Kids want a Christmas tree; we are not Christian

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The Christmas tree is absolutely NOT a Christian tradition. It's a pagan tradition in celebration of the Winter Solstice. It was coopted by the Christian church when they were trying to assert Christinity over pagan holidays. The Christians MOVED the celebration of Christ's birth to December to near the Winter Solstice and coopted a number of pagan traditions including an evergreen tree (a symbol of eternal life and health because it doesn't wither in the winter) and the giving of gifts because these were some of the popular symbols and customs of the pagan traditions.

And saying that a holiday tree or solstice tree is American does not imply at all that someone who does not have one is not American or un-American. People who don't like baseball, Apple Pie or fireworks are still American despite those being some of the biggest American traditions. Inclusiveness is not the same as exclusivity.

OP can choose to have a soltice tree or not. But the tree is not a Christian symbol or tradition. The navitity, the crucifix, attending Christmas services, carolling, the Christmas star are all symbols of Christianity. The tree, Santa Claus, giving of gifts (another pagan tradition coopted in the 19th and 20th centuries and tied to the giving of gifts by the Magi), holly, poinsettas, mistletoe, ornaments, reindeer, elves, snowmen are all definitely not Christian in origin but have become American seasonal traditions.

It IS a Christian tradition. Because the Christians coopted it. Yes, it was started by the pagans but the Christians took it and made it theirs. I am a nonchristian (atheist) who celebrates it in a cultural way, but please stop with saying the tree is not Christian. It used to not be Christian, but now it is.

Again, inclusion does not equate with exclusivity. Just because the Christians coopted it as a tradition does not mean that it is no longer a pagan tradition. Just coopting it does not make it exclusively a Christian tradition. It is a general tradition adopted by Christians. Having a holiday tree does not mean one is practicing or supporting Christmas or Christianity which was the original contention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can call it a holiday tree, it's american

Thanks for calling Jews, and people of other faiths (or no faith) who don't participate in the historically Christian holiday of Christmas. Un-American. Are you voting for trump?

NP here but I would not call you Un-American. I would call you something else, like whatever the word is for "looking for a fight." Or something more crude maybe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The Christmas tree is absolutely NOT a Christian tradition. It's a pagan tradition in celebration of the Winter Solstice. It was coopted by the Christian church when they were trying to assert Christinity over pagan holidays. The Christians MOVED the celebration of Christ's birth to December to near the Winter Solstice and coopted a number of pagan traditions including an evergreen tree (a symbol of eternal life and health because it doesn't wither in the winter) and the giving of gifts because these were some of the popular symbols and customs of the pagan traditions.

And saying that a holiday tree or solstice tree is American does not imply at all that someone who does not have one is not American or un-American. People who don't like baseball, Apple Pie or fireworks are still American despite those being some of the biggest American traditions. Inclusiveness is not the same as exclusivity.

OP can choose to have a soltice tree or not. But the tree is not a Christian symbol or tradition. The navitity, the crucifix, attending Christmas services, carolling, the Christmas star are all symbols of Christianity. The tree, Santa Claus, giving of gifts (another pagan tradition coopted in the 19th and 20th centuries and tied to the giving of gifts by the Magi), holly, poinsettas, mistletoe, ornaments, reindeer, elves, snowmen are all definitely not Christian in origin but have become American seasonal traditions.

It IS a Christian tradition. Because the Christians coopted it. Yes, it was started by the pagans but the Christians took it and made it theirs. I am a nonchristian (atheist) who celebrates it in a cultural way, but please stop with saying the tree is not Christian. It used to not be Christian, but now it is.

Again, inclusion does not equate with exclusivity. Just because the Christians coopted it as a tradition does not mean that it is no longer a pagan tradition. Just coopting it does not make it exclusively a Christian tradition. It is a general tradition adopted by Christians. Having a holiday tree does not mean one is practicing or supporting Christmas or Christianity which was the original contention.

Except it isn't. Otherwise how do you explain away the millions of non Christians who have Christmas trees? Your attempt at logic defies logic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are Christians, but my kids have been asking about some of the other holidays like Hanukkah and Kwaanza. In an effort to nurture their curiosity and respect for all religions, we have put a Menorah up in our home and some Kwanzaa decorations. Perhaps this is the approach you could take?

I got in a bit of trouble on here for doing this. Some of the Jewish posters didn't like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are atheists and have a Christmas tree. Christmas is mostly a cultural holiday. I know the religious people have some special attachment to it, but it's okay to not have any attachment but still engage in the merry making that goes along with it.

So we have a 9-ft tall tree, an ungodly amount of lights, ribbons, ornaments, and etc.

I take pride on having the best tree in the entire street.

Actually, it is not. You're an atheist celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ.

Who has a better idea of what I am celebrating, me or you? I am celebrating the holiday called Christmas. It's an opportunity to spend time with the family, with activities, trips, gifts, etc. That's what I am celebrating. You may think I am missing the point by celebrating Christmas without any belief that Jesus was real, but I don't need Jesus to be real to enjoy Christmas. Just watch me.

You go!!! I am Christian but LOVE your post. Wtf with all of the correctors and quibblers about what *you* are doing. "Merry Christmas" to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are Christians, but my kids have been asking about some of the other holidays like Hanukkah and Kwaanza. In an effort to nurture their curiosity and respect for all religions, we have put a Menorah up in our home and some Kwanzaa decorations. Perhaps this is the approach you could take?

I got in a bit of trouble on here for doing this. Some of the Jewish posters didn't like it.

Because that's more like putting a nativity or advent wreath in your home.

[Anonymous]

My Buddhist family always had a Christmas tree growing up.

[Anonymous]

Op here, again. I just realized there is a similar thread about Hanukkah, sorry if a lot of the same thoughts are being covered on this thread. But here is what makes it different - many of the Hindu festivals we celebrate (Ganesh Chathurthi, Krishna Jayanthi, Navrathri, Dusshera, Diwali) are not this time of year (they are late July to early Nov), unlike Xmas/Hanukkah/Kwanza, etc. And basically NONE of these holidays are about gifts, whatsoever. we get new clothes for Diwali, but otherwise the holidays are a time of faith, family, food...lots of food. and fireworks during Diwali. its fun. we're happy to celebrate them all.

Back to the Christmas tree. Whether or not it was coopted by the Christian faith some years ago is not relevant to me - now I view it as a symbol of Christianity. We have plenty of Christian friends, we go to their houses for Christmas parties, we make xmas parties with neighbors, we exchange gifts with friends, we usually find carolers to listen to, and sometimes we go to midnight mass even because we think its beautiful. I can appreciate the beauty of this faith without having a tree, wreath, or cross in my house. Same with Judaism; every year we are invited to our good friends' large gatherings for Passover, High holidays etc. we even know some of the songs now, and my older daughter knows how to make a latke. We think its beautiful but we're not going to have a Menorah in our house.

I hope this makes sense. We are not a very organized religion, and we tend to get overlooked by other 'stronger' faiths (i.e. monotheistic) which is why I DON'T want to do a xmas tree. I know my daughter will understand years from now, but right now its difficult.

[Anonymous]

There is a difference from growing up Christian and now being atheist from a Jew, atheist who is Jewish, etc. I would say no. It is what Christians celebrate and you have your own special holidays. My six year old wanted to decorate our house like the neighbors. I said no. Simple

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can call it a holiday tree, it's american

Thanks for calling Jews, and people of other faiths (or no faith) who don't participate in the historically Christian holiday of Christmas. Un-American. Are you voting for trump?

She didn't say that and you are being a jerk.

It is a secular American tradition, right up there with tailgate parties and halloween trick or treating.

Quit being so sensitive and try enjoying yourself a little.

New poster here. It is definitely not a secular American tradition. We're Jewish (not very observant, but Jewish) and don't have a Christmas tree because we don't celebrate Christmas because we're not Christian. That's what we tell our kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can call it a holiday tree, it's american

Thanks for calling Jews, and people of other faiths (or no faith) who don't participate in the historically Christian holiday of Christmas. Un-American. Are you voting for trump?

She didn't say that and you are being a jerk.

It is a secular American tradition, right up there with tailgate parties and halloween trick or treating.

Quit being so sensitive and try enjoying yourself a little.

It is a Christian tradition. I am an American and it is not my tradition.

The Christmas tree is absolutely NOT a Christian tradition. It's a pagan tradition in celebration of the Winter Solstice. It was coopted by the Christian church when they were trying to assert Christinity over pagan holidays. The Christians MOVED the celebration of Christ's birth to December to near the Winter Solstice and coopted a number of pagan traditions including an evergreen tree (a symbol of eternal life and health because it doesn't wither in the winter) and the giving of gifts because these were some of the popular symbols and customs of the pagan traditions.

And saying that a holiday tree or solstice tree is American does not imply at all that someone who does not have one is not American or un-American. People who don't like baseball, Apple Pie or fireworks are still American despite those being some of the biggest American traditions. Inclusiveness is not the same as exclusivity.

OP can choose to have a soltice tree or not. But the tree is not a Christian symbol or tradition. The navitity, the crucifix, attending Christmas services, carolling, the Christmas star are all symbols of Christianity. The tree, Santa Claus, giving of gifts (another pagan tradition coopted in the 19th and 20th centuries and tied to the giving of gifts by the Magi), holly, poinsettas, mistletoe, ornaments, reindeer, elves, snowmen are all definitely not Christian in origin but have become American seasonal traditions.

Caroling is another stolen aspect, not Christian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are Christians, but my kids have been asking about some of the other holidays like Hanukkah and Kwaanza. In an effort to nurture their curiosity and respect for all religions, we have put a Menorah up in our home and some Kwanzaa decorations. Perhaps this is the approach you could take?

OP here. That is very nice! We actually do already celebrate Passover, Rosh Hashanah, and Hanukkah with our best friends here who are Jewish, but I like the idea of Kwanzaa decorations....thanks.

I don't know. I like the idea of participating in genuine celebrations with people who have other traditions, but decorating your own house with symbols from holidays that are not meaningful to you seems really strange.

Symbols of Christmas like lights and trees were borrowed from the pagans who were celebrating the solstice and the slowly returning sun. They brightened up the darkest days of winter. No reason that you can't borrow these symbols too, to brighen up your winter and make your kids a little happier.

[Anonymous]

Just say no. What's the big problem here?

I'm Jewish. As a kid, I wanted to decorate our house with Christmas lights. I was told no. I was bummed out but lived. Just tell your kids no. I don't see the big deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can call it a holiday tree, it's american

Thanks for calling Jews, and people of other faiths (or no faith) who don't participate in the historically Christian holiday of Christmas. Un-American. Are you voting for trump?

She didn't say that and you are being a jerk.

It is a secular American tradition, right up there with tailgate parties and halloween trick or treating.

Quit being so sensitive and try enjoying yourself a little.

It is a Christian tradition. I am an American and it is not my tradition.

The Christmas tree is absolutely NOT a Christian tradition. It's a pagan tradition in celebration of the Winter Solstice. It was coopted by the Christian church when they were trying to assert Christinity over pagan holidays. The Christians MOVED the celebration of Christ's birth to December to near the Winter Solstice and coopted a number of pagan traditions including an evergreen tree (a symbol of eternal life and health because it doesn't wither in the winter) and the giving of gifts because these were some of the popular symbols and customs of the pagan traditions.

And saying that a holiday tree or solstice tree is American does not imply at all that someone who does not have one is not American or un-American. People who don't like baseball, Apple Pie or fireworks are still American despite those being some of the biggest American traditions. Inclusiveness is not the same as exclusivity.

OP can choose to have a soltice tree or not. But the tree is not a Christian symbol or tradition. The navitity, the crucifix, attending Christmas services, carolling, the Christmas star are all symbols of Christianity. The tree, Santa Claus, giving of gifts (another pagan tradition coopted in the 19th and 20th centuries and tied to the giving of gifts by the Magi), holly, poinsettas, mistletoe, ornaments, reindeer, elves, snowmen are all definitely not Christian in origin but have become American seasonal traditions.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can call it a holiday tree, it's american

Thanks for calling Jews, and people of other faiths (or no faith) who don't participate in the historically Christian holiday of Christmas. Un-American. Are you voting for trump?

She didn't say that and you are being a jerk.

It is a secular American tradition, right up there with tailgate parties and halloween trick or treating.

Quit being so sensitive and try enjoying yourself a little.

New poster here. It is definitely not a secular American tradition. We're Jewish (not very observant, but Jewish) and don't have a Christmas tree because we don't celebrate Christmas because we're not Christian. That's what we tell our kids.

Sam here.