Shaw Middle School Community Meeting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why all the vitriol? This was written by long-time Shaw ANC Commissioner Alex Padro. He has a lot of context and understands the neighborhood and DCPS.

I live in Shaw, send my kids to one of the elementary schools and would indeed consider a Shaw Middle School at the original site, but will not send my kids to Cardozo. The site is huge and can include a Shaw Middle as well as Bannekar, so that is what people are trying for.

Why won’t you send your kids to Cardozo?

a) BC it's too far,
b) BC it's not a stand-alone school,
c) BC it doesn't have enough differentiation for advanced kids,
d) BC Ross and Thomson kids don't also go there.

A stand-alone middle school within walking distance of our house with kids from Ross, Thomson, Seaton, Cleveland and Garrison is appealing to me. The current option is not.

Added some letters to break these arguments down.

a) It's not too far. If your middle schooler could get to Hardy, Deal, Latin, Basis, or DCI then they could get to Cardozo.

b) parents of 3yos send their kids to school at Francis Stevens with 8th graders and they manage. Basis and Latin and Haynes and Cap City and lots of other schools have both middle and high school. There are plenty of ways to keep middle and high schoolers separate within the same campus--Cardozo already uses some of them (physical barriers, monitoring from staff, different uniforms for middle and high school). And there will be Banneker high schoolers on the Shaw campus so either way 6th-12th will be in the same general vicinity.

c) and d) these have nothing to do with the building. Feeder patterns and curricular offerings can happen just as easily in Cardozo vs. a new Shaw middle school and it makes sense for parents to lobby for them.

The biggest issue Shaw parents have is that they should want the kids currently routed to Francis Stevens to also be sent to Cardozo, but this pits them against the families who like SWW middle school and don't want to go to Cardozo OR to Shaw (though some of the folks in the Ward 2 education network and those with very young kids might be swayed by additional ECE classrooms). Having all six schools feed to the same place is something DCPS and Grosso are more likely to support than building a new middle school, and pushing for it to offer advanced classes might just get thrown in there too as a salve to the SWW at F-S families.

[Anonymous]

Also, if you are a "pioneer" don't let this talk get to you or shake your resolve to push for a better system. I've lived here my whole adult life. This is a common intimidation tactic by some entrenched interest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with “leave us all alone” is that middle schools are by definition regional and the area around here (1) has middle grades at Cardozo in an umderfilled space and (2) is not a growth area for DC, even if people like you feel like “pioneers “ following the revitalization of downtown.

First of all, Cardozo isn't an option for most mid-city families. The test scores are atrocious, so it's no surprise that the school is under enrolled. I would never considered sending my children there. That leaves charter schools or private schools. Move the Middle School out of Cardozo and Shaw Middle could have been a viable option.

To your second point, I'm not sure what metrics you are using to say that the downtown area isn't growing. I've lived in Logan Circle for over 10 years. LC and Shaw haven't stopped growing in that time and the number of young families has increased dramatically. Instead of trying to find a way to retain these families in the area, DCPS makes decisions that will force many of these families to move or leave DCPS altogether.

+1 I have lived in Shaw for almost 10 years and the number of families has exploded. On just our block, we went from being the only family with kids to one of 6. That happened on every block.

Welcome to the Hill in the early 2000s. We still have a middle school problem. DCPS doesn't do middle school well across the city. Be careful what you wish for because you may end up with what they give you and not at all what you want.

We could certainly learn from the Hill but I have no idea what your point is. Don't fight for something better?

Not at all. Look at 14:28's message and see some concrete thought process.

You aren't getting a stand alone middle school at Shaw. Off the table. The reasons listed in the OP for why a stand alone middle school is needed are weak at best -- too far, differentiation (which DCPS doesn't do on the middle school level), strong elementary schools that lead to no where (Hill, still true with Hardy feeders in a lot of IB family minds), families forced to go charter or private, etc. DCPS and the city frankly don't want to hear this. What you need to present them is a plan which includes Banneker moving to the Shaw site and incorporating some of your most important asks. But again, differentiation and distance, at a minimum shouldn't be mentioned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with “leave us all alone” is that middle schools are by definition regional and the area around here (1) has middle grades at Cardozo in an umderfilled space and (2) is not a growth area for DC, even if people like you feel like “pioneers “ following the revitalization of downtown.

First of all, Cardozo isn't an option for most mid-city families. The test scores are atrocious, so it's no surprise that the school is under enrolled. I would never considered sending my children there. That leaves charter schools or private schools. Move the Middle School out of Cardozo and Shaw Middle could have been a viable option.

To your second point, I'm not sure what metrics you are using to say that the downtown area isn't growing. I've lived in Logan Circle for over 10 years. LC and Shaw haven't stopped growing in that time and the number of young families has increased dramatically. Instead of trying to find a way to retain these families in the area, DCPS makes decisions that will force many of these families to move or leave DCPS altogether.

+1 I have lived in Shaw for almost 10 years and the number of families has exploded. On just our block, we went from being the only family with kids to one of 6. That happened on every block.

Welcome to the Hill in the early 2000s. We still have a middle school problem. DCPS doesn't do middle school well across the city. Be careful what you wish for because you may end up with what they give you and not at all what you want.

We could certainly learn from the Hill but I have no idea what your point is. Don't fight for something better?

Not at all. Look at 14:28's message and see some concrete thought process.

You aren't getting a stand alone middle school at Shaw. Off the table. The reasons listed in the OP for why a stand alone middle school is needed are weak at best -- too far, differentiation (which DCPS doesn't do on the middle school level), strong elementary schools that lead to no where (Hill, still true with Hardy feeders in a lot of IB family minds), families forced to go charter or private, etc. DCPS and the city frankly don't want to hear this. What you need to present them is a plan which includes Banneker moving to the Shaw site and incorporating some of your most important asks. But again, differentiation and distance, at a minimum shouldn't be mentioned.

Why would Garnett-Patterson be off the table?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with “leave us all alone” is that middle schools are by definition regional and the area around here (1) has middle grades at Cardozo in an umderfilled space and (2) is not a growth area for DC, even if people like you feel like “pioneers “ following the revitalization of downtown.

First of all, Cardozo isn't an option for most mid-city families. The test scores are atrocious, so it's no surprise that the school is under enrolled. I would never considered sending my children there. That leaves charter schools or private schools. Move the Middle School out of Cardozo and Shaw Middle could have been a viable option.

To your second point, I'm not sure what metrics you are using to say that the downtown area isn't growing. I've lived in Logan Circle for over 10 years. LC and Shaw haven't stopped growing in that time and the number of young families has increased dramatically. Instead of trying to find a way to retain these families in the area, DCPS makes decisions that will force many of these families to move or leave DCPS altogether.

+1 I have lived in Shaw for almost 10 years and the number of families has exploded. On just our block, we went from being the only family with kids to one of 6. That happened on every block.

Welcome to the Hill in the early 2000s. We still have a middle school problem. DCPS doesn't do middle school well across the city. Be careful what you wish for because you may end up with what they give you and not at all what you want.

We could certainly learn from the Hill but I have no idea what your point is. Don't fight for something better?

Not at all. Look at 14:28's message and see some concrete thought process.

You aren't getting a stand alone middle school at Shaw. Off the table. The reasons listed in the OP for why a stand alone middle school is needed are weak at best -- too far, differentiation (which DCPS doesn't do on the middle school level), strong elementary schools that lead to no where (Hill, still true with Hardy feeders in a lot of IB family minds), families forced to go charter or private, etc. DCPS and the city frankly don't want to hear this. What you need to present them is a plan which includes Banneker moving to the Shaw site and incorporating some of your most important asks. But again, differentiation and distance, at a minimum shouldn't be mentioned.

Well, right off the bat that 14:28 message is wrong. Suggesting charter or OOB schools are far from Shaw and that works, so as a result a neighborhood middle could likewise be far....makes no sense. We live in Shaw, etc, because we value proximity. Yes, if I want to drive my kid to middle, I can move to the burbs. Disregarding the demographics of the city isn't going to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with “leave us all alone” is that middle schools are by definition regional and the area around here (1) has middle grades at Cardozo in an umderfilled space and (2) is not a growth area for DC, even if people like you feel like “pioneers “ following the revitalization of downtown.

First of all, Cardozo isn't an option for most mid-city families. The test scores are atrocious, so it's no surprise that the school is under enrolled. I would never considered sending my children there. That leaves charter schools or private schools. Move the Middle School out of Cardozo and Shaw Middle could have been a viable option.

To your second point, I'm not sure what metrics you are using to say that the downtown area isn't growing. I've lived in Logan Circle for over 10 years. LC and Shaw haven't stopped growing in that time and the number of young families has increased dramatically. Instead of trying to find a way to retain these families in the area, DCPS makes decisions that will force many of these families to move or leave DCPS altogether.

+1 I have lived in Shaw for almost 10 years and the number of families has exploded. On just our block, we went from being the only family with kids to one of 6. That happened on every block.

Do you think DC or DCPS cares if you leave or move? It'll just be another young family moving in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with “leave us all alone” is that middle schools are by definition regional and the area around here (1) has middle grades at Cardozo in an umderfilled space and (2) is not a growth area for DC, even if people like you feel like “pioneers “ following the revitalization of downtown.

First of all, Cardozo isn't an option for most mid-city families. The test scores are atrocious, so it's no surprise that the school is under enrolled. I would never considered sending my children there. That leaves charter schools or private schools. Move the Middle School out of Cardozo and Shaw Middle could have been a viable option.

To your second point, I'm not sure what metrics you are using to say that the downtown area isn't growing. I've lived in Logan Circle for over 10 years. LC and Shaw haven't stopped growing in that time and the number of young families has increased dramatically. Instead of trying to find a way to retain these families in the area, DCPS makes decisions that will force many of these families to move or leave DCPS altogether.

+1 I have lived in Shaw for almost 10 years and the number of families has exploded. On just our block, we went from being the only family with kids to one of 6. That happened on every block.

You are absolutely wrong about this. There is still opportunity to change these plans. Nothing in DC is written in stone.

(And of those families, all are attending or planning on attending seaton, and NONE plan to continue at Cardozo)

It is way, way too late to claw this back. Figure out what you want. Garnett-Patterson? Improvements at the Cardozo site? Because you missed the boat on Shaw Middle's building.

[Anonymous]

Going private or Charter will have a longish commute so the argument about Cardozo MS being too far away is bs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with “leave us all alone” is that middle schools are by definition regional and the area around here (1) has middle grades at Cardozo in an umderfilled space and (2) is not a growth area for DC, even if people like you feel like “pioneers “ following the revitalization of downtown.

First of all, Cardozo isn't an option for most mid-city families. The test scores are atrocious, so it's no surprise that the school is under enrolled. I would never considered sending my children there. That leaves charter schools or private schools. Move the Middle School out of Cardozo and Shaw Middle could have been a viable option.

To your second point, I'm not sure what metrics you are using to say that the downtown area isn't growing. I've lived in Logan Circle for over 10 years. LC and Shaw haven't stopped growing in that time and the number of young families has increased dramatically. Instead of trying to find a way to retain these families in the area, DCPS makes decisions that will force many of these families to move or leave DCPS altogether.

+1 I have lived in Shaw for almost 10 years and the number of families has exploded. On just our block, we went from being the only family with kids to one of 6. That happened on every block.

Welcome to the Hill in the early 2000s. We still have a middle school problem. DCPS doesn't do middle school well across the city. Be careful what you wish for because you may end up with what they give you and not at all what you want.

We could certainly learn from the Hill but I have no idea what your point is. Don't fight for something better?

Not at all. Look at 14:28's message and see some concrete thought process.

You aren't getting a stand alone middle school at Shaw. Off the table. The reasons listed in the OP for why a stand alone middle school is needed are weak at best -- too far, differentiation (which DCPS doesn't do on the middle school level), strong elementary schools that lead to no where (Hill, still true with Hardy feeders in a lot of IB family minds), families forced to go charter or private, etc. DCPS and the city frankly don't want to hear this. What you need to present them is a plan which includes Banneker moving to the Shaw site and incorporating some of your most important asks. But again, differentiation and distance, at a minimum shouldn't be mentioned.

Well, right off the bat that 14:28 message is wrong. Suggesting charter or OOB schools are far from Shaw and that works, so as a result a neighborhood middle could likewise be far....makes no sense. We live in Shaw, etc, because we value proximity. Yes, if I want to drive my kid to middle, I can move to the burbs. Disregarding the demographics of the city isn't going to work.

See that is just the beginning of your problem. As another poster said middle schools are regional. Not all kids can walk to their middle schools now. This is why Kids Ride free was implemented. You can value proximity but it doesn't mean that DCPS values (your) proximity on the middle school level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with “leave us all alone” is that middle schools are by definition regional and the area around here (1) has middle grades at Cardozo in an umderfilled space and (2) is not a growth area for DC, even if people like you feel like “pioneers “ following the revitalization of downtown.

First of all, Cardozo isn't an option for most mid-city families. The test scores are atrocious, so it's no surprise that the school is under enrolled. I would never considered sending my children there. That leaves charter schools or private schools. Move the Middle School out of Cardozo and Shaw Middle could have been a viable option.

To your second point, I'm not sure what metrics you are using to say that the downtown area isn't growing. I've lived in Logan Circle for over 10 years. LC and Shaw haven't stopped growing in that time and the number of young families has increased dramatically. Instead of trying to find a way to retain these families in the area, DCPS makes decisions that will force many of these families to move or leave DCPS altogether.

+1 I have lived in Shaw for almost 10 years and the number of families has exploded. On just our block, we went from being the only family with kids to one of 6. That happened on every block.

Welcome to the Hill in the early 2000s. We still have a middle school problem. DCPS doesn't do middle school well across the city. Be careful what you wish for because you may end up with what they give you and not at all what you want.

We could certainly learn from the Hill but I have no idea what your point is. Don't fight for something better?

Not at all. Look at 14:28's message and see some concrete thought process.

You aren't getting a stand alone middle school at Shaw. Off the table. The reasons listed in the OP for why a stand alone middle school is needed are weak at best -- too far, differentiation (which DCPS doesn't do on the middle school level), strong elementary schools that lead to no where (Hill, still true with Hardy feeders in a lot of IB family minds), families forced to go charter or private, etc. DCPS and the city frankly don't want to hear this. What you need to present them is a plan which includes Banneker moving to the Shaw site and incorporating some of your most important asks. But again, differentiation and distance, at a minimum shouldn't be mentioned.

How about they promised us a Shaw MS at the Shaw MS site for years and now they take it away with no notice and no public input.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with “leave us all alone” is that middle schools are by definition regional and the area around here (1) has middle grades at Cardozo in an umderfilled space and (2) is not a growth area for DC, even if people like you feel like “pioneers “ following the revitalization of downtown.

First of all, Cardozo isn't an option for most mid-city families. The test scores are atrocious, so it's no surprise that the school is under enrolled. I would never considered sending my children there. That leaves charter schools or private schools. Move the Middle School out of Cardozo and Shaw Middle could have been a viable option.

To your second point, I'm not sure what metrics you are using to say that the downtown area isn't growing. I've lived in Logan Circle for over 10 years. LC and Shaw haven't stopped growing in that time and the number of young families has increased dramatically. Instead of trying to find a way to retain these families in the area, DCPS makes decisions that will force many of these families to move or leave DCPS altogether.

+1 I have lived in Shaw for almost 10 years and the number of families has exploded. On just our block, we went from being the only family with kids to one of 6. That happened on every block.

Welcome to the Hill in the early 2000s. We still have a middle school problem. DCPS doesn't do middle school well across the city. Be careful what you wish for because you may end up with what they give you and not at all what you want.

We could certainly learn from the Hill but I have no idea what your point is. Don't fight for something better?

Not at all. Look at 14:28's message and see some concrete thought process.

You aren't getting a stand alone middle school at Shaw. Off the table. The reasons listed in the OP for why a stand alone middle school is needed are weak at best -- too far, differentiation (which DCPS doesn't do on the middle school level), strong elementary schools that lead to no where (Hill, still true with Hardy feeders in a lot of IB family minds), families forced to go charter or private, etc. DCPS and the city frankly don't want to hear this. What you need to present them is a plan which includes Banneker moving to the Shaw site and incorporating some of your most important asks. But again, differentiation and distance, at a minimum shouldn't be mentioned.

Well, right off the bat that 14:28 message is wrong. Suggesting charter or OOB schools are far from Shaw and that works, so as a result a neighborhood middle could likewise be far....makes no sense. We live in Shaw, etc, because we value proximity. Yes, if I want to drive my kid to middle, I can move to the burbs. Disregarding the demographics of the city isn't going to work.

It's nice that you value proximity. What doesn't work is an argument that Cardozo is too far so families will use private or charter schools. That is illogical because Cardozo is closer than those alternatives. Also, you don't need to drive your kid to Cardozo. If you live in Shaw (let's use the Shaw library as a reference point), your kid can walk one mile to Cardozo or take the 64 bus or the 70 bus or the green line and walk less. Kids get free metro cards and kids with disabilities can have transportation in the IEPs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with “leave us all alone” is that middle schools are by definition regional and the area around here (1) has middle grades at Cardozo in an umderfilled space and (2) is not a growth area for DC, even if people like you feel like “pioneers “ following the revitalization of downtown.

First of all, Cardozo isn't an option for most mid-city families. The test scores are atrocious, so it's no surprise that the school is under enrolled. I would never considered sending my children there. That leaves charter schools or private schools. Move the Middle School out of Cardozo and Shaw Middle could have been a viable option.

To your second point, I'm not sure what metrics you are using to say that the downtown area isn't growing. I've lived in Logan Circle for over 10 years. LC and Shaw haven't stopped growing in that time and the number of young families has increased dramatically. Instead of trying to find a way to retain these families in the area, DCPS makes decisions that will force many of these families to move or leave DCPS altogether.

+1 I have lived in Shaw for almost 10 years and the number of families has exploded. On just our block, we went from being the only family with kids to one of 6. That happened on every block.

Welcome to the Hill in the early 2000s. We still have a middle school problem. DCPS doesn't do middle school well across the city. Be careful what you wish for because you may end up with what they give you and not at all what you want.

We could certainly learn from the Hill but I have no idea what your point is. Don't fight for something better?

Not at all. Look at 14:28's message and see some concrete thought process.

You aren't getting a stand alone middle school at Shaw. Off the table. The reasons listed in the OP for why a stand alone middle school is needed are weak at best -- too far, differentiation (which DCPS doesn't do on the middle school level), strong elementary schools that lead to no where (Hill, still true with Hardy feeders in a lot of IB family minds), families forced to go charter or private, etc. DCPS and the city frankly don't want to hear this. What you need to present them is a plan which includes Banneker moving to the Shaw site and incorporating some of your most important asks. But again, differentiation and distance, at a minimum shouldn't be mentioned.

How about they promised us a Shaw MS at the Shaw MS site for years and now they take it away with no notice and no public input.

How about the total lack of progress, and the Banneker decisionmaking documents, should have been a tipoff.

[Anonymous]

Plus, advocating for nearby schools AND schools with differentiated education is counterproductive. It's easier to have tracked classes when more kids are at a school. But if the school draws from a wider geographic area that includes more kids, some kids are going to have to travel further for it.

Do you want 6 schools to feed into a single middle school that has tracked classes? Then ask for that. Do you not care if the school has 200 kids and 180 of them are below grade level so long as you can get there in 5 minutes? Then ask for Shaw, SWW, and Cardozo to all offer middle school.

Do you want a six-feeder middle school with gifted classes down the block from your house? Well, you can ask for it but I think you're going to be disappointed.

[Anonymous]

It always amazing me how many people in DCUM feel free to chime in to discussions that don't involve them. Take a poll of families in who live in Shaw regarding whether or not they want a stand-alone middle school. At our school it is unanimous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with “leave us all alone” is that middle schools are by definition regional and the area around here (1) has middle grades at Cardozo in an umderfilled space and (2) is not a growth area for DC, even if people like you feel like “pioneers “ following the revitalization of downtown.

First of all, Cardozo isn't an option for most mid-city families. The test scores are atrocious, so it's no surprise that the school is under enrolled. I would never considered sending my children there. That leaves charter schools or private schools. Move the Middle School out of Cardozo and Shaw Middle could have been a viable option.

To your second point, I'm not sure what metrics you are using to say that the downtown area isn't growing. I've lived in Logan Circle for over 10 years. LC and Shaw haven't stopped growing in that time and the number of young families has increased dramatically. Instead of trying to find a way to retain these families in the area, DCPS makes decisions that will force many of these families to move or leave DCPS altogether.

+1 I have lived in Shaw for almost 10 years and the number of families has exploded. On just our block, we went from being the only family with kids to one of 6. That happened on every block.

Welcome to the Hill in the early 2000s. We still have a middle school problem. DCPS doesn't do middle school well across the city. Be careful what you wish for because you may end up with what they give you and not at all what you want.

We could certainly learn from the Hill but I have no idea what your point is. Don't fight for something better?

Not at all. Look at 14:28's message and see some concrete thought process.

You aren't getting a stand alone middle school at Shaw. Off the table. The reasons listed in the OP for why a stand alone middle school is needed are weak at best -- too far, differentiation (which DCPS doesn't do on the middle school level), strong elementary schools that lead to no where (Hill, still true with Hardy feeders in a lot of IB family minds), families forced to go charter or private, etc. DCPS and the city frankly don't want to hear this. What you need to present them is a plan which includes Banneker moving to the Shaw site and incorporating some of your most important asks. But again, differentiation and distance, at a minimum shouldn't be mentioned.

How about they promised us a Shaw MS at the Shaw MS site for years and now they take it away with no notice and no public input.

You must be new here. That is standard operating procedure for DCPS.