APS/SA boundary redrawing - meeting tonight

[Anonymous]

Okay, more vetting of ideas. What would be wrong with Fleet taking more of the non-walking area of Barcroft, Barcroft taking the Kenmore-bound areas of Abingdon, and Drew taking the Fleet zone south of the Pike? That actually seems like it could improve Abingdon's alignment by giving away the Kenmore-bound zones, as Barcroft already splits between Jefferson and Kenmore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm kind of shocked they caved to the Henry families. Also surprised Alcova didnt get moved to Fleet. It seems like the county always caters to certain neighborhoods.

Without that neighborhood at Drew the farms rate will be over 80 percent, easily. That's why they didn't publish it in these documents. Itll be higher than carlin springs and they just don't care. Nauck wanted its own elementary and now APS is going to give it to them.

Drew and Randolph are now the poorest schools in the system, and were JUST MADE SO! There is nothing inevitable about these boundaries. People drew them, not god. It is some shameful sh&t to purposely create schools where all but 2 or 3 kids in a classroom are on food stamps. It is pure cowardice and negligence.

I know plenty of Randolph families who are not on food stamps. The 92% rate is confusing to me. Is that surely accurate?

The detail is in the footnote, usually what we see for schools is the enrolled FARMS rate, what percentage of children actually attending the school are part of the program. What is reflected in that table is the resident FARMS rate, what percentage of elementary students in the zone are part of the program, even if they don't attend the neighborhood school. So that 92% has backed out families who transfer to Randolph from other schools, and includes students who live in the Randolph zone but attend school elsewhere. Randolph sends a lot of kids to option schools, and a disproportionate number of them probably get into the option schools via VPI, so Randolph is sending a lot of FARMS students who live in the zone elsewhere, meaning their enrolled FARMS rate is lower than their resident FARMS rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm kind of shocked they caved to the Henry families. Also surprised Alcova didnt get moved to Fleet. It seems like the county always caters to certain neighborhoods.

But moving that 1/2 of Alcova Heights to Fleet and redistricting those units South of Columbia Pike would have only made Fleet richer and whiter, right?

I'm not PP but who cares? Honestly, I am sick of crocodile tears over the lily whiteness of some of the northern schools. You buy into Yorktown or similar, you are obviously just not that concerned about diversity. That's fine. You do you, I'm no county-wide busing proponent. But if, working within the parameters APS has said are important like maximizing walkers and minimizing alignment disruption, you can make a proposal that would alleviate severe concentration of poverty within a historically challenged school and you choose not to do that? I can't understand it.

Specifically with regard to Fleet, I wouldn't really call it rich and white. It's still around 1/4 to 1/3 low income. That's a pretty decent balance from whichever way you're looking at the issue.

I'm PP and don't follow you. The east side of Alcova Heights is higher income compared to the west side of Alcova Heights. Thus, moving all the higher income units from Barcroft to Fleet, and moving the lower income units (South of Columbia Pike) from Henry to other schools would make Henry/Fleet LOSE diversity. I don't follow what you are saying about crocodile tears. I have two kids at Patrick Henry, and want the entire community to go to Fleet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm kind of shocked they caved to the Henry families. Also surprised Alcova didnt get moved to Fleet. It seems like the county always caters to certain neighborhoods.

But moving that 1/2 of Alcova Heights to Fleet and redistricting those units South of Columbia Pike would have only made Fleet richer and whiter, right?

I'm not PP but who cares? Honestly, I am sick of crocodile tears over the lily whiteness of some of the northern schools. You buy into Yorktown or similar, you are obviously just not that concerned about diversity. That's fine. You do you, I'm no county-wide busing proponent. But if, working within the parameters APS has said are important like maximizing walkers and minimizing alignment disruption, you can make a proposal that would alleviate severe concentration of poverty within a historically challenged school and you choose not to do that? I can't understand it.

Specifically with regard to Fleet, I wouldn't really call it rich and white. It's still around 1/4 to 1/3 low income. That's a pretty decent balance from whichever way you're looking at the issue.

I'm PP and don't follow you. The east side of Alcova Heights is higher income compared to the west side of Alcova Heights. Thus, moving all the higher income units from Barcroft to Fleet, and moving the lower income units (South of Columbia Pike) from Henry to other schools would make Henry/Fleet LOSE diversity. I don't follow what you are saying about crocodile tears. I have two kids at Patrick Henry, and want the entire community to go to Fleet.

Right, I get that. What I was trying to convey is that I don't care if Henry/Fleet loses diversity because, to me, a relatively affluent zone concerned about losing some of its diversity is far outweighed by the needs of a concentrated poor zone looking for some relief. Your south-of-pike units that provide you with "diversity" would be a veritable oasis of low-poverty to Drew. And, while I can understand that it's nice to have a consistent and stable school community, I also believe that desire should be outweighed by providing relief to Drew. And yes, my family is in the Drew zone, so that's where I'm coming from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm kind of shocked they caved to the Henry families. Also surprised Alcova didnt get moved to Fleet. It seems like the county always caters to certain neighborhoods.

Without that neighborhood at Drew the farms rate will be over 80 percent, easily. That's why they didn't publish it in these documents. Itll be higher than carlin springs and they just don't care. Nauck wanted its own elementary and now APS is going to give it to them.

Drew and Randolph are now the poorest schools in the system, and were JUST MADE SO! There is nothing inevitable about these boundaries. People drew them, not god. It is some shameful sh&t to purposely create schools where all but 2 or 3 kids in a classroom are on food stamps. It is pure cowardice and negligence.

I know plenty of Randolph families who are not on food stamps. The 92% rate is confusing to me. Is that surely accurate?

The detail is in the footnote, usually what we see for schools is the enrolled FARMS rate, what percentage of children actually attending the school are part of the program. What is reflected in that table is the resident FARMS rate, what percentage of elementary students in the zone are part of the program, even if they don't attend the neighborhood school. So that 92% has backed out families who transfer to Randolph from other schools, and includes students who live in the Randolph zone but attend school elsewhere. Randolph sends a lot of kids to option schools, and a disproportionate number of them probably get into the option schools via VPI, so Randolph is sending a lot of FARMS students who live in the zone elsewhere, meaning their enrolled FARMS rate is lower than their resident FARMS rate.

DP. In other words, if every elem student in the Randolph zone stayed put, the FARMS rate would be 92%? But instead, many lower income transfer out via VPI and many higher income stay and attend Randolph? Sorry to be slow, just making sure I understand.

Is APS anticipating changes to the transfer-out rate or will that still happen? In other words, will the 92% be the real figure after the new lines are drawn and everyone starts in their new zone? Or will Randolph then drop down lower again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm kind of shocked they caved to the Henry families. Also surprised Alcova didnt get moved to Fleet. It seems like the county always caters to certain neighborhoods.

Without that neighborhood at Drew the farms rate will be over 80 percent, easily. That's why they didn't publish it in these documents. Itll be higher than carlin springs and they just don't care. Nauck wanted its own elementary and now APS is going to give it to them.

Drew and Randolph are now the poorest schools in the system, and were JUST MADE SO! There is nothing inevitable about these boundaries. People drew them, not god. It is some shameful sh&t to purposely create schools where all but 2 or 3 kids in a classroom are on food stamps. It is pure cowardice and negligence.

I know plenty of Randolph families who are not on food stamps. The 92% rate is confusing to me. Is that surely accurate?

The detail is in the footnote, usually what we see for schools is the enrolled FARMS rate, what percentage of children actually attending the school are part of the program. What is reflected in that table is the resident FARMS rate, what percentage of elementary students in the zone are part of the program, even if they don't attend the neighborhood school. So that 92% has backed out families who transfer to Randolph from other schools, and includes students who live in the Randolph zone but attend school elsewhere. Randolph sends a lot of kids to option schools, and a disproportionate number of them probably get into the option schools via VPI, so Randolph is sending a lot of FARMS students who live in the zone elsewhere, meaning their enrolled FARMS rate is lower than their resident FARMS rate.

DP. In other words, if every elem student in the Randolph zone stayed put, the FARMS rate would be 92%? But instead, many lower income transfer out via VPI and many higher income stay and attend Randolph? Sorry to be slow, just making sure I understand.

Is APS anticipating changes to the transfer-out rate or will that still happen? In other words, will the 92% be the real figure after the new lines are drawn and everyone starts in their new zone? Or will Randolph then drop down lower again.

Is crowding elsewhere so bad, that kids can’t transfer?
Also, the UMC of Douglas Park mostly do NOT send their kids to Randolph. A few do, most don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm kind of shocked they caved to the Henry families. Also surprised Alcova didnt get moved to Fleet. It seems like the county always caters to certain neighborhoods.

But moving that 1/2 of Alcova Heights to Fleet and redistricting those units South of Columbia Pike would have only made Fleet richer and whiter, right?

I'm not PP but who cares? Honestly, I am sick of crocodile tears over the lily whiteness of some of the northern schools. You buy into Yorktown or similar, you are obviously just not that concerned about diversity. That's fine. You do you, I'm no county-wide busing proponent. But if, working within the parameters APS has said are important like maximizing walkers and minimizing alignment disruption, you can make a proposal that would alleviate severe concentration of poverty within a historically challenged school and you choose not to do that? I can't understand it.

Specifically with regard to Fleet, I wouldn't really call it rich and white. It's still around 1/4 to 1/3 low income. That's a pretty decent balance from whichever way you're looking at the issue.

I'm PP and don't follow you. The east side of Alcova Heights is higher income compared to the west side of Alcova Heights. Thus, moving all the higher income units from Barcroft to Fleet, and moving the lower income units (South of Columbia Pike) from Henry to other schools would make Henry/Fleet LOSE diversity. I don't follow what you are saying about crocodile tears. I have two kids at Patrick Henry, and want the entire community to go to Fleet.

Right, I get that. What I was trying to convey is that I don't care if Henry/Fleet loses diversity because, to me, a relatively affluent zone concerned about losing some of its diversity is far outweighed by the needs of a concentrated poor zone looking for some relief. Your south-of-pike units that provide you with "diversity" would be a veritable oasis of low-poverty to Drew. And, while I can understand that it's nice to have a consistent and stable school community, I also believe that desire should be outweighed by providing relief to Drew. And yes, my family is in the Drew zone, so that's where I'm coming from.

Oh, now it makes sense. So you are disparaging others for looking out for their own self-interests and finally you admit that you’re only looking out for yours. Cool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm kind of shocked they caved to the Henry families. Also surprised Alcova didnt get moved to Fleet. It seems like the county always caters to certain neighborhoods.

Without that neighborhood at Drew the farms rate will be over 80 percent, easily. That's why they didn't publish it in these documents. Itll be higher than carlin springs and they just don't care. Nauck wanted its own elementary and now APS is going to give it to them.

Drew and Randolph are now the poorest schools in the system, and were JUST MADE SO! There is nothing inevitable about these boundaries. People drew them, not god. It is some shameful sh&t to purposely create schools where all but 2 or 3 kids in a classroom are on food stamps. It is pure cowardice and negligence.

I know plenty of Randolph families who are not on food stamps. The 92% rate is confusing to me. Is that surely accurate?

The detail is in the footnote, usually what we see for schools is the enrolled FARMS rate, what percentage of children actually attending the school are part of the program. What is reflected in that table is the resident FARMS rate, what percentage of elementary students in the zone are part of the program, even if they don't attend the neighborhood school. So that 92% has backed out families who transfer to Randolph from other schools, and includes students who live in the Randolph zone but attend school elsewhere. Randolph sends a lot of kids to option schools, and a disproportionate number of them probably get into the option schools via VPI, so Randolph is sending a lot of FARMS students who live in the zone elsewhere, meaning their enrolled FARMS rate is lower than their resident FARMS rate.

DP. In other words, if every elem student in the Randolph zone stayed put, the FARMS rate would be 92%? But instead, many lower income transfer out via VPI and many higher income stay and attend Randolph? Sorry to be slow, just making sure I understand.

Is APS anticipating changes to the transfer-out rate or will that still happen? In other words, will the 92% be the real figure after the new lines are drawn and everyone starts in their new zone? Or will Randolph then drop down lower again.

Yes, your understanding of the calculation is correct. I'm not sure why APS is presenting it this way (especially without also showing the enrolled FARMS rates for comparison), it's very confusing at first glance. I don't think they're expecting people will stop transferring out and the rate will go up to 92%, but maybe they're trying to be as transparent as possible given that they don't know yet how some of the changes (relocating Montessori, changing the option and transfer policy) will play out. Moving Montessori further away could mean fewer families send their kids there. Allowing North Arlington families equal lottery priority for Claremont and Campbell could crowd out some of the lottery transfers from Randolph. I don't know that it will be too big a change, though, because VPI students still have priority for the option schools over lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm kind of shocked they caved to the Henry families. Also surprised Alcova didnt get moved to Fleet. It seems like the county always caters to certain neighborhoods.

Without that neighborhood at Drew the farms rate will be over 80 percent, easily. That's why they didn't publish it in these documents. Itll be higher than carlin springs and they just don't care. Nauck wanted its own elementary and now APS is going to give it to them.

They posted the FARMS rates in the school-level data doc. Drew's FARMS rate will go down from 85% to 83%. So they can brag about reducing one of the above-average FARMS rates schools. (Which, btw, is disingenuous because Drew's current FARMS rate is much *lower* due to the Montessori program being co-located. So one could easily look at this as blowing out Drew's FARMS levels by quite a lot.)

Also worth mentioning that this is the first time they ever published the farms rate for the non-montessori portion. They've been hiding the truth for years and now they expect credit for "improving" it? NFW.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm kind of shocked they caved to the Henry families. Also surprised Alcova didnt get moved to Fleet. It seems like the county always caters to certain neighborhoods.

But moving that 1/2 of Alcova Heights to Fleet and redistricting those units South of Columbia Pike would have only made Fleet richer and whiter, right?

I'm not PP but who cares? Honestly, I am sick of crocodile tears over the lily whiteness of some of the northern schools. You buy into Yorktown or similar, you are obviously just not that concerned about diversity. That's fine. You do you, I'm no county-wide busing proponent. But if, working within the parameters APS has said are important like maximizing walkers and minimizing alignment disruption, you can make a proposal that would alleviate severe concentration of poverty within a historically challenged school and you choose not to do that? I can't understand it.

Specifically with regard to Fleet, I wouldn't really call it rich and white. It's still around 1/4 to 1/3 low income. That's a pretty decent balance from whichever way you're looking at the issue.

I'm PP and don't follow you. The east side of Alcova Heights is higher income compared to the west side of Alcova Heights. Thus, moving all the higher income units from Barcroft to Fleet, and moving the lower income units (South of Columbia Pike) from Henry to other schools would make Henry/Fleet LOSE diversity. I don't follow what you are saying about crocodile tears. I have two kids at Patrick Henry, and want the entire community to go to Fleet.

Right, I get that. What I was trying to convey is that I don't care if Henry/Fleet loses diversity because, to me, a relatively affluent zone concerned about losing some of its diversity is far outweighed by the needs of a concentrated poor zone looking for some relief. Your south-of-pike units that provide you with "diversity" would be a veritable oasis of low-poverty to Drew. And, while I can understand that it's nice to have a consistent and stable school community, I also believe that desire should be outweighed by providing relief to Drew. And yes, my family is in the Drew zone, so that's where I'm coming from.

Oh, now it makes sense. So you are disparaging others for looking out for their own self-interests and finally you admit that you’re only looking out for yours. Cool.

I'm not disparaging you or others in your shoes anymore than I would disparage myself. I can dish it out and take it. We and others like us are the reason we have impartial decision-makers and boards of directors, to mediate between our naked self-interest and make a decision that's best for the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm kind of shocked they caved to the Henry families. Also surprised Alcova didnt get moved to Fleet. It seems like the county always caters to certain neighborhoods.

Without that neighborhood at Drew the farms rate will be over 80 percent, easily. That's why they didn't publish it in these documents. Itll be higher than carlin springs and they just don't care. Nauck wanted its own elementary and now APS is going to give it to them.

They posted the FARMS rates in the school-level data doc. Drew's FARMS rate will go down from 85% to 83%. So they can brag about reducing one of the above-average FARMS rates schools. (Which, btw, is disingenuous because Drew's current FARMS rate is much *lower* due to the Montessori program being co-located. So one could easily look at this as blowing out Drew's FARMS levels by quite a lot.)

Also worth mentioning that this is the first time they ever published the farms rate for the non-montessori portion. They've been hiding the truth for years and now they expect credit for "improving" it? NFW.

That's actually not the case. See the post above (or page before, I don't remember), laying out enrolled FARMS rate vs. resident FARMS rate. 85%/83% are the resident FARMS rates, not enrolled FARMS rates. Drew, like Randolph, sends a lot of kids to option schools via VPI, so enrolled FARMS rate is lower than resident FARMS rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm kind of shocked they caved to the Henry families. Also surprised Alcova didnt get moved to Fleet. It seems like the county always caters to certain neighborhoods.

But moving that 1/2 of Alcova Heights to Fleet and redistricting those units South of Columbia Pike would have only made Fleet richer and whiter, right?

I'm not PP but who cares? Honestly, I am sick of crocodile tears over the lily whiteness of some of the northern schools. You buy into Yorktown or similar, you are obviously just not that concerned about diversity. That's fine. You do you, I'm no county-wide busing proponent. But if, working within the parameters APS has said are important like maximizing walkers and minimizing alignment disruption, you can make a proposal that would alleviate severe concentration of poverty within a historically challenged school and you choose not to do that? I can't understand it.

Specifically with regard to Fleet, I wouldn't really call it rich and white. It's still around 1/4 to 1/3 low income. That's a pretty decent balance from whichever way you're looking at the issue.

I'm PP and don't follow you. The east side of Alcova Heights is higher income compared to the west side of Alcova Heights. Thus, moving all the higher income units from Barcroft to Fleet, and moving the lower income units (South of Columbia Pike) from Henry to other schools would make Henry/Fleet LOSE diversity. I don't follow what you are saying about crocodile tears. I have two kids at Patrick Henry, and want the entire community to go to Fleet.

Right, I get that. What I was trying to convey is that I don't care if Henry/Fleet loses diversity because, to me, a relatively affluent zone concerned about losing some of its diversity is far outweighed by the needs of a concentrated poor zone looking for some relief. Your south-of-pike units that provide you with "diversity" would be a veritable oasis of low-poverty to Drew. And, while I can understand that it's nice to have a consistent and stable school community, I also believe that desire should be outweighed by providing relief to Drew. And yes, my family is in the Drew zone, so that's where I'm coming from.

Oh, now it makes sense. So you are disparaging others for looking out for their own self-interests and finally you admit that you’re only looking out for yours. Cool.

NP. It's possible to draw boundaries that reflect the countywide farms rate. But the resistance starts at the very north of north Arlington, who don't want ANY poor kids with their children, and rolls southward from there. If you send your kids to Henry now, you must be comfortable with a farms rate of about 35% - that's the county average and what Henry has. Drew parents just want the same thing. We could both have it, but people in north Arlington won't budge an inch. They're smiling, watching you two argue over self interest and ignoring the way they've put you in this predicament.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm kind of shocked they caved to the Henry families. Also surprised Alcova didnt get moved to Fleet. It seems like the county always caters to certain neighborhoods.

Without that neighborhood at Drew the farms rate will be over 80 percent, easily. That's why they didn't publish it in these documents. Itll be higher than carlin springs and they just don't care. Nauck wanted its own elementary and now APS is going to give it to them.

They posted the FARMS rates in the school-level data doc. Drew's FARMS rate will go down from 85% to 83%. So they can brag about reducing one of the above-average FARMS rates schools. (Which, btw, is disingenuous because Drew's current FARMS rate is much *lower* due to the Montessori program being co-located. So one could easily look at this as blowing out Drew's FARMS levels by quite a lot.)

Also worth mentioning that this is the first time they ever published the farms rate for the non-montessori portion. They've been hiding the truth for years and now they expect credit for "improving" it? NFW.

That's actually not the case. See the post above (or page before, I don't remember), laying out enrolled FARMS rate vs. resident FARMS rate. 85%/83% are the resident FARMS rates, not enrolled FARMS rates. Drew, like Randolph, sends a lot of kids to option schools via VPI, so enrolled FARMS rate is lower than resident FARMS rate.

But, Drew also sent a lot of kids to Hoffman-Boston due to the old Nauck civic ass'n option. I assume they're eliminating that, so more kids might be coming back to Drew than would otherwise be the case based on transfers alone?

[Anonymous]

^^^ Drew parent here. I don't think we need to go all VIVA SALA given the current predicament. Whether or not North Arlington wants poor students in their schools, the current reality as I accept it is that *no one* wants to be bused far away and we can't afford it anyway. The choice that I and the Henry parent have a dispute over is between keeping a school community basically entirely intact, or shaving some of that community off to go to Drew and help its FARMS rate. North Arlington can't solve that problem for us given circumstances as they currently exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm kind of shocked they caved to the Henry families. Also surprised Alcova didnt get moved to Fleet. It seems like the county always caters to certain neighborhoods.

Without that neighborhood at Drew the farms rate will be over 80 percent, easily. That's why they didn't publish it in these documents. Itll be higher than carlin springs and they just don't care. Nauck wanted its own elementary and now APS is going to give it to them.

They posted the FARMS rates in the school-level data doc. Drew's FARMS rate will go down from 85% to 83%. So they can brag about reducing one of the above-average FARMS rates schools. (Which, btw, is disingenuous because Drew's current FARMS rate is much *lower* due to the Montessori program being co-located. So one could easily look at this as blowing out Drew's FARMS levels by quite a lot.)

Also worth mentioning that this is the first time they ever published the farms rate for the non-montessori portion. They've been hiding the truth for years and now they expect credit for "improving" it? NFW.

That's actually not the case. See the post above (or page before, I don't remember), laying out enrolled FARMS rate vs. resident FARMS rate. 85%/83% are the resident FARMS rates, not enrolled FARMS rates. Drew, like Randolph, sends a lot of kids to option schools via VPI, so enrolled FARMS rate is lower than resident FARMS rate.

Not meaningfully lower, if it is. Look at the graded programs sol scores from the 2014 arlnow article. Sol scores correlate strongly with farms rates. They were lower, much lower than carlin springs, and that was before carlin turned into a cram factory. There is every reason to believe the actually enrolled Drew graded program is 80 percent farms or higher.