Starting to think about college for our gifted kid

[Anonymous]

Boring unnecessary busy work like what — math facts?Spelling lists?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not going to read through the whole thread so sorry if this is repetitive. But I would not worry about developing a good “work ethic” too much at this point. Elementary school homework is often profoundly boring for the gifted and forcing them to do it may just make them burn out or turn off school. Focus on the assignments that are inherently challenging (Like writing a biography) and ignore the stuff that is just busy work for them. Focus on encouraging and feeding heir interests and also try to encourage the thinking that a challenge is good, and of something is hard, hat just means it’s more interesting. Most gifted kids skate through early elementary and then when they get to something they actually need to learn, they get frustrated quickly because they’ve never had to actually try to learn something. Focus on feeding their passion for learning and curiosity—I think that’s worth investing some of your income there (so if they are passionate about archaeology, take them to Jamestown and, if you’ve got the cash, Italy. Or at least take them to the museums downtown and hit the library to find books on that topic.)

Also, I actually don’t think mediocre grades in hS are the end of the world. A lot of gifted kids are really bored by many HS classes so they check out. In college, they can find more challenging classes that are in tune with their interests and then real bloom and end up at a great graduate school. Sometimes the kids that are more focused on getting across the board A’s and being “well rounded” for college applications never really find their passion. That was sort of me. I went to a top college, did great, but never really focused in on what I love. I’ve got a fine career, but I know others that did much worse in HS that have careers they really love.

I really disagree with the bolded statement. First, if the assignments are ridiculously easy, then they can be polished off quickly and accurately and kid can move on to other things. The “that’s beneath you”/“ignore the boring stuff” attitude is really damaging in the long run for a host of reasons. By contrast, developing speed and accuracy wrt rote tasks is quite useful. Secondly, the boring vs inherently challenging distinction removes the kid’s agency. It’s worth recognizing, from an early age, that you can raise the bar yourself. Finding what’s interesting and learning how to engage/motivate yourself are important life skills.

This applies to everyone, not just gifted kids.

I disagree with this though - early elementary school busy work is totally overdone and not a good use of anyone’s time. A little bit, sure. But really playtime, building things or just about any other activity is more valuable at this age. A lot of kids become totally disengaged from school when they are inundated with a lot of boring unnecessary busy work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not going to read through the whole thread so sorry if this is repetitive. But I would not worry about developing a good “work ethic” too much at this point. Elementary school homework is often profoundly boring for the gifted and forcing them to do it may just make them burn out or turn off school. Focus on the assignments that are inherently challenging (Like writing a biography) and ignore the stuff that is just busy work for them. Focus on encouraging and feeding heir interests and also try to encourage the thinking that a challenge is good, and of something is hard, hat just means it’s more interesting. Most gifted kids skate through early elementary and then when they get to something they actually need to learn, they get frustrated quickly because they’ve never had to actually try to learn something. Focus on feeding their passion for learning and curiosity—I think that’s worth investing some of your income there (so if they are passionate about archaeology, take them to Jamestown and, if you’ve got the cash, Italy. Or at least take them to the museums downtown and hit the library to find books on that topic.)

Also, I actually don’t think mediocre grades in hS are the end of the world. A lot of gifted kids are really bored by many HS classes so they check out. In college, they can find more challenging classes that are in tune with their interests and then real bloom and end up at a great graduate school. Sometimes the kids that are more focused on getting across the board A’s and being “well rounded” for college applications never really find their passion. That was sort of me. I went to a top college, did great, but never really focused in on what I love. I’ve got a fine career, but I know others that did much worse in HS that have careers they really love.

I really disagree with the bolded statement. First, if the assignments are ridiculously easy, then they can be polished off quickly and accurately and kid can move on to other things. The “that’s beneath you”/“ignore the boring stuff” attitude is really damaging in the long run for a host of reasons. By contrast, developing speed and accuracy wrt rote tasks is quite useful. Secondly, the boring vs inherently challenging distinction removes the kid’s agency. It’s worth recognizing, from an early age, that you can raise the bar yourself. Finding what’s interesting and learning how to engage/motivate yourself are important life skills.

This applies to everyone, not just gifted kids.

I disagree with this though - early elementary school busy work is totally overdone and not a good use of anyone’s time. A little bit, sure. But really playtime, building things or just about any other activity is more valuable at this age. A lot of kids become totally disengaged from school when they are inundated with a lot of boring unnecessary busy work.

Applies to everyone, not just gifted kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Boring unnecessary busy work like what — math facts?Spelling lists?

Spelling is best learned through reading and looking up the words while you are reading.

[Anonymous]

I was profoundly gifted and I struggled HARD in college. I had never learned how to learn and study and I found out I have ADD - but my mom had basically set up an environment where I was functioning well due to having a schedule, regular sleep, lots of physical activity, etc. I didn’t know how to monitor my ADD and take care of myself to function without meds until my late 20s. I had a generous scholarship to a top engineering school and lost it my junior year when my grades dipped below a 3.0 for a semester.

It all turned out ok. But I would not count on any scholarships or aid. I would save the same for all 3 kids. I would focus more on developing good work ethic, problem solving skills and study habits than worry about the money part.

[Anonymous]

Mastery is different from comprehension and mastery takes practice. So a kid might ”get” something immediately but that doesn’t mean s/he’s done with it — able to access and use it with ease. And being bored isn’t a badge of intelligence, it can be a marker of a refusal or inability to engage.

So say your kid already knows how to spell the assigned vocabulary words and doesn’t need to practice that skill by using them in sentences. Is it better to encourage your kid to blow the assignment off or to use the sentence assignment to write a story or make subtle distinctions between words that are loosely synonymous or to incorporate rhymes or puns?

Plan B makes the exercise fun and worthwhile and shows the teacher not only that the kid gets it but that s/he can (and is eager to) do more. Blowing off assignments to avoid boredom won’t make your kid love school more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boring unnecessary busy work like what — math facts?Spelling lists?

Spelling is best learned through reading and looking up the words while you are reading.

Vocabulary may be best learned/introduced/expanded through reading (and using a dictionary), but spelling and word usage are reinforced/refined through writing. And it’s not as if these are either-or propositions. A pg kid can write 10-20 sentences and still find time to read. And if s/he can’t there’s probably an LD in the mix that needs to be diagnosed and addressed.

[Anonymous]

In every job that must be done
There is an element of fun
You find the fun and snap!
The job's a game
And every task you undertake
Becomes a piece of cake
A lark! A spree! It’s very clear to see

Just realized what a formative influence Mary Poppins (the movie) had on me, LOL!

[Anonymous]

OP you might want to take a peak at the AAP forum (which is basically a top 10% program in Fairfax County Virginia) but understand that many of the people there aren't truly gifted ie top 1-2% and it can get a bit crazy over there ie more about how to game the system to get into it. I think if you frame the question how you did here you will generally get helpful advice

When I was in late elementary and middle school I did a program called Center for Talented Youth at Johns Hopkins University https://cty.jhu.edu/ again not sure where you actually live. I'm assuming other colleges have similar programs

Good Luck to you and your kid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not going to read through the whole thread so sorry if this is repetitive. But I would not worry about developing a good “work ethic” too much at this point. Elementary school homework is often profoundly boring for the gifted and forcing them to do it may just make them burn out or turn off school. Focus on the assignments that are inherently challenging (Like writing a biography) and ignore the stuff that is just busy work for them. Focus on encouraging and feeding heir interests and also try to encourage the thinking that a challenge is good, and of something is hard, hat just means it’s more interesting. Most gifted kids skate through early elementary and then when they get to something they actually need to learn, they get frustrated quickly because they’ve never had to actually try to learn something. Focus on feeding their passion for learning and curiosity—I think that’s worth investing some of your income there (so if they are passionate about archaeology, take them to Jamestown and, if you’ve got the cash, Italy. Or at least take them to the museums downtown and hit the library to find books on that topic.)

Also, I actually don’t think mediocre grades in hS are the end of the world. A lot of gifted kids are really bored by many HS classes so they check out. In college, they can find more challenging classes that are in tune with their interests and then real bloom and end up at a great graduate school. Sometimes the kids that are more focused on getting across the board A’s and being “well rounded” for college applications never really find their passion. That was sort of me. I went to a top college, did great, but never really focused in on what I love. I’ve got a fine career, but I know others that did much worse in HS that have careers they really love.

I really disagree with the bolded statement. First, if the assignments are ridiculously easy, then they can be polished off quickly and accurately and kid can move on to other things. The “that’s beneath you”/“ignore the boring stuff” attitude is really damaging in the long run for a host of reasons. By contrast, developing speed and accuracy wrt rote tasks is quite useful. Secondly, the boring vs inherently challenging distinction removes the kid’s agency. It’s worth recognizing, from an early age, that you can raise the bar yourself. Finding what’s interesting and learning how to engage/motivate yourself are important life skills.

This applies to everyone, not just gifted kids.

I disagree with this though - early elementary school busy work is totally overdone and not a good use of anyone’s time. A little bit, sure. But really playtime, building things or just about any other activity is more valuable at this age. A lot of kids become totally disengaged from school when they are inundated with a lot of boring unnecessary busy work.

Applies to everyone, not just gifted kids.

I'm the OP that said the bolded statement. I agree that it applies to everyone, not just gifted kids. But the notion of what's interesting and challenging can be different for gifted kids. For a kid that doesn't know much about science and is still learning to read, a very easy text that sets out really basic facts might be really interesting and engaging. For a kid that is reading at a high school level and is already very knowledgeable about that topic, it might be just painful to read that. You're better off going to the library and getting something that is appropriately challenging for them. It's the same with certain worksheets that focus on drilling skills -- if the child has long since achieved that skill, there's not much point to making them drill it over and over again. If you don't get how painful it is, go sit through a first or second grade class on grammar, where they spend an hour trying to explain what a noun is.
I think my kids' teachers do a great job, and I am not one of the huge critics of public school education. But the truth is that it is not very well tailored to an individual kid's capabilities. As a result, each kid gets too much of some things and not enough of other things. I think it's okay to do some tailoring yourself so you keep your child engaged. I don't think that needs to lead to a snotty "that's beneath me" attitude. I just think that age 9 is not necessarily the time to teach "work ethic," at least when it comes to homework. We do teach "work ethic" in other areas at that age, including things like picking up your toys, clearing your plate after dinner, etc. But those are tasks for which I have a ready explanation as to why they are important. If the child asks me why they need to do sheets and sheets of addition facts, when they've known those facts for years, I don't have a ready explanation. I have a good work ethic, but I've quit jobs where I was repeatedly asked to do pointless tasks. Work ethic means chipping in and stepping up to get stuff done -- I don't think it means doing stuff just for the sake of doing it.
But I agree that there's some fine lines to be drawn and a delicate balance. I try to figure it out all the time. But I do think I spent too long forcing my kids to do work they hated, because I thought they "should".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Save equally for all your kids and beware of emphasizing this kid's abilities over your other kids. Furthermore, profoundly gifted kids are extremely common in this area. The chips will fall where they may many years from now. As a parent of teens I can tell you that life throws you and them curve balls that you never anticipated.

If her grades are stellar, her test scores perfect and she has a well-developed passion, she will likely get a full-ride somewhere. Look for the best match - not just an Ivy when the time comes. Likely there will be money available if the system stays the same between now and then. Most likely the system won't though!

+1

I have a gifted DC, a high school junior with a perfect GPA and perfect PSAT scores. So far, DC has earned 5s on four AP exams. DC also has a talent for which DC is nationally ranked.

We need merit aid to send her anywhere private, but top-ranked schools do not award merit aid. Money is available for these kids, but not at elite schools.

OP, assuming you can't pay full price, and don't qualify for need-based aid, you will need to get comfortable with sending your gifted child to a state school or a lower-ranked private.

[Anonymous]

You are putting a lot of eggs in one basket if you count on her sailing though school and getting a scholarship. Here's a partial list of things that can go wrong:

* she gets sick
* you get sick
* she does drugs
* she underachieves because she feels like it (or maybe because of the pressure of being the kid you didn't save for)
* she develops some emotional or psychiatric issue that makes school success difficult and life expensive.
* she is gifted, but prefers sports or painting
* the political climate makes merit money less available.
* she gets a free-ride at A but you prefer school B

Just worry about developing who she is and continue to save.

I don't know what will happen exactly, but I can be sure she will surprise you and not always in a good way. I know this because that's what teens do.

[Anonymous]

My point (I’m the PP who disagreed with the bolded text) is that “instill a work ethic” and “skip the boring parts” aren't the only two options. Do it quickly and move on is one option, especially in ES. Find a way to make it interesting and/or challenging is another.

A third might be propose an alternative that meets the teacher’s objective. I actually had a lot of luck with that one in ES — and, in retrospect, I think part of the reason teachers had me work with other students was they were trying to find alternatives for me in some cases. There were interpersonal rewards from helping (got to know and appreciate kids I wouldn’t have met, got satisfaction from seeing them do better), but also intellectual rewards — learning how to explain, thinking of different strategies, seeing that different people thought and learned different ways.

FWIW, I think the classroom example is a different problem than the worksheet issue. Yeah, it’s boring to have no control over the pace at which you receive information and there are social issues. There the challenge is to learn how to pay sufficient attention that you can respond if questioned while simultaneously finding something entertaining and non-disruptive to do. Or talking your way into doing something else. Again, good life skills.

[Anonymous]

Unless she end up with great grades and great SATs scores, you should save for college. Merit aids are given not on how gifted the child is, but on what scores they bring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Make sure her work ethic remains strong as she continues through schooling. Getting good merit aid comes down to class rank, GPA, and test scores. You cannot report an IQ score to get merit scholarships. As a GT student she'll likely excel at standardized testing, but it'll be the atmosphere you create for her at home that will determine her motivation to excel. I know too many extremely bright students who found high school to be above them and did not give it much effort. They got close to perfect scores on the SAT, but their GPA was far too low for any top university (let alone merit aid).

This. I keep telling my kid it is not enough to be smart.