Does APS have a duty of care to move a child if situation in current school untenable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am assuming your child does not have an IEP, and the rest of this answer is premised upon that fact-- if child does, answer might be a little different.

I seriously doubt there is any legal duty to move your child to a school of your choosing under this fact pattern. You can consult an attorney if you want- but I would not recommend having the attorney represent you to the school system-- I think that will just make them defensive.
If they were considering a voluntarily transfer- and the school you wanted to switch to is at the point where bringing your child would cause them to have to add another class- they will not do that (and their class ratios are pretty much set in stone- they won't go over them.)
You mention Montessori that worked well. I'm assuming you are either at Drew and want out (in which case you do have the 'right' to go to your neighborhood school.) or you are not at Drew and want it (in which case you probably would be able to unless they are really hitting ratios.)
I actually think APS does cater to individual parents a fair amount- so they probably will transfer your child- just not necessarily to the school of your choosing.
I'm not sure what level you are talking at. Keep in mind who has the power to do what-- talking to the principal won't get you anywhere b/c they can't transfer.
You are probably best off talking to individual school board members- https://www.apsva.us/contact-the-school-board/
If you are being offered a transfer to a school that you don't think has 'academic excellence' you probably will not get very far with them. I would focus on what you think is the best fit for your child and their unique needs vs trashing another school.

Thank you for this though my child does have an IEP for language processing and "ADHD"

Why is ADHD in quotes here?

I'm sorry - that was one of the diagnoses but we just don't see it.
Psychiatrist recommended ADHD meds STAT at age 5. We did not administer the meds and chose a wait and see approach. Teachers have found no evidence either as I check in with them very regularly and ask them to tell me immediately if child is disruptive in any way so that we can look into meds. I always get the crazy parent look as in child fine, why are you insisting they need meds. Child focuses, listens to instructions and readily complies, is conscientious, no more distracted than any of the other kids their age. Hence the "". Sorry if I upset anyone. "" specific to my child's situation not ADHD as a diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I was away yesterday so I couldn't check in. Thank you for the responses. They help in clarifying the extent of APS's legal duty of care. We are in a very unique situation- hence my reluctance to discuss. The closedt I can give is same sex couple (and much much more complicated but I'll leave it there for now) and school has no others. Child happy with set up at earlier Montessori school but at current public children have made the most hideous yet innocent remarks to child. Cannot blame school per se because they don't control their demographic. Can't blame little children( 5-7 range) because they know no better through no fault of their own. So many remarks that child is just in pain.
Parents chat with child-check
School counselor-check. Child poured out everything from an open ended question.
Private therapist- check
Tears have already started as school drawing near. Doesn't NOT want to go
To answer a PP's question I have gone as high up the chain of command as I can, cap in hand. At first shown compassion and given promise that all will be fine to get child to school where all thought would be best fit- few more with similar parents without compromising academic excellence provided by current school.

Next meeting a lot of back pedaling-space originally available no longer free. given a lot of information about numbers per teacher that are carved in stone. Totally gutted as seemed so positive at earlier meeting.
Now school in 3ish weeks and nothing achieved. Process started in March/April (when requests for transfers due).

So, would it help to engage a lawyer? Has anyone done this and ended up at school that is best fit and not just any school that is not the current school?
Sick to my stomach as I get asked daily now how many more sleeps until school, seeing pain and fear in child's eyes and tears.
How I wish could do private or homeschool

What has the school done to address this issue with the other children? Our APS elementary school is pretty pro-active when there is some sort of unkindness going on about getting the counselor into the classrooms to do sessions generally on respect for others, but also more directly educating on the particular issues (e.g., kids were asking insensitive questions of a child with an older sibling with a very obvious and distinctive disability; school counselor came in and did a session about how people are all different and are all special and valuable with particular reference to people with disabilities, and then taught the kids about being kind and respectful toward and about people who are different from themselves).

School admits they are remiss in this area but are taking/will be taking steps to address. How? By ensuring more "diversity" at the pre-k level were there is a choice in whom they admit. I just don't want the child there a minute longer while they try to address. They said would implement sessions such as the ones you mention and, maybe I'm being too sensitive here as we just have to be thick skinned in our situation as it's probably always going to be tricky, I keep imagining a session where they are talking about this issue with my child being the only one to whom it can possibly relate, at least on the face of things. I suppose it could help others who may need an environment where they can be themselves as it were. I'd rather they had a fresh start where there are already others like them. Already too much hurt in current environment but kudos to School for stepping up to the plate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm
Afraid for your child that another school will not solve the issue. How do you have any idea that another school will have more accepting children? Did the school last year do anything to educate the children about whatever the issue is? Talk about empathy and kindness? Why do you think children at another school will be better?

I was told which schools by the person with whom I had the meeting. I selected one based on the number of similar situations with strong academics. Not many good schools from which to choose. I was given 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a low SES school would actually be better and more accepting...more diversity means accepting all types of diversity among students.

Another Poster. I disagree.

I'm a little concerned about OP's statements that the comments were "hideous but innocent."

I am sympathetic, OP, but it sounds like this is not a case of bullying--which puts a different spin on this issue. Bullying is usually not innocent.

It's hard to figure out the situation from what you have said. If it is just that you have a non-traditional family, that is one thing. If your child does not fit a traditional model, that is another issue.

If the comments are truly innocent, I think you are going to have to face the issue head on with your child. You should request the help of the school, but I am not sure changing schools would get a different result.

Now, if it is bullying--then, a school change might be better. Nevertheless, I think you have to work with your child to understand that you have a different living situation from most, but that you are a family and that is fine--just different.

Unfortunately, part of this is that all kids want to be accepted, and they frequently think (erroneously) that being the same as everyone else is acceptance. Certainly, being different may make it more difficult, but it should not. Different does not mean worse. It only means different.

OP HERE- I keep forgetting to say that, hope clear in other responses. I definitely would not call it "bullying" in the real sense. Kids are young, don't understand and ask questions and put forward hypotheses my child finds extremely embarrassing to field and is too young to explain even with the coaching we have given. Some comments sound mean to my child but when they explain the context to me I can understand other child's misunderstandings and misperceptions.
And yes, it is this yearning to be not be different yet knowing they can do nothing about being different and being too young to understand why that is causing the pain. Direct quote " I dont know how to be happy being xxx". I want to go to heaven because I know I'll always be happy there." Or " Okay parent, I don't want to kill myself ( when I'm in tears over child saying they want to do just that) , I just don't want to be here anymore."

There are no words to describe the pain we, as parents, feel for dearest child who can't help their situation.

[Anonymous]

So you moved from DC to the suburbs, and to a wealthy school, all in search of "excellent academics" for an early elementary schooler.

But once you got there, you realized that the rich kids weren't particularly kind, nor particularly worldly about different families, cultures, etc?

Yeah. That's why most of us avoid the suburbs. This is a known problem, and fairly predictable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm
Afraid for your child that another school will not solve the issue. How do you have any idea that another school will have more accepting children? Did the school last year do anything to educate the children about whatever the issue is? Talk about empathy and kindness? Why do you think children at another school will be better?

I was told which schools by the person with whom I had the meeting. I selected one based on the number of similar situations with strong academics. Not many good schools from which to choose. I was given 3.

What is your definition of a "good" school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a low SES school would actually be better and more accepting...more diversity means accepting all types of diversity among students.

Another Poster. I disagree.

I'm a little concerned about OP's statements that the comments were "hideous but innocent."

I am sympathetic, OP, but it sounds like this is not a case of bullying--which puts a different spin on this issue. Bullying is usually not innocent.

It's hard to figure out the situation from what you have said. If it is just that you have a non-traditional family, that is one thing. If your child does not fit a traditional model, that is another issue.

If the comments are truly innocent, I think you are going to have to face the issue head on with your child. You should request the help of the school, but I am not sure changing schools would get a different result.

Now, if it is bullying--then, a school change might be better. Nevertheless, I think you have to work with your child to understand that you have a different living situation from most, but that you are a family and that is fine--just different.

Unfortunately, part of this is that all kids want to be accepted, and they frequently think (erroneously) that being the same as everyone else is acceptance. Certainly, being different may make it more difficult, but it should not. Different does not mean worse. It only means different.

OP HERE- I keep forgetting to say that, hope clear in other responses. I definitely would not call it "bullying" in the real sense. Kids are young, don't understand and ask questions and put forward hypotheses my child finds extremely embarrassing to field and is too young to explain even with the coaching we have given. Some comments sound mean to my child but when they explain the context to me I can understand other child's misunderstandings and misperceptions.
And yes, it is this yearning to be not be different yet knowing they can do nothing about being different and being too young to understand why that is causing the pain. Direct quote " I dont know how to be happy being xxx". I want to go to heaven because I know I'll always be happy there." Or " Okay parent, I don't want to kill myself ( when I'm in tears over child saying they want to do just that) , I just don't want to be here anymore."

There are no words to describe the pain we, as parents, feel for dearest child who can't help their situation.

Is your child still in private therapy?

I admit, I'm having trouble understanding this situation. I appreciate you want your privacy I won't argue with that, but I'm also having a hard time imagining how your situation can be so unique that none of the children in your child's current school would have the vaguest understanding of it, yet there are enough similarly situated children in a choice program that your child could be moved there and wouldn't feel "different."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a low SES school would actually be better and more accepting...more diversity means accepting all types of diversity among students.

Another Poster. I disagree.

I'm a little concerned about OP's statements that the comments were "hideous but innocent."

I am sympathetic, OP, but it sounds like this is not a case of bullying--which puts a different spin on this issue. Bullying is usually not innocent.

It's hard to figure out the situation from what you have said. If it is just that you have a non-traditional family, that is one thing. If your child does not fit a traditional model, that is another issue.

If the comments are truly innocent, I think you are going to have to face the issue head on with your child. You should request the help of the school, but I am not sure changing schools would get a different result.

Now, if it is bullying--then, a school change might be better. Nevertheless, I think you have to work with your child to understand that you have a different living situation from most, but that you are a family and that is fine--just different.

Unfortunately, part of this is that all kids want to be accepted, and they frequently think (erroneously) that being the same as everyone else is acceptance. Certainly, being different may make it more difficult, but it should not. Different does not mean worse. It only means different.

OP HERE- I keep forgetting to say that, hope clear in other responses. I definitely would not call it "bullying" in the real sense. Kids are young, don't understand and ask questions and put forward hypotheses my child finds extremely embarrassing to field and is too young to explain even with the coaching we have given. Some comments sound mean to my child but when they explain the context to me I can understand other child's misunderstandings and misperceptions.
And yes, it is this yearning to be not be different yet knowing they can do nothing about being different and being too young to understand why that is causing the pain. Direct quote " I dont know how to be happy being xxx". I want to go to heaven because I know I'll always be happy there." Or " Okay parent, I don't want to kill myself ( when I'm in tears over child saying they want to do just that) , I just don't want to be here anymore."

There are no words to describe the pain we, as parents, feel for dearest child who can't help their situation.

Is your child still in private therapy?

I admit, I'm having trouble understanding this situation. I appreciate you want your privacy I won't argue with that, but I'm also having a hard time imagining how your situation can be so unique that none of the children in your child's current school would have the vaguest understanding of it, yet there are enough similarly situated children in a choice program that your child could be moved there and wouldn't feel "different."

Think. What students might not be at a school like Jamestown, except for in the Pre-K class(es). Think really hard. I'm sure you'll get to it eventually.

[Anonymous]

I would be a lot more sympathetic to you, OP, if I didn't get the sense that you think that any school filled mostly with brown and black kids with lower test scores wasn't "good." This seems ironic since I get the sense this may have to do with the race of the child.


Sincerely,
Very satisfied parent at one of the much-maligned "bad" APS schools. FYI our school has an incredibly duppprtive, open and tolerant culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would be a lot more sympathetic to you, OP, if I didn't get the sense that you think that any school filled mostly with brown and black kids with lower test scores wasn't "good." This seems ironic since I get the sense this may have to do with the race of the child.


Sincerely,
Very satisfied parent at one of the much-maligned "bad" APS schools. FYI our school has an incredibly duppprtive, open and tolerant culture.

Yes, I was very sympathetic until I, too, reached this conclusion.,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a low SES school would actually be better and more accepting...more diversity means accepting all types of diversity among students.

Another Poster. I disagree.

I'm a little concerned about OP's statements that the comments were "hideous but innocent."

I am sympathetic, OP, but it sounds like this is not a case of bullying--which puts a different spin on this issue. Bullying is usually not innocent.

It's hard to figure out the situation from what you have said. If it is just that you have a non-traditional family, that is one thing. If your child does not fit a traditional model, that is another issue.

If the comments are truly innocent, I think you are going to have to face the issue head on with your child. You should request the help of the school, but I am not sure changing schools would get a different result.

Now, if it is bullying--then, a school change might be better. Nevertheless, I think you have to work with your child to understand that you have a different living situation from most, but that you are a family and that is fine--just different.

Unfortunately, part of this is that all kids want to be accepted, and they frequently think (erroneously) that being the same as everyone else is acceptance. Certainly, being different may make it more difficult, but it should not. Different does not mean worse. It only means different.

OP HERE- I keep forgetting to say that, hope clear in other responses. I definitely would not call it "bullying" in the real sense. Kids are young, don't understand and ask questions and put forward hypotheses my child finds extremely embarrassing to field and is too young to explain even with the coaching we have given. Some comments sound mean to my child but when they explain the context to me I can understand other child's misunderstandings and misperceptions.
And yes, it is this yearning to be not be different yet knowing they can do nothing about being different and being too young to understand why that is causing the pain. Direct quote " I dont know how to be happy being xxx". I want to go to heaven because I know I'll always be happy there." Or " Okay parent, I don't want to kill myself ( when I'm in tears over child saying they want to do just that) , I just don't want to be here anymore."

There are no words to describe the pain we, as parents, feel for dearest child who can't help their situation.

Is your child still in private therapy?

I admit, I'm having trouble understanding this situation. I appreciate you want your privacy I won't argue with that, but I'm also having a hard time imagining how your situation can be so unique that none of the children in your child's current school would have the vaguest understanding of it, yet there are enough similarly situated children in a choice program that your child could be moved there and wouldn't feel "different."

Think. What students might not be at a school like Jamestown, except for in the Pre-K class(es). Think really hard. I'm sure you'll get to it eventually.

I think if it were as simple as OP's child being a racial minority, OP wouldn't have spun a yarn about how it's such a deeply complex issue with many twists and turns.

[Anonymous]

I was a teacher in all kinds of schools. I don't think test scores or SES has much to do with empathy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a low SES school would actually be better and more accepting...more diversity means accepting all types of diversity among students.

Another Poster. I disagree.

I'm a little concerned about OP's statements that the comments were "hideous but innocent."

I am sympathetic, OP, but it sounds like this is not a case of bullying--which puts a different spin on this issue. Bullying is usually not innocent.

It's hard to figure out the situation from what you have said. If it is just that you have a non-traditional family, that is one thing. If your child does not fit a traditional model, that is another issue.

If the comments are truly innocent, I think you are going to have to face the issue head on with your child. You should request the help of the school, but I am not sure changing schools would get a different result.

Now, if it is bullying--then, a school change might be better. Nevertheless, I think you have to work with your child to understand that you have a different living situation from most, but that you are a family and that is fine--just different.

Unfortunately, part of this is that all kids want to be accepted, and they frequently think (erroneously) that being the same as everyone else is acceptance. Certainly, being different may make it more difficult, but it should not. Different does not mean worse. It only means different.

OP HERE- I keep forgetting to say that, hope clear in other responses. I definitely would not call it "bullying" in the real sense. Kids are young, don't understand and ask questions and put forward hypotheses my child finds extremely embarrassing to field and is too young to explain even with the coaching we have given. Some comments sound mean to my child but when they explain the context to me I can understand other child's misunderstandings and misperceptions.
And yes, it is this yearning to be not be different yet knowing they can do nothing about being different and being too young to understand why that is causing the pain. Direct quote " I dont know how to be happy being xxx". I want to go to heaven because I know I'll always be happy there." Or " Okay parent, I don't want to kill myself ( when I'm in tears over child saying they want to do just that) , I just don't want to be here anymore."

There are no words to describe the pain we, as parents, feel for dearest child who can't help their situation.

Is your child still in private therapy?

I admit, I'm having trouble understanding this situation. I appreciate you want your privacy I won't argue with that, but I'm also having a hard time imagining how your situation can be so unique that none of the children in your child's current school would have the vaguest understanding of it, yet there are enough similarly situated children in a choice program that your child could be moved there and wouldn't feel "different."

Think. What students might not be at a school like Jamestown, except for in the Pre-K class(es). Think really hard. I'm sure you'll get to it eventually.

I think if it were as simple as OP's child being a racial minority, OP wouldn't have spun a yarn about how it's such a deeply complex issue with many twists and turns.

It can't be racial minority based on what OP says:

We are in a very unique situation- hence my reluctance to discuss. The closedt I can give is same sex couple (and much much more complicated but I'll leave it there for now) and school has no others.

There are no schools in APS with only one racial minority student.

I also doubt it's an issue of the student being transgender because of what OP says here:

School admits they are remiss in this area but are taking/will be taking steps to address. How? By ensuring more "diversity" at the pre-k level were there is a choice in whom they admit.

I doubt APS is finding enough transgender preschoolers that they can try to create a more diverse student population on this point through preschool admissions.

[Anonymous]

OP, has APS said they won't move your child from their current school at all, or is that they've pulled back on transferring your child to the school you'd prefer and are offering another placement instead?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a low SES school would actually be better and more accepting...more diversity means accepting all types of diversity among students.

Another Poster. I disagree.

I'm a little concerned about OP's statements that the comments were "hideous but innocent."

I am sympathetic, OP, but it sounds like this is not a case of bullying--which puts a different spin on this issue. Bullying is usually not innocent.

It's hard to figure out the situation from what you have said. If it is just that you have a non-traditional family, that is one thing. If your child does not fit a traditional model, that is another issue.

If the comments are truly innocent, I think you are going to have to face the issue head on with your child. You should request the help of the school, but I am not sure changing schools would get a different result.

Now, if it is bullying--then, a school change might be better. Nevertheless, I think you have to work with your child to understand that you have a different living situation from most, but that you are a family and that is fine--just different.

Unfortunately, part of this is that all kids want to be accepted, and they frequently think (erroneously) that being the same as everyone else is acceptance. Certainly, being different may make it more difficult, but it should not. Different does not mean worse. It only means different.

OP HERE- I keep forgetting to say that, hope clear in other responses. I definitely would not call it "bullying" in the real sense. Kids are young, don't understand and ask questions and put forward hypotheses my child finds extremely embarrassing to field and is too young to explain even with the coaching we have given. Some comments sound mean to my child but when they explain the context to me I can understand other child's misunderstandings and misperceptions.
And yes, it is this yearning to be not be different yet knowing they can do nothing about being different and being too young to understand why that is causing the pain. Direct quote " I dont know how to be happy being xxx". I want to go to heaven because I know I'll always be happy there." Or " Okay parent, I don't want to kill myself ( when I'm in tears over child saying they want to do just that) , I just don't want to be here anymore."

There are no words to describe the pain we, as parents, feel for dearest child who can't help their situation.

Is your child still in private therapy?

I admit, I'm having trouble understanding this situation. I appreciate you want your privacy I won't argue with that, but I'm also having a hard time imagining how your situation can be so unique that none of the children in your child's current school would have the vaguest understanding of it, yet there are enough similarly situated children in a choice program that your child could be moved there and wouldn't feel "different."

Think. What students might not be at a school like Jamestown, except for in the Pre-K class(es). Think really hard. I'm sure you'll get to it eventually.

I think if it were as simple as OP's child being a racial minority, OP wouldn't have spun a yarn about how it's such a deeply complex issue with many twists and turns.

It can't be racial minority based on what OP says:

We are in a very unique situation- hence my reluctance to discuss. The closedt I can give is same sex couple (and much much more complicated but I'll leave it there for now) and school has no others.

There are no schools in APS with only one racial minority student.

I also doubt it's an issue of the student being transgender because of what OP says here:

School admits they are remiss in this area but are taking/will be taking steps to address. How? By ensuring more "diversity" at the pre-k level were there is a choice in whom they admit.

I doubt APS is finding enough transgender preschoolers that they can try to create a more diverse student population on this point through preschool admissions.

False. When you take out the Pre-K students, there is at least one school that fits this profile.