Take the D3 offer or not?

[Anonymous]

+! Similar situation. Selected based on educational opportunities at a university although he thought he would love playing for the LAC. Knowing him well, we advised him to really think about whether he could see himself on a small campus for 4 years especially if injured. The university opened up not only the opportunity to play that sport but others plus a multitude of ECs in his other interests. He's very happy. All this to say that the athletic offers are very flattering but these athletes have often been so focused on their sport, it's hard for them to see beyond it. If the offer is clearly for a top choice school w/o the sport and it helps with admission, take it and run. But if you have an uncomfortable feeling about the match, acting as a sounding board (not the decision maker) is not a bad thing. BTW - The D3 offers were made for the ED cycle and then offers to play extended to RD once he was admitted on his own academic merits. Turned out great as he felt no obligation to play when different interests arose and were more compelling. It was nerve wracking in the interim between the early and regular admission cycles. Good luck on your journey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The coach is not being straight forward with you as the date to commit is far off. Don't play into their games of we need to know now etc. They know the rules and assume you don't.

The ED deadline is typically around October 15. It is binding.

To the OP, I would take the offer. The Ivy Leagues are crap shoots. The D3 coach will not offer this same deal during the regular decision round.

Yes, we learned this the hard way. What was a promise of admission in ED became a deny in RD (despite very high stats) because DC had obviously signaled that the school was not her first choice. They are focused on yields at that point.

Not OP, but can you elaborate on this? The coach promised to use one of his/her admission slots for your athlete ED but not for RD? Thanks

[Anonymous]

Coaches only have slots in ED. Given none by Admissions for RD so can't help with academic exceptions. For a high stats kid, coaches will still talk to admissions but their ability to push is much reduced. It is possible to get in RD on academic merit alone and still end up playing as the ED slots are very few e.g.1-2 and teams need more players than that. For the kid who needs a guarantee, ED is it.

[Anonymous]

I don't know, that's tough.

Say it's Williams and Harvard or Williams and Yale or Williams and Princeton. (Williams being the only LAC that is competitive with the ivies).

Who in their right mind would choose Williams over Harvard, Yale, or Princeton? A degree from any of the latter can set you up for life. (fwiw I went to Cornell and I still find it helpful all these years later and Cornell is considered a "lower" ivy).

Williams is a GREAT school, don't get me wrong. But graduating from there, you're in for a lifetime of "where?" It's not like being able to drop the H bomb.

[Anonymous]

Take the Div 3. Then he can actually take the courses he wants to take and not live in the Div 1 bubble of easy bachelor courses since the sport is full time and the school is part time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know, that's tough.

Say it's Williams and Harvard or Williams and Yale or Williams and Princeton. (Williams being the only LAC that is competitive with the ivies).

Who in their right mind would choose Williams over Harvard, Yale, or Princeton? A degree from any of the latter can set you up for life. (fwiw I went to Cornell and I still find it helpful all these years later and Cornell is considered a "lower" ivy).

Williams is a GREAT school, don't get me wrong. But graduating from there, you're in for a lifetime of "where?" It's not like being able to drop the H bomb.

This is an obnoxious phrase. Still, it's true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know, that's tough.

Say it's Williams and Harvard or Williams and Yale or Williams and Princeton. (Williams being the only LAC that is competitive with the ivies).

Who in their right mind would choose Williams over Harvard, Yale, or Princeton? A degree from any of the latter can set you up for life. (fwiw I went to Cornell and I still find it helpful all these years later and Cornell is considered a "lower" ivy).

Williams is a GREAT school, don't get me wrong. But graduating from there, you're in for a lifetime of "where?" It's not like being able to drop the H bomb.

Newsflash - bachelors in an ivy doesn't set you up for life. A graduate or PHD from one will. Second newsflash:

Students
Harvard College: About 6,700
Graduate and professional students: About 15,250
Total: About 22,000


The OP's child will never play actively on a D1 team, even if they make the D1 team. They will also have to dummy down their studies to survive and have ZERO outside life.

Go to the D3, play actively and contribute to the team. Get great grades and move onto Harvard for graduate when you can fully concentrate on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know, that's tough.

Say it's Williams and Harvard or Williams and Yale or Williams and Princeton. (Williams being the only LAC that is competitive with the ivies).

Who in their right mind would choose Williams over Harvard, Yale, or Princeton? A degree from any of the latter can set you up for life. (fwiw I went to Cornell and I still find it helpful all these years later and Cornell is considered a "lower" ivy).

Williams is a GREAT school, don't get me wrong. But graduating from there, you're in for a lifetime of "where?" It's not like being able to drop the H bomb.

Newsflash - bachelors in an ivy doesn't set you up for life. A graduate or PHD from one will. Second newsflash:

Students
Harvard College: About 6,700
Graduate and professional students: About 15,250
Total: About 22,000


The OP's child will never play actively on a D1 team, even if they make the D1 team. They will also have to dummy down their studies to survive and have ZERO outside life.

Go to the D3, play actively and contribute to the team. Get great grades and move onto Harvard for graduate when you can fully concentrate on it.

The bolded statement is not true for our generation, at least. I know many people who upwardly fail through life because of where they went to school and their money and connections. You can't tell me you don't know the same. I won't believe you.

Jared Kushner is just the most notorious example of this but it's everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child has a few days to decide on an athletics commitment. I have to be a little broad here since it'd be too easy to identify him.

His performance is not good enough to be on the team for the Ivies- he didn't get much if any interest from the coaches. However, his stats are quite competitive all in all- ACT in the 99%, close to 4.0 UW, good recommendations, etc.

He has received attention from several Division III programs, including from 3 LACs ranked in the top 10. He likes the appeal of playing on the team with certainty and he is especially fond of one of the schools in particular. The coach has stated that if he applies early, he will almost certainly get in. This is at a school with an acceptance rate under 15%, so having such a promise is pretty compelling. However, if he does not apply early, he cannot count on the coach's support.

But his top choice at the moment is one of the Ivies which did not give him much attention. He's concerned that it could be telling that he wouldn't be competitive if he were to apply. The LAC would be his 2nd or third choice.

What should he do in this situation?

I think he should think about it like this: he is very, very unlikely to get into the Ivy. So few kids get in, especially from this area, even with nearly perfect stats, without some other hook/coach support. It's hard to give up the dream of the reach, but it's good to be realistic about just how unlikely it is. Plus, he won't get to play his sport there. IF he really cares about playing, the D3 school is a fantastic option -- it's a school he also might not get into otherwise, even with his great stats, plus he will have the best of both worlds in terms of great academics and playing his support without the huge commitment of D1 level sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know, that's tough.

Say it's Williams and Harvard or Williams and Yale or Williams and Princeton. (Williams being the only LAC that is competitive with the ivies).

Who in their right mind would choose Williams over Harvard, Yale, or Princeton? A degree from any of the latter can set you up for life. (fwiw I went to Cornell and I still find it helpful all these years later and Cornell is considered a "lower" ivy).

Williams is a GREAT school, don't get me wrong. But graduating from there, you're in for a lifetime of "where?" It's not like being able to drop the H bomb.

A 15% acceptance rate was mentioned. That means five schools: Williams, Pomona, Amherst, Bowdoin, and Swarthmore. All five of those schools are considered the equivalent of the non-HYP Ivies, with plenty of students annually turning one or several down to go to them. Of course they aren't going to compare to HYP. But who can count on getting into one of those three?

But they do compare to the non-HYPs. According to the top feeder schools into grad school from a 2003 survey, they are right alongside the Ivies (HYP = 1, 2, 3, Williams = 5, Dartmouth = 7, Amherst = 9, Swarthmore = 10, Columbia = 11, Brown = 12, Pomona = 13, Penn = 16, Bowdoin = 19, Cornell = 25). On a size adjusted basis, they outperform the non HYP Ivies for fellowships won by students. According to PayScale, the mid-career salaries of alumni at those LACs at least beats one of the Ivies, and they all rank within the top 50 nationally.

In essence, having a golden entry to one of them is a big deal. You're definitely not giving them the credit that their results merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know, that's tough.

Say it's Williams and Harvard or Williams and Yale or Williams and Princeton. (Williams being the only LAC that is competitive with the ivies).

Who in their right mind would choose Williams over Harvard, Yale, or Princeton? A degree from any of the latter can set you up for life. (fwiw I went to Cornell and I still find it helpful all these years later and Cornell is considered a "lower" ivy).

Williams is a GREAT school, don't get me wrong. But graduating from there, you're in for a lifetime of "where?" It's not like being able to drop the H bomb.

A 15% acceptance rate was mentioned. That means five schools: Williams, Pomona, Amherst, Bowdoin, and Swarthmore. All five of those schools are considered the equivalent of the non-HYP Ivies, with plenty of students annually turning one or several down to go to them. Of course they aren't going to compare to HYP. But who can count on getting into one of those three?

But they do compare to the non-HYPs. According to the top feeder schools into grad school from a 2003 survey, they are right alongside the Ivies (HYP = 1, 2, 3, Williams = 5, Dartmouth = 7, Amherst = 9, Swarthmore = 10, Columbia = 11, Brown = 12, Pomona = 13, Penn = 16, Bowdoin = 19, Cornell = 25). On a size adjusted basis, they outperform the non HYP Ivies for fellowships won by students. According to PayScale, the mid-career salaries of alumni at those LACs at least beats one of the Ivies, and they all rank within the top 50 nationally.

In essence, having a golden entry to one of them is a big deal. You're definitely not giving them the credit that their results merit.

+1. Williams is known as the Little Harvard. During an admitted students session, there were a number of kids favouring Williams over HYP. They do compare. No Williams connection on my part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know, that's tough.

Say it's Williams and Harvard or Williams and Yale or Williams and Princeton. (Williams being the only LAC that is competitive with the ivies).

Who in their right mind would choose Williams over Harvard, Yale, or Princeton? A degree from any of the latter can set you up for life. (fwiw I went to Cornell and I still find it helpful all these years later and Cornell is considered a "lower" ivy).

Williams is a GREAT school, don't get me wrong. But graduating from there, you're in for a lifetime of "where?" It's not like being able to drop the H bomb.

A 15% acceptance rate was mentioned. That means five schools: Williams, Pomona, Amherst, Bowdoin, and Swarthmore. All five of those schools are considered the equivalent of the non-HYP Ivies, with plenty of students annually turning one or several down to go to them. Of course they aren't going to compare to HYP. But who can count on getting into one of those three?

But they do compare to the non-HYPs. According to the top feeder schools into grad school from a 2003 survey, they are right alongside the Ivies (HYP = 1, 2, 3, Williams = 5, Dartmouth = 7, Amherst = 9, Swarthmore = 10, Columbia = 11, Brown = 12, Pomona = 13, Penn = 16, Bowdoin = 19, Cornell = 25). On a size adjusted basis, they outperform the non HYP Ivies for fellowships won by students. According to PayScale, the mid-career salaries of alumni at those LACs at least beats one of the Ivies, and they all rank within the top 50 nationally.

In essence, having a golden entry to one of them is a big deal. You're definitely not giving them the credit that their results merit.

Don't rule out Tufts either

[Anonymous]

Good point. People with high academic kids are so hung up on Ivy they ignore the other highly ranked schools that want your kid. It's a buyers market and they the elite schools can pick among the world's kids. At my kid's university, the top students are all the best from their countries. Think hard about who really would value what your kid brings to the table before throwing away that early card.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know, that's tough.

Say it's Williams and Harvard or Williams and Yale or Williams and Princeton. (Williams being the only LAC that is competitive with the ivies).

Who in their right mind would choose Williams over Harvard, Yale, or Princeton? A degree from any of the latter can set you up for life. (fwiw I went to Cornell and I still find it helpful all these years later and Cornell is considered a "lower" ivy).

Williams is a GREAT school, don't get me wrong. But graduating from there, you're in for a lifetime of "where?" It's not like being able to drop the H bomb.

There are defin. more LACS that are competitive with ivies including Amherst, Bowdoin, Carleton, Pomona, Swat. Others may have a diff list but academics at those 5 are top notch along with undergrad focus means students are really well set-up for grad. school and careers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The coach is not being straight forward with you as the date to commit is far off. Don't play into their games of we need to know now etc. They know the rules and assume you don't.

The ED deadline is typically around October 15. It is binding.

To the OP, I would take the offer. The Ivy Leagues are crap shoots. The D3 coach will not offer this same deal during the regular decision round.

Yes, we learned this the hard way. What was a promise of admission in ED became a deny in RD (despite very high stats) because DC had obviously signaled that the school was not her first choice. They are focused on yields at that point.

Not OP, but can you elaborate on this? The coach promised to use one of his/her admission slots for your athlete ED but not for RD? Thanks

Pretty much what 10:20 said. The difference here is that my kid did have high stats so was a good candidate for RD. But once she said she wasn’t doing ED the coach stopped emailing/responding. The coaches are going to focus on their committed kids. DC applied RD and was denied and we think (but don’t know for sure) that it’s because they knew the school wasn’t her first choice. .