AP vs IB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:12:32 poster again - wanted to add that Robinson's website has a lot of great info. there to help you learn about IB and the differences between AP vs. IB.

Also, you can take IB classes but not pursue the IB diploma. The diploma is the part that requires the service hours, extended essay and Theory of Knowledge class.

I would be reluctant to send a kid to an IB school if he or she was not getting the full diploma. It is just too easy for colleges and universities to distinguish between students applying from IB schools on that basis.

Knew several kids who got into UVA last year who didn't take the full IB diploma and several who did the full IB and didn't get into UVA. It's one data point, but shows it's hard to make blanket statements. It does depend on the kid.

You will often hear admissions directors say that they expect to see students taking the most challenging program available at their school. You are not penalized if your school has AP rather than IB, or vice versa. However, it is easier for an admissions staffer to conclude that the diploma program is the most challenging program at an IB school than to put a fence around what the most challenging program is at an AP school.

That does not preclude some discretion at a school like U. Va. My understanding is the same as yours - we know diploma candidates at IB schools who've worked like crazy and been turned down at U. Va., W&M and Virginia Tech. If you don't have good SATs/ACTs, no amount of TOK is going to get you into those schools.

Admissions officials are not that naive. As a pp pointed out, they can tell if a student is taking advanced coursework in all areas or only in some, regardless of AP or IB. They can also differentiate between an IB diploma candidate that took SL or HL math or who just took "math studies" which is not a college level course. That may account for some diploma candidates who don't get into competitive schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:12:32 poster again - wanted to add that Robinson's website has a lot of great info. there to help you learn about IB and the differences between AP vs. IB.

Also, you can take IB classes but not pursue the IB diploma. The diploma is the part that requires the service hours, extended essay and Theory of Knowledge class.

I would be reluctant to send a kid to an IB school if he or she was not getting the full diploma. It is just too easy for colleges and universities to distinguish between students applying from IB schools on that basis.

Knew several kids who got into UVA last year who didn't take the full IB diploma and several who did the full IB and didn't get into UVA. It's one data point, but shows it's hard to make blanket statements. It does depend on the kid.

You will often hear admissions directors say that they expect to see students taking the most challenging program available at their school. You are not penalized if your school has AP rather than IB, or vice versa. However, it is easier for an admissions staffer to conclude that the diploma program is the most challenging program at an IB school than to put a fence around what the most challenging program is at an AP school.

That does not preclude some discretion at a school like U. Va. My understanding is the same as yours - we know diploma candidates at IB schools who've worked like crazy and been turned down at U. Va., W&M and Virginia Tech. If you don't have good SATs/ACTs, no amount of TOK is going to get you into those schools.

Admissions officials are not that naive. As a pp pointed out, they can tell if a student is taking advanced coursework in all areas or only in some, regardless of AP or IB. They can also differentiate between an IB diploma candidate that took SL or HL math or who just took "math studies" which is not a college level course. That may account for some diploma candidates who don't get into competitive schools.

Admissions officials are not all cut from the same cloth, but I've seen enough of them to know I'd only want my kids at an IB school if they were doing the full diploma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:12:32 poster again - wanted to add that Robinson's website has a lot of great info. there to help you learn about IB and the differences between AP vs. IB.

Also, you can take IB classes but not pursue the IB diploma. The diploma is the part that requires the service hours, extended essay and Theory of Knowledge class.

I would be reluctant to send a kid to an IB school if he or she was not getting the full diploma. It is just too easy for colleges and universities to distinguish between students applying from IB schools on that basis.

Knew several kids who got into UVA last year who didn't take the full IB diploma and several who did the full IB and didn't get into UVA. It's one data point, but shows it's hard to make blanket statements. It does depend on the kid.

You will often hear admissions directors say that they expect to see students taking the most challenging program available at their school. You are not penalized if your school has AP rather than IB, or vice versa. However, it is easier for an admissions staffer to conclude that the diploma program is the most challenging program at an IB school than to put a fence around what the most challenging program is at an AP school.

That does not preclude some discretion at a school like U. Va. My understanding is the same as yours - we know diploma candidates at IB schools who've worked like crazy and been turned down at U. Va., W&M and Virginia Tech. If you don't have good SATs/ACTs, no amount of TOK is going to get you into those schools.

Admissions officials are not that naive. As a pp pointed out, they can tell if a student is taking advanced coursework in all areas or only in some, regardless of AP or IB. They can also differentiate between an IB diploma candidate that took SL or HL math or who just took "math studies" which is not a college level course. That may account for some diploma candidates who don't get into competitive schools.

Admissions officials are not all cut from the same cloth, but I've seen enough of them to know I'd only want my kids at an IB school if they were doing the full diploma.

You've "seen" them? Did you spot them in your back yard after a few too many glasses of wine? You really sound like you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Anonymous]

Last week, I went on college tours at NYU and Columbia. At both sessions, the question of IB vs. AP was asked. Both admissions officers stated that their school has no preference, and one officer stated that they have many students that apply to the school from outside the US, where IB is more prevalent. In short, neither school seemed to care which system you came from, as long as you were taking challenging courses.
Regarding whether "credit" will be given for AP and IB courses, both schools stated that high school course work may allow you to enter into higher level courses, but that you still had to take the full number of required hours in order to receive a diploma. At Columbia, one of the tour guides went further by stating that you had to take all of the first year "core curriculum" regardless of how many AP or IB credits you had. I think she said something like -- after all, you are coming to Columbia in order to get a degree from Columbia -- not your high school.
PP -- my DD transferred from an AP school to

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:12:32 poster again - wanted to add that Robinson's website has a lot of great info. there to help you learn about IB and the differences between AP vs. IB.

Also, you can take IB classes but not pursue the IB diploma. The diploma is the part that requires the service hours, extended essay and Theory of Knowledge class.

I would be reluctant to send a kid to an IB school if he or she was not getting the full diploma. It is just too easy for colleges and universities to distinguish between students applying from IB schools on that basis.

Knew several kids who got into UVA last year who didn't take the full IB diploma and several who did the full IB and didn't get into UVA. It's one data point, but shows it's hard to make blanket statements. It does depend on the kid.

You will often hear admissions directors say that they expect to see students taking the most challenging program available at their school. You are not penalized if your school has AP rather than IB, or vice versa. However, it is easier for an admissions staffer to conclude that the diploma program is the most challenging program at an IB school than to put a fence around what the most challenging program is at an AP school.

That does not preclude some discretion at a school like U. Va. My understanding is the same as yours - we know diploma candidates at IB schools who've worked like crazy and been turned down at U. Va., W&M and Virginia Tech. If you don't have good SATs/ACTs, no amount of TOK is going to get you into those schools.

Admissions officials are not that naive. As a pp pointed out, they can tell if a student is taking advanced coursework in all areas or only in some, regardless of AP or IB. They can also differentiate between an IB diploma candidate that took SL or HL math or who just took "math studies" which is not a college level course. That may account for some diploma candidates who don't get into competitive schools.

Admissions officials are not all cut from the same cloth, but I've seen enough of them to know I'd only want my kids at an IB school if they were doing the full diploma.

You've "seen" them? Did you spot them in your back yard after a few too many glasses of wine? You really sound like you have no idea what you're talking about.

Uh, no. More like in numerous Q&A sessions. No need to get nasty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Last week, I went on college tours at NYU and Columbia. At both sessions, the question of IB vs. AP was asked. Both admissions officers stated that their school has no preference, and one officer stated that they have many students that apply to the school from outside the US, where IB is more prevalent. In short, neither school seemed to care which system you came from, as long as you were taking challenging courses.
Regarding whether "credit" will be given for AP and IB courses, both schools stated that high school course work may allow you to enter into higher level courses, but that you still had to take the full number of required hours in order to receive a diploma. At Columbia, one of the tour guides went further by stating that you had to take all of the first year "core curriculum" regardless of how many AP or IB credits you had. I think she said something like -- after all, you are coming to Columbia in order to get a degree from Columbia -- not your high school.
PP -- my DD transferred from an AP school to an IB school because she thought that the curriculum better suited her interests

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:12:32 poster again - wanted to add that Robinson's website has a lot of great info. there to help you learn about IB and the differences between AP vs. IB.

Also, you can take IB classes but not pursue the IB diploma. The diploma is the part that requires the service hours, extended essay and Theory of Knowledge class.

I would be reluctant to send a kid to an IB school if he or she was not getting the full diploma. It is just too easy for colleges and universities to distinguish between students applying from IB schools on that basis.

Knew several kids who got into UVA last year who didn't take the full IB diploma and several who did the full IB and didn't get into UVA. It's one data point, but shows it's hard to make blanket statements. It does depend on the kid.

You will often hear admissions directors say that they expect to see students taking the most challenging program available at their school. You are not penalized if your school has AP rather than IB, or vice versa. However, it is easier for an admissions staffer to conclude that the diploma program is the most challenging program at an IB school than to put a fence around what the most challenging program is at an AP school.

That does not preclude some discretion at a school like U. Va. My understanding is the same as yours - we know diploma candidates at IB schools who've worked like crazy and been turned down at U. Va., W&M and Virginia Tech. If you don't have good SATs/ACTs, no amount of TOK is going to get you into those schools.

Admissions officials are not that naive. As a pp pointed out, they can tell if a student is taking advanced coursework in all areas or only in some, regardless of AP or IB. They can also differentiate between an IB diploma candidate that took SL or HL math or who just took "math studies" which is not a college level course. That may account for some diploma candidates who don't get into competitive schools.

Admissions officials are not all cut from the same cloth, but I've seen enough of them to know I'd only want my kids at an IB school if they were doing the full diploma.

You've "seen" them? Did you spot them in your back yard after a few too many glasses of wine? You really sound like you have no idea what you're talking about.

Uh, no. More like in numerous Q&A sessions. No need to get nasty.

Soundsike quite the scientific study you've conducted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB is a deal-breaker for me when we look for houses. Not going to do it. I was completely fine with it until I looked into it further. There are a lot of kids who are full-force into IB ... and then they decide later that it's not worth it. These are really motivated kids who for whatever reason decide not to finish it. Yes, they can get college credits for each course, but they have to take all their exams at the end of senior year and several courses are two year courses -- who would want to commit to two years of a single course? Even in college kids don't commit to two years. Seems illogical that anyone would expect a 16 yr. old to commit to a course that long.

In theory, the IB program looks fantastic -- with the capstone and the community service and global thinking... but in practice, it just seems like it doesn't work for the vast majority of kids who are excellent students and very motivated when they start the program.

I also know of a family where they had to make an unexpected military move after the first year of a two year course and the kid wouldn't be going to an IB school once they moved... guess what... no credit for the class he just spent a YEAR on.

In practice, I think most teens are better suited to taking a la carte AP classes. As a parent, I like what IB promises... but seems like it doesn't deliver (or the kids can't/don't deliver the final IB degree very often).

There are a number of homes I would like in several IB school zones... but it's not gonna happen b/c of the IB program.

You must have young kids. Your post is pretty much based on hearsay and is way off.

I have a house zoned for an IB high school, and I will not be sending my children to that high school for precisely that reason. If they have their heart set on it, I will try and steer them another way. AP is better in every way.

Several of my directors at work who send their kids to top prep and private schools in the area report that those schools offer loads of AP classes, but I have never heard them mention IB, not once, and they love talking about their children, and how they are doing in school, and extracurricular activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB is a deal-breaker for me when we look for houses. Not going to do it. I was completely fine with it until I looked into it further. There are a lot of kids who are full-force into IB ... and then they decide later that it's not worth it. These are really motivated kids who for whatever reason decide not to finish it. Yes, they can get college credits for each course, but they have to take all their exams at the end of senior year and several courses are two year courses -- who would want to commit to two years of a single course? Even in college kids don't commit to two years. Seems illogical that anyone would expect a 16 yr. old to commit to a course that long.

In theory, the IB program looks fantastic -- with the capstone and the community service and global thinking... but in practice, it just seems like it doesn't work for the vast majority of kids who are excellent students and very motivated when they start the program.

I also know of a family where they had to make an unexpected military move after the first year of a two year course and the kid wouldn't be going to an IB school once they moved... guess what... no credit for the class he just spent a YEAR on.

In practice, I think most teens are better suited to taking a la carte AP classes. As a parent, I like what IB promises... but seems like it doesn't deliver (or the kids can't/don't deliver the final IB degree very often).

There are a number of homes I would like in several IB school zones... but it's not gonna happen b/c of the IB program.

You must have young kids. Your post is pretty much based on hearsay and is way off.

Not the PP, but he/she makes several valid points.

* Many kids who think they want IB don't end up pursuing the full IB diploma.

* Many IB courses are two-year courses, with exams after senior year.

* If you transfer out of an IB school in FCPS, you end up having to make up courses that kids at non-IB schools take earlier (you'll have sophomores taking standard freshmen classes, juniors taking classes typically taken by sophomores, etc.)

* Some kids consider the IB writing requirements excessive and/or find the diploma program too much of a pressure-cooker.

The IB program doesn't start until junior year.

The IB schools have pre-IB courses for freshmen and sophomores, and they follow a different course sequence than the AP schools, at least in social studies.

And, further to the point, if you pupil place into an IB school, you have to commit to take a minimum number of those pre-IB courses; otherwise, the school can boot you back to your AP school.

Part of the reason is because so many kids want to transfer in to take the IB at some schools that the admin. views it as unfair since you're taking a full IB slot that some other kid might want. I know that at Marshall, for example, they've just started enforcing this because there are so many kids from nearby schools wanting to people place.

Marshall was seriously under-enrolled for a long time, so they probably didn't enforce the rules as carefully as other schools. But Marshall gets a lot of pupil placements because it's surrounded by AP schools. Other IB schools like Annandale, Lee and Mount Vernon that aren't surrounded by AP schools tend to see more students transferring out for AP than placing in for IB. If you take care of transportation, you might save money by, say, buying a less expensive home in the Lee district and pupil placing to West Springfield for AP.

The most transferred OUT OF high school in the county is Falls Church High School, and FCHS is an AP school. I learned this at a community forum. Over 140 kids pupil place to other schools surrounding Falls Church every year - Marshall being a top one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB is a deal-breaker for me when we look for houses. Not going to do it. I was completely fine with it until I looked into it further. There are a lot of kids who are full-force into IB ... and then they decide later that it's not worth it. These are really motivated kids who for whatever reason decide not to finish it. Yes, they can get college credits for each course, but they have to take all their exams at the end of senior year and several courses are two year courses -- who would want to commit to two years of a single course? Even in college kids don't commit to two years. Seems illogical that anyone would expect a 16 yr. old to commit to a course that long.

In theory, the IB program looks fantastic -- with the capstone and the community service and global thinking... but in practice, it just seems like it doesn't work for the vast majority of kids who are excellent students and very motivated when they start the program.

I also know of a family where they had to make an unexpected military move after the first year of a two year course and the kid wouldn't be going to an IB school once they moved... guess what... no credit for the class he just spent a YEAR on.

In practice, I think most teens are better suited to taking a la carte AP classes. As a parent, I like what IB promises... but seems like it doesn't deliver (or the kids can't/don't deliver the final IB degree very often).

There are a number of homes I would like in several IB school zones... but it's not gonna happen b/c of the IB program.

You must have young kids. Your post is pretty much based on hearsay and is way off.

I have a house zoned for an IB high school, and I will not be sending my children to that high school for precisely that reason. If they have their heart set on it, I will try and steer them another way. AP is better in every way.

Several of my directors at work who send their kids to top prep and private schools in the area report that those schools offer loads of AP classes, but I have never heard them mention IB, not once, and they love talking about their children, and how they are doing in school, and extracurricular activities.

Revisit this idea when your kids are in school.
And in the meantime, do your own research, form your own opinions, and learn to be respectful of your children's opinions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB is a deal-breaker for me when we look for houses. Not going to do it. I was completely fine with it until I looked into it further. There are a lot of kids who are full-force into IB ... and then they decide later that it's not worth it. These are really motivated kids who for whatever reason decide not to finish it. Yes, they can get college credits for each course, but they have to take all their exams at the end of senior year and several courses are two year courses -- who would want to commit to two years of a single course? Even in college kids don't commit to two years. Seems illogical that anyone would expect a 16 yr. old to commit to a course that long.

In theory, the IB program looks fantastic -- with the capstone and the community service and global thinking... but in practice, it just seems like it doesn't work for the vast majority of kids who are excellent students and very motivated when they start the program.

I also know of a family where they had to make an unexpected military move after the first year of a two year course and the kid wouldn't be going to an IB school once they moved... guess what... no credit for the class he just spent a YEAR on.

In practice, I think most teens are better suited to taking a la carte AP classes. As a parent, I like what IB promises... but seems like it doesn't deliver (or the kids can't/don't deliver the final IB degree very often).

There are a number of homes I would like in several IB school zones... but it's not gonna happen b/c of the IB program.

You must have young kids. Your post is pretty much based on hearsay and is way off.

Not the PP, but he/she makes several valid points.

* Many kids who think they want IB don't end up pursuing the full IB diploma.

* Many IB courses are two-year courses, with exams after senior year.

* If you transfer out of an IB school in FCPS, you end up having to make up courses that kids at non-IB schools take earlier (you'll have sophomores taking standard freshmen classes, juniors taking classes typically taken by sophomores, etc.)

* Some kids consider the IB writing requirements excessive and/or find the diploma program too much of a pressure-cooker.

The IB program doesn't start until junior year.

The IB schools have pre-IB courses for freshmen and sophomores, and they follow a different course sequence than the AP schools, at least in social studies.

And, further to the point, if you pupil place into an IB school, you have to commit to take a minimum number of those pre-IB courses; otherwise, the school can boot you back to your AP school.

Part of the reason is because so many kids want to transfer in to take the IB at some schools that the admin. views it as unfair since you're taking a full IB slot that some other kid might want. I know that at Marshall, for example, they've just started enforcing this because there are so many kids from nearby schools wanting to people place.

Marshall was seriously under-enrolled for a long time, so they probably didn't enforce the rules as carefully as other schools. But Marshall gets a lot of pupil placements because it's surrounded by AP schools. Other IB schools like Annandale, Lee and Mount Vernon that aren't surrounded by AP schools tend to see more students transferring out for AP than placing in for IB. If you take care of transportation, you might save money by, say, buying a less expensive home in the Lee district and pupil placing to West Springfield for AP.

The most transferred OUT OF high school in the county is Falls Church High School, and FCHS is an AP school. I learned this at a community forum. Over 140 kids pupil place to other schools surrounding Falls Church every year - Marshall being a top one.

Wrong. There are more transfers out of Lee, an IB school, than out of Falls Church.

Falls Church does lose a lot of students to other schools. That is largely due to the school's poor physical condition. When FCPS renovates Falls Church, pupil placements will decline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last week, I went on college tours at NYU and Columbia. At both sessions, the question of IB vs. AP was asked. Both admissions officers stated that their school has no preference, and one officer stated that they have many students that apply to the school from outside the US, where IB is more prevalent. In short, neither school seemed to care which system you came from, as long as you were taking challenging courses.
Regarding whether "credit" will be given for AP and IB courses, both schools stated that high school course work may allow you to enter into higher level courses, but that you still had to take the full number of required hours in order to receive a diploma. At Columbia, one of the tour guides went further by stating that you had to take all of the first year "core curriculum" regardless of how many AP or IB credits you had. I think she said something like -- after all, you are coming to Columbia in order to get a degree from Columbia -- not your high school.
PP -- my DD transferred from an AP school to an IB school because she thought that the curriculum better suited her interests

Thanks for posting this reality check. I think parents who haven't been through the actual process for college applications are making a lot of assumptions here about the magical power of getting credit for either AP or IB courses.

The intense focus by parents on having their kids knock off college credits via AP is one problem we, and our child, have with AP. She saw older friends who spent much of high school focused entirely on how many credits they would have for college; what they were actually learning, and whether they were interested and engaged and developing skills that would serve them well in college coursework later, wasn't of much consideration for them or especially their parents. I know not all AP is like that, but it sure was among some of her friends, and their parents encouraged that attitude.

A friend's son told us how in his first freshman class at college, the instructor asked how many of the students had ever done a research paper in HS of 3,000 words or more. The son was the only student who raised his hand. He had done the IB diploma, which requires students to do a research essay of 4,000 words. He said that in his freshman year a lot of his friends (many of whom had done AP) were constantly struggling with the extensive writing requirements of college, but he was fine with it, and he credited IB.

Yes, that is just one anecdotal example, but it's as valid as the "examples" on this thread by parents criticizing IB as useless for college credits. It sure built his readiness for college work.

The parents posting about how they would never let their kids do IB when the time comes are not thinking about whether their children might want some say in their own high school curriculum choices. Looking at other posts on this thread, I'm seeing that parents who posted that their kids were moving schools in order to take IB tended to mention that the kids wanted it and the kids felt that the curriculum "better suited their interests," as above. I know several students who moved out of IB schools to pursue AP and several students who moved from AP schools to pursue IB. But in each case the choice came from consultation and parents treating the kids as responsible enough to have at least some input in choices.

[Anonymous]

I imagine most of the transfer out of Lee are to West Springfield. Many of the homes zoned for Lee in Daventry and Saratoga areas are closer to West Springfield than to Lee HS and I'm sure many of those parents want their kids in the "better" HS. The kids could probably care less about IB vs. AP. I'm not as familiar with the Falls Church HS boundaries, but I wouldn't be surprised if you have the same phenomenon there.

I wonder what sort of tune many of the anti-IB posters on here would be singing if, say, 20 years ago, FCPS had decided to put IB in the "better" FCPS schools and left AP in the "lesser" FCPS schools. Oh, I'm sure you'll tell us that your opinion would be unchanged based on your objective, scientific analysis of college admissions, but somehow, I sort of doubt it.

[Anonymous]

OP I live near OHS. It is a very nice school. I would not pupil place into Marshall or SL from that location. Oakton is a good school and those schools are far. You are looking at a LOT of traffic/ commuting time for course work that is part of a program with problems -- and not the same as the overseas program. We had one neighbor who went to SL -- transferred out ASAP. Same Marshall. Marshall is great for some students, but it is not the perfect school that the supporters say it is.

[Anonymous]

I wonder what sort of tune many of the anti-IB posters on here would be singing if, say, 20 years ago, FCPS had decided to put IB in the "better" FCPS schools and left AP in the "lesser" FCPS schools. Oh, I'm sure you'll tell us that your opinion would be unchanged based on your objective, scientific analysis of college admissions, but somehow, I sort of doubt it.

NO. I think those schools are happy with the AP program. I think you put everything on a racial/class card. The IB program is an expense that FCPS does not need in these times.