceived. I think I will start with the teacher (just so she knows how we feel) and go from there.

So, if kids in the class are talking about putting up their Nativity, and your kid asks the teacher "What is a Nativity?" should the teacher not respond?

Dumb hypothetical. next?

It is not a dumb hypothetical. It is what likely happened.

No, it's really not.

Obviously you have never, ever set foot in a kindergarten classroom, even in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having had kids in 4 different DCPS schools and 1 charter school I call complete BS on this.

I am the OP. I am not making this up. I do think a big part of it is her teacher (who I do like) but she is not originally from America and is from a country where they pretty much ONLY celebrate Christmas, so i am just thinking it’s a cultural thing for her and she just didn’t think about it.

She did attempt with the one Chanukah thing (which all kids did) and did ask anyone who wants to come in and speak about their holidays/backgrounds, which we did. I am surprised about the Spanish nativity thing. I knowit’s big in Spanish culture, but it just seems weird for kindergarten.

A lot of these comments are so weird, which makes me wonder how my criticism will be perceived. I think I will start with the teacher (just so she knows how we feel) and go from there.

I believe you OP. My kid's 1st grade class in Alexandria (ACPS) was like this this year (also a teacher from another nearly 100 percent Christian country, interestingly). I was not happy about it either but haven't said anything about it yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She made a Christmas tree, a Rudolph ornament and an Elf ornament, and a Santa hat pencil holder. They were gifts from her to us. All the kids had to make the same thing. I would have been fine with one or two Christmas themed and then a snowman, snowflake, etc.

Those are all secular and non religous things.

They learned about menorahs. Did they learn about advent wreaths? That would be an equivalent religious item.

A menorah is religious.

Santa, elves, reindeer and Christmas trees are not.

Santa, elves, reindeer and a Christmas tree are not secular. They relate to Christianity and Christmas. How do you even justify your comments? Its not ok to teach that to public school kids and set them up. Its extremely inappropiate.

We moved from a diverse area so that our kids could attend school in a smaller system. (very purposeful) In our former system, there was no mention of Christmas. It was winter break. If my daughter gave presents, they were thank you presents attached to secular cards.

In this system, my son's teachers dressed up as elves, Santa visited the high school, and my son made a Christmas ornament in art class. People used the phrase, Merry Christmas. I don't know how many Jewish families are in our small school system, and I only know of one Muslim family with one graduate and two more happily moving through the schools.

In schools, the greater setting determines the norms. If OP's school is experiencing a transition (aka growing in diversity), some of these former practices will upset the parents.