TJ - Neurobio cheating

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a high school, people. A high school.

A high school where nearly all classes are taught at the college level, and with a college level workload. And by junior-senior year, many kids are doing graduate level research. Many kids who have the academic smarts to manage this do not have the pre-frontal cortex development or emotional maturity.

It is also *just* a high school where the expectations are incredibly high. You hear that a kid is from TJ, and you expect them to do better that *just* GMU, JMU, VA tech, WM-- or even UVA. The picture of a "successful" kid from any other HS and a "successful" kid from TJ is very different. TJ Kids are expected to do amazing things-- by their peers, their families, and community as a whole. "Just" going to a good college and getting good grades isn't enough. It's a lot of pressure.

[Anonymous]

It's TJ. Of course they cheat. That's nothing new.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's TJ. Of course they cheat. That's nothing new.

Colleges don't seem to care, so it won't change. I guess TJ wants to say it's grads have high GPAs and the colleges want to say the students they admit have high GPAs, so they are willing to look past the cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a high school, people. A high school.

A high school where nearly all classes are taught at the college level, and with a college level workload. And by junior-senior year, many kids are doing graduate level research. Many kids who have the academic smarts to manage this do not have the pre-frontal cortex development or emotional maturity.

It is also *just* a high school where the expectations are incredibly high. You hear that a kid is from TJ, and you expect them to do better that *just* GMU, JMU, VA tech, WM-- or even UVA. The picture of a "successful" kid from any other HS and a "successful" kid from TJ is very different. TJ Kids are expected to do amazing things-- by their peers, their families, and community as a whole. "Just" going to a good college and getting good grades isn't enough. It's a lot of pressure.

It's generally not even close to graduate level research, simply because the vast majority don't have enough academic background to handle that yet.There's simply not enough time to both fulfill all high school graduation requirements, even if it's mostly done with AP level classes, and reach a level where you're doing anything like graduate research. Having lots of equipment doesn't mean you have enough background to use it profitably.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a high school, people. A high school.

A high school where nearly all classes are taught at the college level, and with a college level workload. And by junior-senior year, many kids are doing graduate level research. Many kids who have the academic smarts to manage this do not have the pre-frontal cortex development or emotional maturity.

It is also *just* a high school where the expectations are incredibly high. You hear that a kid is from TJ, and you expect them to do better that *just* GMU, JMU, VA tech, WM-- or even UVA. The picture of a "successful" kid from any other HS and a "successful" kid from TJ is very different. TJ Kids are expected to do amazing things-- by their peers, their families, and community as a whole. "Just" going to a good college and getting good grades isn't enough. It's a lot of pressure.

It's generally not even close to graduate level research, simply because the vast majority don't have enough academic background to handle that yet.There's simply not enough time to both fulfill all high school graduation requirements, even if it's mostly done with AP level classes, and reach a level where you're doing anything like graduate research. Having lots of equipment doesn't mean you have enough background to use it profitably.

I completely agree. PP's post is a good example of how clueless TJ parents are. TJ, over the years with help of news magazine, has done an excellent job "selling" their HS. They completely lost perspective that it is, nevertheless, still only a HS.

[Anonymous]

PP, you should tour TJ some time or read about the research kids are doing. One group just presented at a professional level engineering conference - the first high schoolers ever to do that. Others have sent a satellite into space - again the first high schoolers ever to do that. Another was named a Forbes 30 Under 30 - and presented at a Childrens National Medical Center conference on Pediatric Surgical Innovations (most of the 30 under 30 are postdoc or government officials). These are just a few examples.

In freshman year, they take an integrated course of Research Statistics, Biology, English, and Technology Design that teaches them all the common statistical validation methods, how to use professional science research databases (again, TJ is the only high school I believe that has subscriptions to these), how to conduct a group research project, how to write a fully supported and sourced research paper using professional bibliographic references, and how to convert that research and paper into a professional level presentation. This is 9th grade. They get deeper in their interests from there, often taking many post-AP classes in topics such as Linear Algebra, Quantum Physics, Artificial Intelligence, etc. And they do know how to use the equipment - which is always interesting to other incoming freshman at tech schools ...

And yes - that is tough to do while also completing all the Virginia Governors' school requirements for graduation (which are more rigorous than the regular HS requirements) - for example they have to take an extra humanities course on top of all the TJ requirements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, you should tour TJ some time or read about the research kids are doing. One group just presented at a professional level engineering conference - the first high schoolers ever to do that. Others have sent a satellite into space - again the first high schoolers ever to do that. Another was named a Forbes 30 Under 30 - and presented at a Childrens National Medical Center conference on Pediatric Surgical Innovations (most of the 30 under 30 are postdoc or government officials). These are just a few examples.

In freshman year, they take an integrated course of Research Statistics, Biology, English, and Technology Design that teaches them all the common statistical validation methods, how to use professional science research databases (again, TJ is the only high school I believe that has subscriptions to these), how to conduct a group research project, how to write a fully supported and sourced research paper using professional bibliographic references, and how to convert that research and paper into a professional level presentation. This is 9th grade. They get deeper in their interests from there, often taking many post-AP classes in topics such as Linear Algebra, Quantum Physics, Artificial Intelligence, etc. And they do know how to use the equipment - which is always interesting to other incoming freshman at tech schools ...

And yes - that is tough to do while also completing all the Virginia Governors' school requirements for graduation (which are more rigorous than the regular HS requirements) - for example they have to take an extra humanities course on top of all the TJ requirements.

That's exactly it--a few examples. I would say a good quarter of each class truly loves science and math, and a few dozen kids are exceptionally advanced at one thing or another: some of these are exceedingly smart. Others have had extensive and intensive preparation in math and science long before they get to TJ. You also have those whose parents are scientists, those whose parents hire scientists to coach them at one thing or another, and so on. The others are by and large very good students who did everything they needed to do to get to TJ. Many of them don't particularly like math and science (I know this from having worked with quite a few), although their parents will swear it is their "passion." Some of the kids themselves will swear they love math and science, but their behavior spells the opposite. And then they graduate and, happily for them, get out of STEM as fast as they can.

[Anonymous]

PP, what is your basis for making these generalizations? While a parent doesn't have knowledge to make these types of statements, I suspect you're not even a parent there.

[Anonymous]

DC is TJ, is very good at Math and Science, and also interested in very many other things - like sports, languages, Model UN. That doesn't mean DC is not capable of graduate level research - DC has received the same training as all the other TJ students, participates in the same classes and labs. And DC is not planning on getting out of STEM, but will probably dual major in a foreign language. While only 1/4 of the class may win a national award in Science or such, the MAJORITY of the class engages in STEM topics and applies to Engineering/Math/Science program for college. A handful (less than 1/4) apply to other types of programs, but the rigorous nature of the research education they have received works well in all academic disciplines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC is TJ, is very good at Math and Science, and also interested in very many other things - like sports, languages, Model UN. That doesn't mean DC is not capable of graduate level research - DC has received the same training as all the other TJ students, participates in the same classes and labs. And DC is not planning on getting out of STEM, but will probably dual major in a foreign language. While only 1/4 of the class may win a national award in Science or such, the MAJORITY of the class engages in STEM topics and applies to Engineering/Math/Science program for college. A handful (less than 1/4) apply to other types of programs, but the rigorous nature of the research education they have received works well in all academic disciplines.

1/4 win a national science award????? Come on, man! Are you kidding?

[Anonymous]

Not necessarily Intel or Siemens awards - only 5-10 of those kids recognized annually, but yes, TJ math and science and robotics and physics and Rubik's cube and all sorts of other techy teams place nationally nearly every year. And the teams can have multiple members. So my best guess is that 1/4 of the TJ students can fill in some manner of national science/math recognition on their common app when applying to college. And that does not include that 1/4 of each class (over 100 kids) is NMSF, most of whom have 760 score in math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not necessarily Intel or Siemens awards - only 5-10 of those kids recognized annually, but yes, TJ math and science and robotics and physics and Rubik's cube and all sorts of other techy teams place nationally nearly every year. And the teams can have multiple members. So my best guess is that 1/4 of the TJ students can fill in some manner of national science/math recognition on their common app when applying to college. And that does not include that 1/4 of each class (over 100 kids) is NMSF, most of whom have 760 score in math.

Fake news. That's just silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a high school, people. A high school.

A high school where nearly all classes are taught at the college level, and with a college level workload. And by junior-senior year, many kids are doing graduate level research. Many kids who have the academic smarts to manage this do not have the pre-frontal cortex development or emotional maturity.

It is also *just* a high school where the expectations are incredibly high. You hear that a kid is from TJ, and you expect them to do better that *just* GMU, JMU, VA tech, WM-- or even UVA. The picture of a "successful" kid from any other HS and a "successful" kid from TJ is very different. TJ Kids are expected to do amazing things-- by their peers, their families, and community as a whole. "Just" going to a good college and getting good grades isn't enough. It's a lot of pressure.

It's generally not even close to graduate level research, simply because the vast majority don't have enough academic background to handle that yet.There's simply not enough time to both fulfill all high school graduation requirements, even if it's mostly done with AP level classes, and reach a level where you're doing anything like graduate research. Having lots of equipment doesn't mean you have enough background to use it profitably.

I completely agree. PP's post is a good example of how clueless TJ parents are. TJ, over the years with help of news magazine, has done an excellent job "selling" their HS. They completely lost perspective that it is, nevertheless, still only a HS.

Time to shut TJ. provides no benefit to the vast majority of Fairfax county residents. school board is scared of political correctness. but it is coming.

[Anonymous]

It won't happen for a number of reasons, including because FCPS uses some of the TJ Governor's School money from the state for other schools under the allocation system FCPS imposes. In other words, if you close TJ as a Governor's School, the school budget deficit gets worse.

But what TJ is doing now that construction is over is opening up for more collaboration on education and projects with the community and other local schools, including through summer seminars and collaborative projects.

In addition, the school and its charitable foundation are increasing efforts to bring STEM education to elementary schools students so more students will be prepared for the TJ admissions requirements and testing well in advance. Identifying smart kids who may be in middle schools without the same level of math and science resources has turned out to be too late. The outreach has to start in elementary school and that is happening now through various programs including mentorship and tutoring by TJ students.

Lots of people like to critique TJ and its students harshly any chance they get, but they are largely remarkable academically and also responsible and kind citizens, many of whom may well do things that will change the world for the better. The more students that can share in the opportunities available at TJ, the better. And like it or not, that's what the school is going to work on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is TJ, is very good at Math and Science, and also interested in very many other things - like sports, languages, Model UN. That doesn't mean DC is not capable of graduate level research - DC has received the same training as all the other TJ students, participates in the same classes and labs. And DC is not planning on getting out of STEM, but will probably dual major in a foreign language. While only 1/4 of the class may win a national award in Science or such, the MAJORITY of the class engages in STEM topics and applies to Engineering/Math/Science program for college. A handful (less than 1/4) apply to other types of programs, but the rigorous nature of the research education they have received works well in all academic disciplines.

1/4 win a national science award????? Come on, man! Are you kidding?

Except the fact they cheat, TJ kids are really impressive.