Do men like women who are helpless?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are applying a woman's dating standards to men. Men do not care if you went to the righ university, have the right job, non athletic, etc. As for helpless...some men like that, most don't.

Every man I ever had a relationship with was just as interested in my mind as in my looks.

You must not be much of a looker.

[Anonymous]

My thought is that many men are raised to think that being the protector & provider in a relationship is their assigned role. It's hard to do either for a woman who's too independent, and men (well, people, really) like to feel useful.

My beef is with my very accomplished female friends who play helpless in their relationships. These ladies have terminal degrees, have traveled solo all over the world, then post on FB that they'd "starve to death!" if DH hadn't gone to the grocery.

Then again, I'm a single mom/physician, so maybe I'm just irked that I have to do my own shopping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My thought is that many men are raised to think that being the protector & provider in a relationship is their assigned role. It's hard to do either for a woman who's too independent, and men (well, people, really) like to feel useful.

My beef is with my very accomplished female friends who play helpless in their relationships. These ladies have terminal degrees, have traveled solo all over the world, then post on FB that they'd "starve to death!" if DH hadn't gone to the grocery.

Then again, I'm a single mom/physician, so maybe I'm just irked that I have to do my own shopping.

Apart from posting on facebook, which I think is juvenile, perhaps that is their arrangement. I refuse to do anything involving cars, construction or electronic equipment in my house. I am sure I could figure it out if I had to, but this is DH's department. It's his job. I am more than happy to stroke his ego when he does it.

[Anonymous]

When I was in law school, many of the men in my class were very open about the fact that they were not the least bit interested in dating women who were fellow law students. I was already engaged at the time so it didn't affect me, but I thought it was weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I was in law school, many of the men in my class were very open about the fact that they were not the least bit interested in dating women who were fellow law students. I was already engaged at the time so it didn't affect me, but I thought it was weird.

Lawyer DH here: that's cause most (not all) lawyers are boring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My marriage ended because I'd been less than forthright in letting my DH know who I was before we married. I own that.

He grew angry and resentful as he came to understand my background. I fault him for not being proud of me instead of becoming petulant, but I also concede that I was being understated about my family background, education, relative wealth, life experience, cultural awareness,...general sophistication. He wanted a village wife and that's not me.

The sad thing is that I never worried about our mis-matched backgrounds. The only thing that mattered was what I thought was our shared values and the life we could build together.

I hear what you're saying, OP, although I would state it differently.

He dumped you, AFTER he had married you, because you were too accomplished and came from too privileged an upbringing? If he cared so much about your upbringing, why didn't he insist on meeting the parents who brought you up? How were you able to hide coming from a more sophisticated background? Why were you hiding it?

Just seeing this now. I didn't realize I was lobbing a grenade into OP's post.

To clarify, the marriage dissolved after his anger took over the entirety of our family life. I begged him to work on it, and dedicated myself to supporting our relationship. There was nothing left for me to do.

Of course he had met my parents before we got married. You have to understand that, growing up, the worst thing to be called in my house was "a snob." My folks were very down-to-Earth people, who did their utmost to welcome him to the family. Like a lot of women, I played down my accomplishments or couched them within contexts that didn't place the limelight on me. I was a student when we met. He knew I was writing but I didn't flash my publications. I write books and I find that I'm still a bit apologetic about it. It's just how I think through ideas. Other people run marathons, which I think is amazing. It's just where I go when I get involved in a topic; how I process. What did that have to do with our relationship anyway? That's what I thought at the time. My parents were well-known. Looking back though, when I spoke about them, I probably sounded like any other daughter who found value in their parents. He didn't know that my father is featured in hundreds of books. Again, I was focused on us. Besides, in my experience up until then, who didn't know my dad? DH was from another country. While surprised that I knew about that part of the world, I think it irked him that I was an expert in the field. I thought it was something we would share, especially as we had children. Instead of accompanying me abroad, he stayed at home and entertained people in a house I'd gotten (long before we married) from my family. When I told him it was my house (when we were dating) he, I guess, assumed it was my parents'? When we had a talk about money, I was honest with him. I don't know why that became a source of resentment when I'd been upfront about that piece? Maybe he thought it came too easily? I earned that money, but he didn't see what I do as real work. At one point I was on deadline for a book (had until the end of the year) and he thought I was selfish and myopic because I wasn't getting a real job to support the family. I feel exhausted just typing that out. His labor was real, mine was "the easy life." That is a term he used even after we were divorced. Our children are still quite young, but he has berated me for preparing them for the easy life. Honestly, I don't even know what he means by this. I'm well-read, community-oriented, and really devoted to family. I am not a snob. I don't judge or categorize pastimes into high and low culture. (I'm thinking of the opera poster here.) Sure, we scored free tickets to a Bill T. Jones event and I was really excited about that. Ever seen his work? He's amazing! To me, a partner is someone you learn and grow with over all the beautiful challenges and joys that marriage and parenthood offer. I loved sitting on the sofa with DH, watching impassioned popular movies with a social justice slant. I loved being with that man, sharing a life with him. He thinks I'm stupid and lazy. What the hell am I supposed to do with that?

[Anonymous]

I think most women don't realize how important ego stroking is for men. When the man makes more money, is smarter, she's helpless (damsel in distress) or she is smokin hot, he naturally gets a big ego boost.

With a woman who is more of an equal, it takes more work on the woman's part to stroke their ego (especially as the relationship goes on). Many women complain about this--why do I always have to tell him how great he is? But it's just how the male psyche is wired.

Doesn't take much effort to just remind a guy what you like about him (that shirts looks great on you) or be grateful for what he does (thank you for doing the dishes). And if you are with a guy that takes effort to say nice things and stroke his ego--why are you with him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think most women don't realize how important ego stroking is for men. When the man makes more money, is smarter, she's helpless (damsel in distress) or she is smokin hot, he naturally gets a big ego boost.

With a woman who is more of an equal, it takes more work on the woman's part to stroke their ego (especially as the relationship goes on). Many women complain about this--why do I always have to tell him how great he is? But it's just how the male psyche is wired.

Doesn't take much effort to just remind a guy what you like about him (that shirts looks great on you) or be grateful for what he does (thank you for doing the dishes). And if you are with a guy that takes effort to say nice things and stroke his ego--why are you with him?

I agree. I need to stroke my husband's ego more and I appreciate the reminder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think most women don't realize how important ego stroking is for men. When the man makes more money, is smarter, she's helpless (damsel in distress) or she is smokin hot, he naturally gets a big ego boost.

With a woman who is more of an equal, it takes more work on the woman's part to stroke their ego (especially as the relationship goes on). Many women complain about this--why do I always have to tell him how great he is? But it's just how the male psyche is wired.

Doesn't take much effort to just remind a guy what you like about him (that shirts looks great on you) or be grateful for what he does (thank you for doing the dishes). And if you are with a guy that takes effort to say nice things and stroke his ego--why are you with him?

Thanks for this eloquent comment. I think I may print it and put it on the fridge.

Doing the extraordinary is its own reward. It's the mundane everyday stuff that feeds melancholy. Everyone deserves to be praised for maintaining a routine.

[Anonymous]

I think that's rare. everyone I know is married to their educational/socioeconomic equal. While some are now SAHMs most had professional jobs when they met/married.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I switched to an 'inferior' job after getting married. Our lives are 100% better because of it. Family life is extremely difficult with two high-level professionals. It works so much better if one person is out of the game, so to speak.

But see, some women would resent losing their career just to keep their man happy. Me, for instance. Sometimes it's better to find a higher quality guy who can handle being in a relationship with another high level professional.

I hope you are aware of how obnoxious this sounds. Higher quality guy, huh?

So high- level means high quality? Wow you sound onnoxious. And I was a "high-level" attorney who stepped it down after having kids. I didn't do it for my husband, I did it for my family. I still have a successful job, just perform at a different level than before. It wasn't about money, we have plefty of that, it was about a partnership where one of us could be more available for the kids. I sacrificed for them, not for my husband. You sound selfish and shallow, OP. And don't fool yourself into thinking that your kids are better off with high-quality, ummm, high-powered Mommyyand Daddy who never see their kids and are just fine with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I was in law school, many of the men in my class were very open about the fact that they were not the least bit interested in dating women who were fellow law students. I was already engaged at the time so it didn't affect me, but I thought it was weird.

Law students are tedious. When I was in law school, I didn't want to hang out with law student guys - let alone date the law student women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My marriage ended because I'd been less than forthright in letting my DH know who I was before we married. I own that.

He grew angry and resentful as he came to understand my background. I fault him for not being proud of me instead of becoming petulant, but I also concede that I was being understated about my family background, education, relative wealth, life experience, cultural awareness,...general sophistication. He wanted a village wife and that's not me.

The sad thing is that I never worried about our mis-matched backgrounds. The only thing that mattered was what I thought was our shared values and the life we could build together.

I hear what you're saying, OP, although I would state it differently.

He dumped you, AFTER he had married you, because you were too accomplished and came from too privileged an upbringing? If he cared so much about your upbringing, why didn't he insist on meeting the parents who brought you up? How were you able to hide coming from a more sophisticated background? Why were you hiding it?

Just seeing this now. I didn't realize I was lobbing a grenade into OP's post.

To clarify, the marriage dissolved after his anger took over the entirety of our family life. I begged him to work on it, and dedicated myself to supporting our relationship. There was nothing left for me to do.

Of course he had met my parents before we got married. You have to understand that, growing up, the worst thing to be called in my house was "a snob." My folks were very down-to-Earth people, who did their utmost to welcome him to the family. Like a lot of women, I played down my accomplishments or couched them within contexts that didn't place the limelight on me. I was a student when we met. He knew I was writing but I didn't flash my publications. I write books and I find that I'm still a bit apologetic about it. It's just how I think through ideas. Other people run marathons, which I think is amazing. It's just where I go when I get involved in a topic; how I process. What did that have to do with our relationship anyway? That's what I thought at the time. My parents were well-known. Looking back though, when I spoke about them, I probably sounded like any other daughter who found value in their parents. He didn't know that my father is featured in hundreds of books. Again, I was focused on us. Besides, in my experience up until then, who didn't know my dad? DH was from another country. While surprised that I knew about that part of the world, I think it irked him that I was an expert in the field. I thought it was something we would share, especially as we had children. Instead of accompanying me abroad, he stayed at home and entertained people in a house I'd gotten (long before we married) from my family. When I told him it was my house (when we were dating) he, I guess, assumed it was my parents'? When we had a talk about money, I was honest with him. I don't know why that became a source of resentment when I'd been upfront about that piece? Maybe he thought it came too easily? I earned that money, but he didn't see what I do as real work. At one point I was on deadline for a book (had until the end of the year) and he thought I was selfish and myopic because I wasn't getting a real job to support the family. I feel exhausted just typing that out. His labor was real, mine was "the easy life." That is a term he used even after we were divorced. Our children are still quite young, but he has berated me for preparing them for the easy life. Honestly, I don't even know what he means by this. I'm well-read, community-oriented, and really devoted to family. I am not a snob. I don't judge or categorize pastimes into high and low culture. (I'm thinking of the opera poster here.) Sure, we scored free tickets to a Bill T. Jones event and I was really excited about that. Ever seen his work? He's amazing! To me, a partner is someone you learn and grow with over all the beautiful challenges and joys that marriage and parenthood offer. I loved sitting on the sofa with DH, watching impassioned popular movies with a social justice slant. I loved being with that man, sharing a life with him. He thinks I'm stupid and lazy. What the hell am I supposed to do with that?

Opera poster here. Next time, don't try to change him from a normal guy into someone who likes Bill T. Jones, dear. It never works. If he goes there, he's going to be nice to you, appreciate that. Don't expect him to "grow" with you because that's too much to ask.

And look, you probably irked your DH to death because you considered yourself an expert on his country because you read a few books about it, then went there and started lecturing him about his own people. How frightfully annoying that would be. Can't you see that?

I don't think you are a snob. I think you are probably a very nice person with a big personality that probably just rides roughshod over people and can't see that because you think you are trying to help them. But that is very hard for a man to take. They rebel against it. Anyone with a spine would.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that's rare. everyone I know is married to their educational/socioeconomic equal. While some are now SAHMs most had professional jobs when they met/married.

+1 Statistically, this is true. Yes, I know some men seem to love their "helpless" wives, but those helpless wives are often SAH and DH must get something (padded ego?) out of being the sole financial provider for his family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that's rare. everyone I know is married to their educational/socioeconomic equal. While some are now SAHMs most had professional jobs when they met/married.

+1 Statistically, this is true. Yes, I know some men seem to love their "helpless" wives, but those helpless wives are often SAH and DH must get something (padded ego?) out of being the sole financial provider for his family.

I think women misunderstand men on this issue, because helpless is just a flat out killer of attraction for many women, while most men would overlook a certain level of helplessness if there were enough other compensating factors. But just because they would do this, does not mean helpless is actually a positive thing, because it typically is not.