New math pathway

[Anonymous]

This is super confusing. I will say that I’ve got two kids in compacted math—their MAP scores have consistently been in the 95-99+ percentile, and I think that compacted math is sufficiently challenging for them. It moves pretty fast. I’d be nervous about additional acceleration. I know one kid that needed more, but I think it’s pretty rare ..... definitely less than 1% of the kids, so I’m not sure how they make this a real class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is super confusing. I will say that I’ve got two kids in compacted math—their MAP scores have consistently been in the 95-99+ percentile, and I think that compacted math is sufficiently challenging for them. It moves pretty fast. I’d be nervous about additional acceleration. I know one kid that needed more, but I think it’s pretty rare ..... definitely less than 1% of the kids, so I’m not sure how they make this a real class.

I'm the pp talking about the new pathway class in our regional CES. We are at Cold Spring, and I believe at least Pyle CES is also applying this similar pathway to one class of student. I believe all of my DC's math class classmates meet at least 99% on grade level of MAP-M test. My DC's math is 99% three grades above, and so far he never complains about too fast pace. It's fine for them to skip the entire 4th grade math because they can somehow makeup during absorbing new concepts. I'm not sure about what his classmates feel, but one good thing about forming a whole class is that you don't need to send kids to the MS at 5th grade, so logistically it's efficient.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is super confusing. I will say that I’ve got two kids in compacted math—their MAP scores have consistently been in the 95-99+ percentile, and I think that compacted math is sufficiently challenging for them. It moves pretty fast. I’d be nervous about additional acceleration. I know one kid that needed more, but I think it’s pretty rare ..... definitely less than 1% of the kids, so I’m not sure how they make this a real class.

+1 I have a child whose MAP scores are just a touch lower (ranging from 93rd to 98th percentile) and compacted math at our regional CES has not been a cakewalk. I absolutely believe there are kids in the district and in my child's class who could just skip 4/5 but I have a hard time believing there's a whole classroom of them.

[Anonymous]

Yes, there seems to be a mythical narrative on this board about student performance. For example, the other week there was a parent claiming that 270 was a common map-m score for the mid-4th grade. MCPS stats are slightly higher than the national average. MCPS publishes this but it's only slightly higher. 270 is not a common score, especially for 4th graders. Of course, this has happened but requires a lot of outside enrichment since kids don't teach the concepts to themselves and this isn't happening without exposure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sounded like a bright person (not gifted, however)

You joke, but one of the stated reasons for getting rid of the hyper-advanced track under 2.0 was high school math teachers complaining about kids who were advanced so quickly that they lacked the foundational skills necessary for higher level math. If we're going back to that system, the kids admitted need to be only those capable of doing the work, not just those whose parents want them on the most advanced track at any cost.

Or the teachers teaching math in ES and MS need to be better. My DC was in advanced math in ES and MS and I saw a lot of teachers who were crappy teachers teaching formulaically and without an understanding of the math concepts. In MS, the math teacher taught an entire unit of probability with incorrect formulas.... and never retaught correctly, even when brought to her attention!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, there seems to be a mythical narrative on this board about student performance. For example, the other week there was a parent claiming that 270 was a common map-m score for the mid-4th grade. MCPS stats are slightly higher than the national average. MCPS publishes this but it's only slightly higher. 270 is not a common score, especially for 4th graders. Of course, this has happened but requires a lot of outside enrichment since kids don't teach the concepts to themselves and this isn't happening without exposure.

I’m that pp again. I didn’t say 270 is common. I said that’s the 3rd highest score among my DC’s classmates, and I have no full knowledge of the statistics of the entire class. My DC never goes to any outside math enrichment class other than self-watching Kahn Academy, and playing prodigy as a reward in school. He is in the new math pathway and I think this helps improving his MAP score more or less.

[Anonymous]

I once saw a MS teacher leave out parentheses in algebra because she felt they were too confusing for the children. Pre 2.0.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, there seems to be a mythical narrative on this board about student performance. For example, the other week there was a parent claiming that 270 was a common map-m score for the mid-4th grade. MCPS stats are slightly higher than the national average. MCPS publishes this but it's only slightly higher. 270 is not a common score, especially for 4th graders. Of course, this has happened but requires a lot of outside enrichment since kids don't teach the concepts to themselves and this isn't happening without exposure.

My kid was always self taught using Khan Academy during regular school instruction time when teacher was busy with kids need extra help at his home school. Now in regional CES 4th grade, MAP-M winter score 269. My kid's MAP-R is always over 99% but is lower than MAP-M, coz there is no self-taught of grammar available through MCPS.

My little one at home school is now in pull-out learning for math concept introduction 2 years in advance. But this only happens once in a while when teacher is not busy, most of the time he is self taught using Khan Academy as well.

I never signed them up for any outside enrichment in math or reading. They learned basic arithmetic concept at preschool. All the rest of learning is self-driven and self-taught.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, there seems to be a mythical narrative on this board about student performance. For example, the other week there was a parent claiming that 270 was a common map-m score for the mid-4th grade. MCPS stats are slightly higher than the national average. MCPS publishes this but it's only slightly higher. 270 is not a common score, especially for 4th graders. Of course, this has happened but requires a lot of outside enrichment since kids don't teach the concepts to themselves and this isn't happening without exposure.

I’m that pp again. I didn’t say 270 is common. I said that’s the 3rd highest score among my DC’s classmates, and I have no full knowledge of the statistics of the entire class. My DC never goes to any outside math enrichment class other than self-watching Kahn Academy, and playing prodigy as a reward in school. He is in the new math pathway and I think this helps improving his MAP score more or less.

Your kid is an outlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, there seems to be a mythical narrative on this board about student performance. For example, the other week there was a parent claiming that 270 was a common map-m score for the mid-4th grade. MCPS stats are slightly higher than the national average. MCPS publishes this but it's only slightly higher. 270 is not a common score, especially for 4th graders. Of course, this has happened but requires a lot of outside enrichment since kids don't teach the concepts to themselves and this isn't happening without exposure.

I’m that pp again. I didn’t say 270 is common. I said that’s the 3rd highest score among my DC’s classmates, and I have no full knowledge of the statistics of the entire class. My DC never goes to any outside math enrichment class other than self-watching Kahn Academy, and playing prodigy as a reward in school. He is in the new math pathway and I think this helps improving his MAP score more or less.

Your kid is an outlier.

pp again. He is an outlier for his home school for sure, but not an outlier for CES. That's why new math pathway can be implemented to a whole class of students. They are all outliers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, there seems to be a mythical narrative on this board about student performance. For example, the other week there was a parent claiming that 270 was a common map-m score for the mid-4th grade. MCPS stats are slightly higher than the national average. MCPS publishes this but it's only slightly higher. 270 is not a common score, especially for 4th graders. Of course, this has happened but requires a lot of outside enrichment since kids don't teach the concepts to themselves and this isn't happening without exposure.

My kid was always self taught using Khan Academy during regular school instruction time when teacher was busy with kids need extra help at his home school. Now in regional CES 4th grade, MAP-M winter score 269. My kid's MAP-R is always over 99% but is lower than MAP-M, coz there is no self-taught of grammar available through MCPS.

My little one at home school is now in pull-out learning for math concept introduction 2 years in advance. But this only happens once in a while when teacher is not busy, most of the time he is self taught using Khan Academy as well.

I never signed them up for any outside enrichment in math or reading. They learned basic arithmetic concept at preschool. All the rest of learning is self-driven and self-taught.

Sounds like typical CES kids. Let them freely grow and provide as much support as you can. They will flourish.

That's also why I against the new magnet selection criteria: yes, it would give the poor kid scored at 95% in a weak school a greater chance, but it's extremely hard for him to catch-up with the 99% several grade level above peers. So either he suffers if he is the "outlier" of the magnet class, or the entire class is watered down if there are a few of the 95% kids. I'm not talking just about scoring 95% on MAP or PARCC. I'm also talking about CoGAT. You can study hard and catch up with missing knowledge, but you can never reach the pace your 99% peers can reach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, there seems to be a mythical narrative on this board about student performance. For example, the other week there was a parent claiming that 270 was a common map-m score for the mid-4th grade. MCPS stats are slightly higher than the national average. MCPS publishes this but it's only slightly higher. 270 is not a common score, especially for 4th graders. Of course, this has happened but requires a lot of outside enrichment since kids don't teach the concepts to themselves and this isn't happening without exposure.

I’m that pp again. I didn’t say 270 is common. I said that’s the 3rd highest score among my DC’s classmates, and I have no full knowledge of the statistics of the entire class. My DC never goes to any outside math enrichment class other than self-watching Kahn Academy, and playing prodigy as a reward in school. He is in the new math pathway and I think this helps improving his MAP score more or less.

Your kid is an outlier.

pp again. He is an outlier for his home school for sure, but not an outlier for CES. That's why new math pathway can be implemented to a whole class of students. They are all outliers.

Statistically, there should be little more than 120 5th graders with scores over 253 in the entire county based on the national norms published by NWEA. Sure, MCPS may be a little higher but we're not talking more than a few dozen kids total.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, there seems to be a mythical narrative on this board about student performance. For example, the other week there was a parent claiming that 270 was a common map-m score for the mid-4th grade. MCPS stats are slightly higher than the national average. MCPS publishes this but it's only slightly higher. 270 is not a common score, especially for 4th graders. Of course, this has happened but requires a lot of outside enrichment since kids don't teach the concepts to themselves and this isn't happening without exposure.

My kid was always self taught using Khan Academy during regular school instruction time when teacher was busy with kids need extra help at his home school. Now in regional CES 4th grade, MAP-M winter score 269. My kid's MAP-R is always over 99% but is lower than MAP-M, coz there is no self-taught of grammar available through MCPS.

My little one at home school is now in pull-out learning for math concept introduction 2 years in advance. But this only happens once in a while when teacher is not busy, most of the time he is self taught using Khan Academy as well.

I never signed them up for any outside enrichment in math or reading. They learned basic arithmetic concept at preschool. All the rest of learning is self-driven and self-taught.

Sounds like typical CES kids. Let them freely grow and provide as much support as you can. They will flourish.

That's also why I against the new magnet selection criteria: yes, it would give the poor kid scored at 95% in a weak school a greater chance, but it's extremely hard for him to catch-up with the 99% several grade level above peers. So either he suffers if he is the "outlier" of the magnet class, or the entire class is watered down if there are a few of the 95% kids. I'm not talking just about scoring 95% on MAP or PARCC. I'm also talking about CoGAT. You can study hard and catch up with missing knowledge, but you can never reach the pace your 99% peers can reach.

There are a lot of assumptions in your post; for example, there are so many kids with 99% that just aren't enough seats. Sure, it may make parents feel better to believe that their child's spot went to some unworthy kid, but it simply isn't true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Principal mentioned a new math pathway in email. DC is on compact math now. What’s the new pathway? Anyone heard of it?

Not sure if you are in the same CES with me... We had a meeting with school principal this morning, indicating a faster accelerated pathway to skip the entire Gr4, and directly into Gr5/6 in the MP2 (next Monday). In this pathway, kids can finish Pre-Calculus in Gr9. We were told this is the first year that MCPS tries on this pathway for the most advanced ES math students, so everything about logistics and teacher resources are very uncertain...

This sounds like what my grade 4 DS was just invited to join. He takes 5/6 math this year, and then Algebra 1 at our home middle school next year. Just wondering if anyone has additional information about transportation for the middle school class? We had just a few hours to decide whether to commmit to the program, and the principal wasn’t able to confirm all of the details before we had to make a decision. He thinks that we’re responsible for dropping DS at the middle school in the morning, but that MCPS will provide transportation back to the elementary school after math class is over. Does anyone know whether this is correct?

That is strange - not only are the kids being accelerated, they are skipping IM too?! (The usual path is compact 5/6 -> IM -> Algebra 1 -> ...)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Principal mentioned a new math pathway in email. DC is on compact math now. What’s the new pathway? Anyone heard of it?

Not sure if you are in the same CES with me... We had a meeting with school principal this morning, indicating a faster accelerated pathway to skip the entire Gr4, and directly into Gr5/6 in the MP2 (next Monday). In this pathway, kids can finish Pre-Calculus in Gr9. We were told this is the first year that MCPS tries on this pathway for the most advanced ES math students, so everything about logistics and teacher resources are very uncertain...

This sounds like what my grade 4 DS was just invited to join. He takes 5/6 math this year, and then Algebra 1 at our home middle school next year. Just wondering if anyone has additional information about transportation for the middle school class? We had just a few hours to decide whether to commmit to the program, and the principal wasn’t able to confirm all of the details before we had to make a decision. He thinks that we’re responsible for dropping DS at the middle school in the morning, but that MCPS will provide transportation back to the elementary school after math class is over. Does anyone know whether this is correct?

That is strange - not only are the kids being accelerated, they are skipping IM too?! (The usual path is compact 5/6 -> IM -> Algebra 1 -> ...)

No, they are doing compact 5/6 at 4th grade, and IM at 5th grade, and presumably, Algebra 1 at 6th grade.