Is giving up making your own money a bad idea for ANY woman? (philosophical ponderings)

[Anonymous]

Honestly, I think it's smart to view working as an insurance policy. I think a lot of people don't see the long term value of working and over estimate what daycare costs will do to an income (and don't view retirement contribution or carrying health benefits as important). I originally wanted to stay home full time. I thank god daily I dragged myself to work during those hard times now, though. And I say this as the WOHP with a SAHP spouse.

We are in this spot because my spouse can't find a job after a job loss (they are looking but it's hard). From my view, it's incredibly stressful and one thing that has saved my sanity was the realization that we would assume spouse would earn nothing and live on my income. Going from a two income to one is going to require serious cut backs but just crossing your fingers and hoping for a second income isn't going to make it appear. We are going to have to stop living like a two income couple (which really gave us so much more flexibility). Having that back up saved our bacon. And I don't know what my spouse would do if they were left holding the bag because I didn't have a job either. This economy is too precarious, man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not worth the time to consider because you can't extrapolate out from individual couples. In other words, it's all micro, no macro. I'm sorry your husband had mental problems and you got divorced but that has nothing to do with me. Every marriage is different and no one knows what goes on inside a marriage except the two people in it.

How wonderful to have 1000% certainty that nothing bad will ever befall you.

I agree with PP. My parents are together, reasonably happily, as are DH's parents. While either DH or I could lose our health or our jobs, I don't foresee divorce in our future. Our kids are young, we're still paying off debt and living paycheck-to-paycheck (yes, I 'm working part-time because we can't afford for me to SAHM, we tried it). When we're more financially secure, then we'll make better plans for future disasters.

I don't see divorce in my future either, but what about an extreme illness or accident leading my husband to be out of work for a very long period of time?

Np. You can buy insurance for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not worth the time to consider because you can't extrapolate out from individual couples. In other words, it's all micro, no macro. I'm sorry your husband had mental problems and you got divorced but that has nothing to do with me. Every marriage is different and no one knows what goes on inside a marriage except the two people in it.

How wonderful to have 1000% certainty that nothing bad will ever befall you.

I agree with PP. My parents are together, reasonably happily, as are DH's parents. While either DH or I could lose our health or our jobs, I don't foresee divorce in our future. Our kids are young, we're still paying off debt and living paycheck-to-paycheck (yes, I 'm working part-time because we can't afford for me to SAHM, we tried it). When we're more financially secure, then we'll make better plans for future disasters.

I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but how old are you?

I know of three couples who all were as you describe -- parents together, happily, kids, happy family dynamic, seemingly everything right. And then, in all three cases, one spouse -- who was never the type to cheat, seemed completely perfectly matched and content in their marriage -- met someone, and the result was divorce. In two cases, this happened after at least 10 years of marriage. (In one case, it happened after 15 years of marriage.) And in all three cases, it was a COMPLETE shock to the spouse being left, because they honestly never even imagined divorce would be a possibility.

I've never heard someone going through a divorce say "I totally thought we'd get divorced." Most people say, "I never thought we'd get divorced."

PP here. Again, that's why individual circumstances matter. My spouse and I have been married for over ten years. If he left me tomorrow, as unlikely a possibility as that is, I'd walk away with at least three mil dollars plus child support for a child who is only 1 and likely alimony for a # of years. More than enough to start over. If he dies, god forbid, I'd cash out his life insurances policy and be set for life. We have stock that pays a passive income stream of about ~60k after taxes. I'd trim my budget and live off that. We have long term care and disability insurance. You don't have to worry about me. I will be fine one way or another.

[Anonymous]

We have a child with severe developmental delays, we really need to have someone at home rather than relying entirely on outside caregivers. Obviously that creates a risk if we divorce, but I can't sacrifice my child's actual needs for that hypothetical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not worth the time to consider because you can't extrapolate out from individual couples. In other words, it's all micro, no macro. I'm sorry your husband had mental problems and you got divorced but that has nothing to do with me. Every marriage is different and no one knows what goes on inside a marriage except the two people in it.

How wonderful to have 1000% certainty that nothing bad will ever befall you.

I agree with PP. My parents are together, reasonably happily, as are DH's parents. While either DH or I could lose our health or our jobs, I don't foresee divorce in our future. Our kids are young, we're still paying off debt and living paycheck-to-paycheck (yes, I 'm working part-time because we can't afford for me to SAHM, we tried it). When we're more financially secure, then we'll make better plans for future disasters.

I don't see divorce in my future either, but what about an extreme illness or accident leading my husband to be out of work for a very long period of time?

Np. You can buy insurance for this.

You can get term life insurance. But insurance to pay if your husband can't work? How long is that good for? You need like a $1M policy b/c u have non income and likely care and medical costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not worth the time to consider because you can't extrapolate out from individual couples. In other words, it's all micro, no macro. I'm sorry your husband had mental problems and you got divorced but that has nothing to do with me. Every marriage is different and no one knows what goes on inside a marriage except the two people in it.

How wonderful to have 1000% certainty that nothing bad will ever befall you.

I agree with PP. My parents are together, reasonably happily, as are DH's parents. While either DH or I could lose our health or our jobs, I don't foresee divorce in our future. Our kids are young, we're still paying off debt and living paycheck-to-paycheck (yes, I 'm working part-time because we can't afford for me to SAHM, we tried it). When we're more financially secure, then we'll make better plans for future disasters.

I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but how old are you?

I know of three couples who all were as you describe -- parents together, happily, kids, happy family dynamic, seemingly everything right. And then, in all three cases, one spouse -- who was never the type to cheat, seemed completely perfectly matched and content in their marriage -- met someone, and the result was divorce. In two cases, this happened after at least 10 years of marriage. (In one case, it happened after 15 years of marriage.) And in all three cases, it was a COMPLETE shock to the spouse being left, because they honestly never even imagined divorce would be a possibility.

I've never heard someone going through a divorce say "I totally thought we'd get divorced." Most people say, "I never thought we'd get divorced."

PP here. Again, that's why individual circumstances matter. My spouse and I have been married for over ten years. If he left me tomorrow, as unlikely a possibility as that is, I'd walk away with at least three mil dollars plus child support for a child who is only 1 and likely alimony for a # of years. More than enough to start over. If he dies, god forbid, I'd cash out his life insurances policy and be set for life. We have stock that pays a passive income stream of about ~60k after taxes. I'd trim my budget and live off that. We have long term care and disability insurance. You don't have to worry about me. I will be fine one way or another.

Folks who marry $$$$ really aren't the people this thread is worried about

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not worth the time to consider because you can't extrapolate out from individual couples. In other words, it's all micro, no macro. I'm sorry your husband had mental problems and you got divorced but that has nothing to do with me. Every marriage is different and no one knows what goes on inside a marriage except the two people in it.

How wonderful to have 1000% certainty that nothing bad will ever befall you.

I agree with PP. My parents are together, reasonably happily, as are DH's parents. While either DH or I could lose our health or our jobs, I don't foresee divorce in our future. Our kids are young, we're still paying off debt and living paycheck-to-paycheck (yes, I 'm working part-time because we can't afford for me to SAHM, we tried it). When we're more financially secure, then we'll make better plans for future disasters.

I don't see divorce in my future either, but what about an extreme illness or accident leading my husband to be out of work for a very long period of time?

Np. You can buy insurance for this.

You can get term life insurance. But insurance to pay if your husband can't work? How long is that good for? You need like a $1M policy b/c u have non income and likely care and medical costs.

You buy long-term disability coverage, which will replace a % of income. That can last for the number of years provided in the policy, and some will provide that it can last until the person reaches retirement age.

[Anonymous]

Just wanted to point out that most working moms are NOT like the ones in DC where they are pulling in six figures. Many are working low-wages jobs that could pretty easily be gotten so there is no real "insurance" of working.

Some of my friends back home making 30k a year -- how is this working "insurance" against a husband leaving? I suppose you have SS, but if you've been married 10 years, you get your spouse's SS.

And please don't say 401K and pensions etc. -- many, many, many jobs have no such perks.

Do what's best for your family, but there are no hard and fast rules.

[Anonymous]

It is not a black and white issue, there are lots of ways to arrange finances and distribute income whether you both work or one parent stays at home. The bottom line is, like in EVERYTHING, else in life you have to make choices and plans that work for your individual situation-- there is no one blueprint for how that works for EVERYONE.
So sorry that you are in the position you are in OP.

[Anonymous]

I don't know, in my family of origin and in my marriage it's all just considered a team effort. Some people are in more lucrative career paths than others, so they help each other out. Some people have more time on their hands, so they take care of the kids or the elderly parents who need it. If someone got divorced, I expect the extended family would step in just as they have in other crises -- by helping out for a while as people get back on their feet. We give some of our collective salaries to my husband's in-laws who need it; it has never occurred to me whether that comes out of "his" money or "mine." And I feel comfortable knowing that if one of us ever needed it someone would help us out as well.

[Anonymous]

My parents got divorced when I was 4 and my dad was never consistent with child support. My mom, who had previously been a SAHM, had to go back into the workforce and support two kids. SHe ended up having a very successful career, but that was a different time and even then it was NOT easy, for her or for my sister and me. My DH's parents split up when he was in middle school. His father was more reliable about payments but they'd never had much money to start with, so paying for two households was tough. His mom went back to work and was able to support herself, but barely, and if she had lived to old age she probably would have been in trouble financially.

Despite that history, my DH and I decided to have me stay home. We're not rich by DC standards (he makes about $325K) but we live below our means. We work with a financial planner and we have plenty of savings/assets and are both well-insured for death or disability. I'm not naïve about marriage, but my DH and I have been together for over 15 years and seen each other through a lot of life shit, and we've grown nothing but closer over time. I am as secure in my marriage as I ever could be about anything. And I really do think most people who get divorced knew it was a possibility, whether they admit it or not. Does this mean it's a hundred percent guarantee we'll never get divorced? Of course not. But I'm willing to take the gamble on living our day-to-day lives the way that makes us happy as a family.

If we were to split up and my DH did not treat me generously with alimony and whatnot, I do have a few "backup plans." I am trained for 2 careers, and my much-less-preferred one is one that I could step back into fairly easily. It's not lucrative and my lifestyle would have to change, but it would be enough. Also, my mom and stepdad are fairly comfortable financially, and they would never let my kids or me go homeless. Sure, it would suck to have to adjust my lifestyle downward, but I know I would be OK. I have open eyes and I'm comfortable with the pros/cons/risks of my choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not worth the time to consider because you can't extrapolate out from individual couples. In other words, it's all micro, no macro. I'm sorry your husband had mental problems and you got divorced but that has nothing to do with me. Every marriage is different and no one knows what goes on inside a marriage except the two people in it.

How wonderful to have 1000% certainty that nothing bad will ever befall you.

I agree with PP. My parents are together, reasonably happily, as are DH's parents. While either DH or I could lose our health or our jobs, I don't foresee divorce in our future. Our kids are young, we're still paying off debt and living paycheck-to-paycheck (yes, I 'm working part-time because we can't afford for me to SAHM, we tried it). When we're more financially secure, then we'll make better plans for future disasters.

I don't see divorce in my future either, but what about an extreme illness or accident leading my husband to be out of work for a very long period of time?

Np. You can buy insurance for this.

You can get term life insurance. But insurance to pay if your husband can't work? How long is that good for? You need like a $1M policy b/c u have non income and likely care and medical costs.

You buy long-term disability coverage, which will replace a % of income. That can last for the number of years provided in the policy, and some will provide that it can last until the person reaches retirement age.

That's if he is long-term disabled. What if we're just talking garden variety severe economic downturn and loss of job/income for months or years? I mean, there's a lot that can happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not worth the time to consider because you can't extrapolate out from individual couples. In other words, it's all micro, no macro. I'm sorry your husband had mental problems and you got divorced but that has nothing to do with me. Every marriage is different and no one knows what goes on inside a marriage except the two people in it.

How wonderful to have 1000% certainty that nothing bad will ever befall you.

I agree with PP. My parents are together, reasonably happily, as are DH's parents. While either DH or I could lose our health or our jobs, I don't foresee divorce in our future. Our kids are young, we're still paying off debt and living paycheck-to-paycheck (yes, I 'm working part-time because we can't afford for me to SAHM, we tried it). When we're more financially secure, then we'll make better plans for future disasters.

I don't see divorce in my future either, but what about an extreme illness or accident leading my husband to be out of work for a very long period of time?

Np. You can buy insurance for this.

You can get term life insurance. But insurance to pay if your husband can't work? How long is that good for? You need like a $1M policy b/c u have non income and likely care and medical costs.

You buy long-term disability coverage, which will replace a % of income. That can last for the number of years provided in the policy, and some will provide that it can last until the person reaches retirement age.

That's if he is long-term disabled. What if we're just talking garden variety severe economic downturn and loss of job/income for months or years? I mean, there's a lot that can happen.

Just as all families, dual income and single income, need long term disability. All families need to plan for potential job loss- that is why people are told to have 6-12 months of expenses saved for emergencies. Life would be different regardless of what dynamic there was before. It is not a sahp issue; it is a family issue.

[Anonymous]

I totally need my own money. Need my own career too. But that's my own personal psychological profile, and the person I'm married to; not generally applicable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My parents got divorced when I was 4 and my dad was never consistent with child support. My mom, who had previously been a SAHM, had to go back into the workforce and support two kids. SHe ended up having a very successful career, but that was a different time and even then it was NOT easy, for her or for my sister and me. My DH's parents split up when he was in middle school. His father was more reliable about payments but they'd never had much money to start with, so paying for two households was tough. His mom went back to work and was able to support herself, but barely, and if she had lived to old age she probably would have been in trouble financially.

Despite that history, my DH and I decided to have me stay home. We're not rich by DC standards (he makes about $325K) but we live below our means. We work with a financial planner and we have plenty of savings/assets and are both well-insured for death or disability. I'm not naïve about marriage, but my DH and I have been together for over 15 years and seen each other through a lot of life shit, and we've grown nothing but closer over time. I am as secure in my marriage as I ever could be about anything. And I really do think most people who get divorced knew it was a possibility, whether they admit it or not. Does this mean it's a hundred percent guarantee we'll never get divorced? Of course not. But I'm willing to take the gamble on living our day-to-day lives the way that makes us happy as a family.

If we were to split up and my DH did not treat me generously with alimony and whatnot, I do have a few "backup plans." I am trained for 2 careers, and my much-less-preferred one is one that I could step back into fairly easily. It's not lucrative and my lifestyle would have to change, but it would be enough. Also, my mom and stepdad are fairly comfortable financially, and they would never let my kids or me go homeless. Sure, it would suck to have to adjust my lifestyle downward, but I know I would be OK. I have open eyes and I'm comfortable with the pros/cons/risks of my choices.

I think you're right. I'm not that happily married, and I need the ability to support my self and my kids, so I wouldn't be happy AH.