Does APS have a duty of care to move a child if situation in current school untenable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am assuming your child does not have an IEP, and the rest of this answer is premised upon that fact-- if child does, answer might be a little different.

I seriously doubt there is any legal duty to move your child to a school of your choosing under this fact pattern. You can consult an attorney if you want- but I would not recommend having the attorney represent you to the school system-- I think that will just make them defensive.
If they were considering a voluntarily transfer- and the school you wanted to switch to is at the point where bringing your child would cause them to have to add another class- they will not do that (and their class ratios are pretty much set in stone- they won't go over them.)
You mention Montessori that worked well. I'm assuming you are either at Drew and want out (in which case you do have the 'right' to go to your neighborhood school.) or you are not at Drew and want it (in which case you probably would be able to unless they are really hitting ratios.)
I actually think APS does cater to individual parents a fair amount- so they probably will transfer your child- just not necessarily to the school of your choosing.
I'm not sure what level you are talking at. Keep in mind who has the power to do what-- talking to the principal won't get you anywhere b/c they can't transfer.
You are probably best off talking to individual school board members- https://www.apsva.us/contact-the-school-board/
If you are being offered a transfer to a school that you don't think has 'academic excellence' you probably will not get very far with them. I would focus on what you think is the best fit for your child and their unique needs vs trashing another school.

Thank you for this though my child does have an IEP for language processing and "ADHD"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is your child in a low SES school and you want out due to the ignorance of the parents and their kids?

Actually very high SES- think Jamestown
Kids just not enlightened to that aspect of life because I presume parents aren't or haven't spoken to them about it. Previous school was in DC where these things are getting to be a pretty normal part of life.

[Anonymous]

You don't get into H-B this way, just FYI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I was away yesterday so I couldn't check in. Thank you for the responses. They help in clarifying the extent of APS's legal duty of care. We are in a very unique situation- hence my reluctance to discuss. The closedt I can give is same sex couple (and much much more complicated but I'll leave it there for now) and school has no others. Child happy with set up at earlier Montessori school but at current public children have made the most hideous yet innocent remarks to child. Cannot blame school per se because they don't control their demographic. Can't blame little children( 5-7 range) because they know no better through no fault of their own. So many remarks that child is just in pain.
Parents chat with child-check
School counselor-check. Child poured out everything from an open ended question.
Private therapist- check
Tears have already started as school drawing near. Doesn't NOT want to go
To answer a PP's question I have gone as high up the chain of command as I can, cap in hand. At first shown compassion and given promise that all will be fine to get child to school where all thought would be best fit- few more with similar parents without compromising academic excellence provided by current school.

Next meeting a lot of back pedaling-space originally available no longer free. given a lot of information about numbers per teacher that are carved in stone. Totally gutted as seemed so positive at earlier meeting.
Now school in 3ish weeks and nothing achieved. Process started in March/April (when requests for transfers due).

So, would it help to engage a lawyer? Has anyone done this and ended up at school that is best fit and not just any school that is not the current school?
Sick to my stomach as I get asked daily now how many more sleeps until school, seeing pain and fear in child's eyes and tears.
How I wish could do private or homeschool

Sure you could retain a lawyer. It's probably the fastest way to find out what your options are and how to pursue them. Don't worry about making the school defensive. They will get over it.

In regards to transferring, did they guarantee you a space in the new school and do you have it in writing? Or did they say something like a transfer could be possible provided there is space available and don't worry because usually there is space available.

In terms of "best fit", it's impossible for a public school system to guarantee you a best fit for your child unless you are referring to a very specialized program that relies on something like an IEP.

OP HERE. No, no guarantees just informal assurance that something could be worked out at that school because there was space in the grade. Told Child's was not a problem. Told it would be easier because not entry grade and also told -good Lord, am I saying too much? - that if I were to be asked how I managed to get in not to give the reason but just to say because there were spaces. This was from the person who makes final decisions so I was pretty hopeful. It seemed like we had a handshake deal- "a nod and a wink". Second meeting totally different. I could sense it immediately- major back pedaling

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe folks on this board could weigh in on whether their school has any/many same-sex couples? Then you might have a better idea if this is more normal at one school than another. I don't know of any at our school (ATS), but I'm sure that's not the case everywhere.

The other thing: if these remarks are "hideous but innocent", maybe the kids need to be educated in order to not say anything? Maybe the teachers in his/her classes can address the topic of "some families have two mommies" in a way that makes it normal to the kids. My daughter has a gay uncle, so we started watching "Modern Family" at a fairly young age. I wanted her to grow up with same-sex relationships being no big deal.

I think she was just giving same sex couples as an example of the situation not necessarily the situation she is facing right now.

It's more or less that but with major twists. I wish I could explain so badly if only for therapeutic reasons. I'm falling apart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe folks on this board could weigh in on whether their school has any/many same-sex couples? Then you might have a better idea if this is more normal at one school than another. I don't know of any at our school (ATS), but I'm sure that's not the case everywhere.

The other thing: if these remarks are "hideous but innocent", maybe the kids need to be educated in order to not say anything? Maybe the teachers in his/her classes can address the topic of "some families have two mommies" in a way that makes it normal to the kids. My daughter has a gay uncle, so we started watching "Modern Family" at a fairly young age. I wanted her to grow up with same-sex relationships being no big deal.

I think she was just giving same sex couples as an example of the situation not necessarily the situation she is facing right now.

I think it is something like child is transgendered. General education students do not have a lot of rights. The district may transfer your child to a school where space is available. Schools with strong academics usually do NOT have openings. If your child is so depressed it is really affecting your child's schoolwork and educational progress for at least 4 to 6 months then your child might qualify for special education under emotionally disturbed. Then you and your child would have many, many more rights.
If your child is miserable why don't you find a private school? If Montessori worked we'll go back to Montessori. Or your child is going to have to have thicker skin so they don't get upset about "ihideous yet innocent" hurtful comments.

[Anonymous]

OP, I think I have gleaned the school you wish to transfer into and I hope it works out and that you're able to join us. I'm so sorry for your child's pain. It stinks because it sounds like you have a legitimate cause for transfer, but because of other abuses/perceived abuses of the system and the increased awareness of the issue, the winks and nods may not be honored. Have they offered you another choice besides the school you hoped for? Maybe that one would be an improvement over your zoned school, if for no other reason than it would be a fresh start.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I was away yesterday so I couldn't check in. Thank you for the responses. They help in clarifying the extent of APS's legal duty of care. We are in a very unique situation- hence my reluctance to discuss. The closedt I can give is same sex couple (and much much more complicated but I'll leave it there for now) and school has no others. Child happy with set up at earlier Montessori school but at current public children have made the most hideous yet innocent remarks to child. Cannot blame school per se because they don't control their demographic. Can't blame little children( 5-7 range) because they know no better through no fault of their own. So many remarks that child is just in pain.
Parents chat with child-check
School counselor-check. Child poured out everything from an open ended question.
Private therapist- check
Tears have already started as school drawing near. Doesn't NOT want to go
To answer a PP's question I have gone as high up the chain of command as I can, cap in hand. At first shown compassion and given promise that all will be fine to get child to school where all thought would be best fit- few more with similar parents without compromising academic excellence provided by current school.

Next meeting a lot of back pedaling-space originally available no longer free. given a lot of information about numbers per teacher that are carved in stone. Totally gutted as seemed so positive at earlier meeting.
Now school in 3ish weeks and nothing achieved. Process started in March/April (when requests for transfers due).

So, would it help to engage a lawyer? Has anyone done this and ended up at school that is best fit and not just any school that is not the current school?
Sick to my stomach as I get asked daily now how many more sleeps until school, seeing pain and fear in child's eyes and tears.
How I wish could do private or homeschool
[/quot

What has the school done to address this issue with the other children? Our APS elementary school is pretty pro-active when there is some sort of unkindness going on about getting the counselor into the classrooms to do sessions generally on respect for others, but also more directly educating on the particular issues (e.g., kids were asking insensitive questions of a child with an older sibling with a very obvious and distinctive disability; school counselor came in and did a session about how people are all different and are all special and valuable with particular reference to people with disabilities, and then taught the kids about being kind and respectful toward and about people who are different from themselves).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I was away yesterday so I couldn't check in. Thank you for the responses. They help in clarifying the extent of APS's legal duty of care. We are in a very unique situation- hence my reluctance to discuss. The closedt I can give is same sex couple (and much much more complicated but I'll leave it there for now) and school has no others. Child happy with set up at earlier Montessori school but at current public children have made the most hideous yet innocent remarks to child. Cannot blame school per se because they don't control their demographic. Can't blame little children( 5-7 range) because they know no better through no fault of their own. So many remarks that child is just in pain.
Parents chat with child-check
School counselor-check. Child poured out everything from an open ended question.
Private therapist- check
Tears have already started as school drawing near. Doesn't NOT want to go
To answer a PP's question I have gone as high up the chain of command as I can, cap in hand. At first shown compassion and given promise that all will be fine to get child to school where all thought would be best fit- few more with similar parents without compromising academic excellence provided by current school.

Next meeting a lot of back pedaling-space originally available no longer free. given a lot of information about numbers per teacher that are carved in stone. Totally gutted as seemed so positive at earlier meeting.
Now school in 3ish weeks and nothing achieved. Process started in March/April (when requests for transfers due).

So, would it help to engage a lawyer? Has anyone done this and ended up at school that is best fit and not just any school that is not the current school?
Sick to my stomach as I get asked daily now how many more sleeps until school, seeing pain and fear in child's eyes and tears.
How I wish could do private or homeschool

What has the school done to address this issue with the other children? Our APS elementary school is pretty pro-active when there is some sort of unkindness going on about getting the counselor into the classrooms to do sessions generally on respect for others, but also more directly educating on the particular issues (e.g., kids were asking insensitive questions of a child with an older sibling with a very obvious and distinctive disability; school counselor came in and did a session about how people are all different and are all special and valuable with particular reference to people with disabilities, and then taught the kids about being kind and respectful toward and about people who are different from themselves).

[Anonymous]

So sorry, OP. I'm getting the vibe that your DC is trans. IDK if there's anyway for the school system to vet a school is LGBTQ kids or kids with same sex parents. Private school might be better. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

I think a low SES school would actually be better and more accepting...more diversity means accepting all types of diversity among students.

[Anonymous]

I'm
Afraid for your child that another school will not solve the issue. How do you have any idea that another school will have more accepting children? Did the school last year do anything to educate the children about whatever the issue is? Talk about empathy and kindness? Why do you think children at another school will be better?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a low SES school would actually be better and more accepting...more diversity means accepting all types of diversity among students.

Another Poster. I disagree.

I'm a little concerned about OP's statements that the comments were "hideous but innocent."

I am sympathetic, OP, but it sounds like this is not a case of bullying--which puts a different spin on this issue. Bullying is usually not innocent.

It's hard to figure out the situation from what you have said. If it is just that you have a non-traditional family, that is one thing. If your child does not fit a traditional model, that is another issue.

If the comments are truly innocent, I think you are going to have to face the issue head on with your child. You should request the help of the school, but I am not sure changing schools would get a different result.

Now, if it is bullying--then, a school change might be better. Nevertheless, I think you have to work with your child to understand that you have a different living situation from most, but that you are a family and that is fine--just different.

Unfortunately, part of this is that all kids want to be accepted, and they frequently think (erroneously) that being the same as everyone else is acceptance. Certainly, being different may make it more difficult, but it should not. Different does not mean worse. It only means different.

[Anonymous]

OP, you mentioned your child was seeing a private therapist, what is the therapist's recommendation for how to proceed here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am assuming your child does not have an IEP, and the rest of this answer is premised upon that fact-- if child does, answer might be a little different.

I seriously doubt there is any legal duty to move your child to a school of your choosing under this fact pattern. You can consult an attorney if you want- but I would not recommend having the attorney represent you to the school system-- I think that will just make them defensive.
If they were considering a voluntarily transfer- and the school you wanted to switch to is at the point where bringing your child would cause them to have to add another class- they will not do that (and their class ratios are pretty much set in stone- they won't go over them.)
You mention Montessori that worked well. I'm assuming you are either at Drew and want out (in which case you do have the 'right' to go to your neighborhood school.) or you are not at Drew and want it (in which case you probably would be able to unless they are really hitting ratios.)
I actually think APS does cater to individual parents a fair amount- so they probably will transfer your child- just not necessarily to the school of your choosing.
I'm not sure what level you are talking at. Keep in mind who has the power to do what-- talking to the principal won't get you anywhere b/c they can't transfer.
You are probably best off talking to individual school board members- https://www.apsva.us/contact-the-school-board/
If you are being offered a transfer to a school that you don't think has 'academic excellence' you probably will not get very far with them. I would focus on what you think is the best fit for your child and their unique needs vs trashing another school.

Thank you for this though my child does have an IEP for language processing and "ADHD"

Why is ADHD in quotes here?