5th grade girls - is this typical?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yep, DD told me that a group of popular girls told DD's best friend that she could hang out with them if she lost weight because she was too fat right now

That hurts my heart. I'm so sorry. Much love to you both

[Anonymous]

Take her to see Mean Girls downtown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mom of 9th and 7th graders, this is a developmental stage that peaks in 7th.

Someone recommended this book "Untangled" about girls' developmental stages and it's been very useful to me.

One thing to note is that what your kid describes as "popular" is actually "powerful" as in, socially powerful--girls using threats of exclusion or shaming to advance/maintain their social status, and keep the other girls non-differentiated. Powerful girls in these younger ages are learning that this works for them, but they have not yet figured out the long-term repercussions of this behavior...

when kids are younger, they are cowed into line by this; by 10th, they are mature enough to say "I don't care if Larla shames me, she's a bully and I'm not (conforming)." And Larla's social status drops and that's when Larla learns that she is actually not liked much; i.e., not powerful anymore and was never popular (in the true sense of the word).

My 7th grader just got a load of this at Halloween. Her basketball coach, who is a young guy not skilled in girl development, referred to her as "my best player" in front of the other girls. Well that's practically like assigning a mean girl to get my DD back in line, socially.

The girls had a Halloween party and all dressed in the same outfit and did not tell my DD. We drove up to a swarm of identically-dressed girls, and it was so shocking I stopped the car short and asked DD if she knew about this and if she was ok with it, before letting her out. Fortunately my kid has other friends and is psychologically protected from this group for a variety of (non-relevant) reasons, so she put up with it.

As a side note, I'm glad you posted your OP, because I decided while writing this post that I'm going to get our coach that book. He is very committed to his teams and each girl individually, but he doesn't understand that some things that motivate boys just backfire on girls. In my example above, if it were a boy's team, being called out as the best may incentivize a teammate to both admire that kid, and practice harder and better to become the best like that kid. But with girls, who are in a "cocooning" stage and want to blend in their group, any call-outs are embarrassing and unhelpful.

Sweet Jesus, don't tell the man how to coach. The entire world will not be curated to her specific sensitivities - let her learn. She's not all girls, she's just one girl. There may well be a young lady who is motivated by just that. Don't extrapolate.

[Anonymous]

Girls start early, boys aren't immune to mean behavior. The best thing you can do for your child is to have them move on to friends who actually want them around. Micromanaging only hurts your child, in the long run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is typical, and unfortunately it gets worse until college or young adulthood. This is why most of my friends were guys in high school.

So the idea that girls are all drama and social games, and guys are straightforward no-drama types, is actually sexism. If you couldn't find any girls in high school who didn't play social games, that says something about you, not about girls.

Please, guys are just as bad, they just socially manipulate differently than girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you want your kid to confident and self-assured relative to their age, and to avoid silly issues, then get your kid active and involved in activities. Sports, art, church, scouts, music, dance , volunteer work, etc. . .

A kid with other friend groups can blow by lots of petty crap.

Astute advice

Busy and driven kids don’t have time for this shit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a tough time OP - I second the Queen Bees and Wannabes Book - it has lots of great practical advice. I would also talk to your daughter about finding true friends and not getting caught up in the drama. The kids that manage to navigate tween drama best seem to lay low and not get involved/react to the nonsense. Hang in there - it does get better.

If I could put in a heart emoji, I would Thank you.

I third the Queen Bees book and also suggest Odd Girl Out (Rachel Simmons). Additionally, I would suggest speaking with the guidance counselors and/or principal at your daughter's school. Relational aggression among girls spreads fast and the school will want to tamp it down as quickly as possible. And I know I saw at least one reference on this thread to the Mean Girls show but as much as I thought it was a good show your daughter, in 5th grade, is much too young for it and it really would not be appropriate for her to see.

[Anonymous]

My DD was especially happy to get away from two groups of mean girls at her elementary school (she’s now in sixth grade). One group was friendly K-3 and then became increasingly obnoxious and exclusionary through 5th grade (they’d decided only hang out with kids who lived within a ten block radius). The other group openly mocked my daughter because she’s biracial (the girls in the second group were black). They told DD about a party she wasn’t invited to because she wasn’t “black enough”.

Thank goodness she had the chance to start over in private school and has been having an amazing year so far. The other day she said, “At my new school I feel like I can just be myself”. Thank goodness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mom of 9th and 7th graders, this is a developmental stage that peaks in 7th.

Someone recommended this book "Untangled" about girls' developmental stages and it's been very useful to me.

One thing to note is that what your kid describes as "popular" is actually "powerful" as in, socially powerful--girls using threats of exclusion or shaming to advance/maintain their social status, and keep the other girls non-differentiated. Powerful girls in these younger ages are learning that this works for them, but they have not yet figured out the long-term repercussions of this behavior...

when kids are younger, they are cowed into line by this; by 10th, they are mature enough to say "I don't care if Larla shames me, she's a bully and I'm not (conforming)." And Larla's social status drops and that's when Larla learns that she is actually not liked much; i.e., not powerful anymore and was never popular (in the true sense of the word).

My 7th grader just got a load of this at Halloween. Her basketball coach, who is a young guy not skilled in girl development, referred to her as "my best player" in front of the other girls. Well that's practically like assigning a mean girl to get my DD back in line, socially.

The girls had a Halloween party and all dressed in the same outfit and did not tell my DD. We drove up to a swarm of identically-dressed girls, and it was so shocking I stopped the car short and asked DD if she knew about this and if she was ok with it, before letting her out. Fortunately my kid has other friends and is psychologically protected from this group for a variety of (non-relevant) reasons, so she put up with it.

As a side note, I'm glad you posted your OP, because I decided while writing this post that I'm going to get our coach that book. He is very committed to his teams and each girl individually, but he doesn't understand that some things that motivate boys just backfire on girls. In my example above, if it were a boy's team, being called out as the best may incentivize a teammate to both admire that kid, and practice harder and better to become the best like that kid. But with girls, who are in a "cocooning" stage and want to blend in their group, any call-outs are embarrassing and unhelpful.

Sweet Jesus, don't tell the man how to coach. The entire world will not be curated to her specific sensitivities - let her learn. She's not all girls, she's just one girl. There may well be a young lady who is motivated by just that. Don't extrapolate.

Top PP here and I understand why you wrote that. Was trying to not get into tangent, but many if not all the girls have problems with the coach, and the club owners have been trying to work with him along these lines. It's affected their play (he's very "fixed mindset")

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you ever read Judy Blume's Blubber when you were younger? Even if you did, it is worth a re-read. It was written in the 70s, but it absolutely nails the meanness and awful social dynamics of 5th grade girls. Trust me, this stuff is not new. Social media may facilitate it, but the hormonal stew that starts brewing around 5th grade has long been a source of this kind of social brinkmanship and cruelty.

I haven't read it, but I will check it out. When my DD's best friend teamed up with another to be cruel to my daughter, I was really caught off=guard. She's the one kid who I've always thought was a really, genuinely nice person and her parents don't tolerate rudeness. I'm hoping this was a one-time thing, but that's probably a fairytale.

Not excusing your daughter's BFF but my guess is the BFF did it to avoid being the target herself.

[Anonymous]

First off, yes this happens in 5th grade. To those berating the mom for micromanaging, you don't get how delicate a situation this can be. We want our kids to learn to manage, but no parent should just step all the way back. Just yesterday there was yet ANOTHER article about a kid (age 11) who committed suicide over bullying. I think you need to stop belittling parents who care. Yes, we cannot micromanage, but we all have to figure out how much of a role to play based on our own kids.

That said, OP at my kid's school the "lunch bunches" are for kids with social skills issues (like one of my kids) or for kids having enough drama in their friendships that a parent calls and asks for the schools help in working with the kids. I cannot imagine it would even be just a bunch of cool girls getting to be exclusive. More likely these "popular" girls are having problems getting along with eachother.

Many HUGS to you OP. It's hard. I'm right there with you. And yes, boys do this too, but it has a different flavor in our case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm seeing random surprising exclusion as well and it's on racial lines. I encourage my daughter to like who she likes, be friends with who she wants to be friends with and not let others influence her feelings. So far, she has been excluded (she is a poc) and she has chosen to be friends with girls who are openly ostracized. She has accepted a diminished role which bothers me so I am offering alternative activities that will open her social group.

The part that I've found difficult is group events where my daughter has input or control (birthday party or other event at our house) and she invites friends who are taboo according to the popular girls even though they are part of our everyday lives. We invite but they choose not to come. It feels bad but I don't see a solution except to stop parties - and I think I am headed that direction.

“A diminished role” in what? Sounds like she made friends and YOU don’t like them because they are not popular. You are awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be a lot of exclusion or random meanness hailing in the 5th grade at my daughter’s school. It started with kids being label as popular. How does that happen in ES? Apparently, those girls, “like to gossip and talk to boys a lot.” I’m not sure what that even means as I heard it from another girl. Then, some girls started finding ways to have lunch outside the cafeteria, but act secretive about it when asked. I’m not talking about a lunch club with the guidance counselor. They were using it to be exclusive. The teachers shut down one of their lunch clubs, but it doesn’t seem to have gone away. Just recently, my daughter’s BFF came up to her with and ther girl and said things meant to hurt her feelings and exclude her. I tried to figure out if there was a trigger, but it seems just random. WTH is going on? What is my roll and how do I help my daughter navigate what seems to be a much more complicated social world?

Is this a private school? At our private it isn't an option to eat outside the cafeteria.

[Anonymous]

This is an interesting thread. Growing up I was always somewhat nerdy and shy. I was never cool but I picked friends like me and they were solid an loyal. I think when the social dynamics change, you should encourage your daughters to seek out others like themselves instead of reaching to still try and be accepted by and ultimately hurt by former friends who want to be popular. That is the best advice I can give. I never felt lonely or left out because I would find just one or two people like myself and make friends with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting thread. Growing up I was always somewhat nerdy and shy. I was never cool but I picked friends like me and they were solid an loyal. I think when the social dynamics change, you should encourage your daughters to seek out others like themselves instead of reaching to still try and be accepted by and ultimately hurt by former friends who want to be popular. That is the best advice I can give. I never felt lonely or left out because I would find just one or two people like myself and make friends with them.

+1

To many parents, living vicariously, try to force friendships on behalf of their children (who have long since been old enough to make their own social arrangements). Back off, control freak parents -- you are helping no one, least of all, your own children.