Residency Fraud growing at Appletree Institute

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's clear that Susie loses even if she gets a Pk3 / 4 slot for her child, as that child must now attend school outnumbered by those whose families have no integrity nor teach it to their children.

Susie and the relatively small proportion of taxpayers in DC are shouldering $4.5Million ($29.8K/yr X pk3-12) PER ACTUAL BONA FIDE DC resident student according to the conservative 10-to-1 fraudster rate apparent in almost any dropoff at DC schools.

Perhaps the easiest way to change is an education campaign aimed at would be buyers of the zillion units sold by developers. "This new condo sits on a tax $$$ black hole, don't worry the money will be used inefficiently bring criminals AND traffic into your 'hood." Developers have the biggest political sway in town anyhow, dwarfing patronage job recipients and the school staff, black church & 'poor' organizations that are Pro-fraud.

Those paying 22% on parking, 10% on restaurant meals, and de facto guilty parking tickets are SoL and perhaps the only dimes to come from PG county residents here to plunder.

You believe that $29.8 x 15 (pk3-12) is $4.5 million? You're not that bright - it would actually be $477K, but that's overstated. The conservative Heritage Foundation estimates about $350K per student overall.
https://www.heritage.org/education/commentary/high-public-school-spending-dc-hasnt-produced-desired-outcomes

Black churches are mostly interested in teaching the gospel. Speaking of which, I'm Jewish, but I have a hard time picturing Jesus lobbying to kick kids out of schools.

Again, the fact that this (real, legitimate issue) has become a racist hobby horse does more to ensure that it will never be dealt with than anything else. The bottom line issue is that there are a lot of kids in DC who -- due to the luck of where they are born -- go to awful schools in terrible, dangerous neighborhoods. An approach that focused on targeting resources to help those kids (by excluding people committing fraud for convenience) makes sense. But, these posters can't bring themselves to even pretend that fraud is their concern long enough to make that argument because the urge to spew racist nonsense is too strong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's clear that Susie loses even if she gets a Pk3 / 4 slot for her child, as that child must now attend school outnumbered by those whose families have no integrity nor teach it to their children.

Susie and the relatively small proportion of taxpayers in DC are shouldering $4.5Million ($29.8K/yr X pk3-12) PER ACTUAL BONA FIDE DC resident student according to the conservative 10-to-1 fraudster rate apparent in almost any dropoff at DC schools.

Perhaps the easiest way to change is an education campaign aimed at would be buyers of the zillion units sold by developers. "This new condo sits on a tax $$$ black hole, don't worry the money will be used inefficiently bring criminals AND traffic into your 'hood." Developers have the biggest political sway in town anyhow, dwarfing patronage job recipients and the school staff, black church & 'poor' organizations that are Pro-fraud.

Those paying 22% on parking, 10% on restaurant meals, and de facto guilty parking tickets are SoL and perhaps the only dimes to come from PG county residents here to plunder.

You believe that $29.8 x 15 (pk3-12) is $4.5 million? You're not that bright - it would actually be $477K, but that's overstated. The conservative Heritage Foundation estimates about $350K per student overall.
https://www.heritage.org/education/commentary/high-public-school-spending-dc-hasnt-produced-desired-outcomes

Black churches are mostly interested in teaching the gospel. Speaking of which, I'm Jewish, but I have a hard time picturing Jesus lobbying to kick kids out of schools.

Again, the fact that this (real, legitimate issue) has become a racist hobby horse does more to ensure that it will never be dealt with than anything else. The bottom line issue is that there are a lot of kids in DC who -- due to the luck of where they are born -- go to awful schools in terrible, dangerous neighborhoods. An approach that focused on targeting resources to help those kids (by excluding people committing fraud for convenience) makes sense. But, these posters can't bring themselves to even pretend that fraud is their concern long enough to make that argument because the urge to spew racist nonsense is too strong.

I agree that the racially charged nature of the debate is part of what perpetuates the fraud and prevents resolution. While I can't speak to boundary fraud, a small group of concerned folks of many races have been taking notes, photos and evidence. The overwhelming number appeared to be African American (all but 1/174 observed dropoffs actually). I strongly encourage you to go to ANY desirable school at dropoff and post any observed divergence.

I don't think many DC taxpayers care what race the fraud perps are as long they aren't allowed to continue.

The $29.8k/yr is an official stat from the last year available, 2015, by National Center for Education Statistics and perhaps don't include all the capital expenditures on shiny new construction. $4.5M is the cost of educating 10 children, which conservatively includes only 9 rather than the OP's 11 fraud perps per DC child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've said this before and I'll say it again, the problem is not the paper work. Parents are turning in the paper work that shows they are residents when they aren't. The problem is how easy it is to fool the system

+1
I'm hoping that they start to do more to cross-check information with other governments offices--the address you give for your school enrollment application should match the address on your tax returns, your driver's license, the address that the local benefits office has on file for you, etc. A discrepancy = an automatic audit. If there's a good reason why things don't match up--fine. If not, you're out.

This would be pretty easy to do if DC wanted to do it. They don't. Very few DC voters care enough to push the city government to enforce the rules. But Gramma votes in DC, and she'll be mad if her grandchildren who live in MD get kicked out of a DC school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's clear that Susie loses even if she gets a Pk3 / 4 slot for her child, as that child must now attend school outnumbered by those whose families have no integrity nor teach it to their children.

Susie and the relatively small proportion of taxpayers in DC are shouldering $4.5Million ($29.8K/yr X pk3-12) PER ACTUAL BONA FIDE DC resident student according to the conservative 10-to-1 fraudster rate apparent in almost any dropoff at DC schools.

Perhaps the easiest way to change is an education campaign aimed at would be buyers of the zillion units sold by developers. "This new condo sits on a tax $$$ black hole, don't worry the money will be used inefficiently bring criminals AND traffic into your 'hood." Developers have the biggest political sway in town anyhow, dwarfing patronage job recipients and the school staff, black church & 'poor' organizations that are Pro-fraud.

Those paying 22% on parking, 10% on restaurant meals, and de facto guilty parking tickets are SoL and perhaps the only dimes to come from PG county residents here to plunder.

You believe that $29.8 x 15 (pk3-12) is $4.5 million? You're not that bright - it would actually be $477K, but that's overstated. The conservative Heritage Foundation estimates about $350K per student overall.
https://www.heritage.org/education/commentary/high-public-school-spending-dc-hasnt-produced-desired-outcomes

Black churches are mostly interested in teaching the gospel. Speaking of which, I'm Jewish, but I have a hard time picturing Jesus lobbying to kick kids out of schools.

Again, the fact that this (real, legitimate issue) has become a racist hobby horse does more to ensure that it will never be dealt with than anything else. The bottom line issue is that there are a lot of kids in DC who -- due to the luck of where they are born -- go to awful schools in terrible, dangerous neighborhoods. An approach that focused on targeting resources to help those kids (by excluding people committing fraud for convenience) makes sense. But, these posters can't bring themselves to even pretend that fraud is their concern long enough to make that argument because the urge to spew racist nonsense is too strong.

I agree that the racially charged nature of the debate is part of what perpetuates the fraud and prevents resolution. While I can't speak to boundary fraud, a small group of concerned folks of many races have been taking notes, photos and evidence. The overwhelming number appeared to be African American (all but 1/174 observed dropoffs actually). I strongly encourage you to go to ANY desirable school at dropoff and post any observed divergence.

I don't think many DC taxpayers care what race the fraud perps are as long they aren't allowed to continue.

The $29.8k/yr is an official stat from the last year available, 2015, by National Center for Education Statistics and perhaps don't include all the capital expenditures on shiny new construction. $4.5M is the cost of educating 10 children, which conservatively includes only 9 rather than the OP's 11 fraud perps per DC child.

There aren't 9 fraudulent students for every bona fide resident student. There are only 90,000-100,000 or so kids in the school system, your math implies only 9,000-10,000 DC kids go to DC schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem is that people think because they feel dc or big mama lives there that they can escape the nightmare that are PG schools and drop off on their way to legacy DC gov jobs that they aren’t really classically qualified for. The DC gov turns a blind eye because they don’t want to have a crack down mostly effect black people and appear to be bowing down to the recent white residents. As if enforcing rules and financial compliance are white people things

If you want boundary fraud not to be investigated or taken seriously, you are doing exactly the right thing.

By conflating your creepy white nationalist/race baiting views with the real issue of boundary enforcement, you make it much easier for people of good will to dismiss the real issue. I care deeply about this issue, and even I almost want DC government to focus on other priorities when I read posts like yours.

Also, I doubt you have ever been to PG county.

Residency fraud is more about free stuff (before and after care, on the commute route to the DC DMV) than it is about bad schools in PG.

[Anonymous]

I have a coworker who openly told me that her grandchildren use her address for DC schools. She responded with "I pay taxes here, so they can use the schools" to my quizzical look. It was appalling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a coworker who openly told me that her grandchildren use her address for DC schools. She responded with "I pay taxes here, so they can use the schools" to my quizzical look. It was appalling.

Did you report her?

[Anonymous]

every single person on here who is complaining because they claim to know a cheater, just stop and go report it to the school and the central office. absolutely nothing will change from your complaining to other complainers on this site.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a coworker who openly told me that her grandchildren use her address for DC schools. She responded with "I pay taxes here, so they can use the schools" to my quizzical look. It was appalling.

Did you report her?

I don't know her kids' or grandkids' names nor do I know the school they attend. Not sure how I could.

[Anonymous]

My family was investigated a few years ago following an enrollment audit. Simply because I signed our child's enrollment forms but we used a copy of DH's license as proof of residency. We both have the same last name and we all live together, but I recall it taking several weeks, phone calls and meetings to straighten out. How do people who really are cheating manage to dodge these investigations???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My family was investigated a few years ago following an enrollment audit. Simply because I signed our child's enrollment forms but we used a copy of DH's license as proof of residency. We both have the same last name and we all live together, but I recall it taking several weeks, phone calls and meetings to straighten out. How do people who really are cheating manage to dodge these investigations???

They are more carefully during the enrollment process than you were.

The paperwork pretty clearly states that the person who signs the enrollment form must be the one presenting the proof of residency documents. People who are cheating are more likely to read these documents closely and make sure they are not doing anything to attract undue attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My family was investigated a few years ago following an enrollment audit. Simply because I signed our child's enrollment forms but we used a copy of DH's license as proof of residency. We both have the same last name and we all live together, but I recall it taking several weeks, phone calls and meetings to straighten out. How do people who really are cheating manage to dodge these investigations???

The family I know who was investigated were granted a hearing. They gave a sob story about bad financial and other circumstances requiring child to live with grandma. Meanwhile child did not live with grandma and parents are both gainfully employed MD taxpayers. It’s quite easy to falsify an informal custody arrangement under the regs - all that is needed is a letter from the parent stating kid is living with someone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My family was investigated a few years ago following an enrollment audit. Simply because I signed our child's enrollment forms but we used a copy of DH's license as proof of residency. We both have the same last name and we all live together, but I recall it taking several weeks, phone calls and meetings to straighten out. How do people who really are cheating manage to dodge these investigations???

The family I know who was investigated were granted a hearing. They gave a sob story about bad financial and other circumstances requiring child to live with grandma. Meanwhile child did not live with grandma and parents are both gainfully employed MD taxpayers. It’s quite easy to falsify an informal custody arrangement under the regs - all that is needed is a letter from the parent stating kid is living with someone else.

So what happened - were they booted and forced to pay for the previous time in DCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My family was investigated a few years ago following an enrollment audit. Simply because I signed our child's enrollment forms but we used a copy of DH's license as proof of residency. We both have the same last name and we all live together, but I recall it taking several weeks, phone calls and meetings to straighten out. How do people who really are cheating manage to dodge these investigations???

The family I know who was investigated were granted a hearing. They gave a sob story about bad financial and other circumstances requiring child to live with grandma. Meanwhile child did not live with grandma and parents are both gainfully employed MD taxpayers. It’s quite easy to falsify an informal custody arrangement under the regs - all that is needed is a letter from the parent stating kid is living with someone else.

So what happened - were they booted and forced to pay for the previous time in DCPS?

Nope their case was dismissed after the hearing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My family was investigated a few years ago following an enrollment audit. Simply because I signed our child's enrollment forms but we used a copy of DH's license as proof of residency. We both have the same last name and we all live together, but I recall it taking several weeks, phone calls and meetings to straighten out. How do people who really are cheating manage to dodge these investigations???

The family I know who was investigated were granted a hearing. They gave a sob story about bad financial and other circumstances requiring child to live with grandma. Meanwhile child did not live with grandma and parents are both gainfully employed MD taxpayers. It’s quite easy to falsify an informal custody arrangement under the regs - all that is needed is a letter from the parent stating kid is living with someone else.

So what happened - were they booted and forced to pay for the previous time in DCPS?

Nope their case was dismissed after the hearing.

And this is part of the problem. When you only have one employee investigating residency fraud and what appears to be minimal resources for that office, you can't do things like... send an investigator to sit outside the MD house for a while to see where the children are actually sleeping.