Arghh MCPS Math!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Hey genius, do you think it's possible your child does better in math because he/she was properly taught via drills and rote memorization? Telling someone their child is not as smart as they think is unneccessary and makes you look like an ass.

Actually, even if your kid has a brain that can grasp Math concepts easily, without practice (and some drills and rote memorization), that advantage is lost. Yes, many people think their kid is smart, but they think that that is enough. As a result, when there comes a time to "quantify" that smartness to avail of more opportunities, their kids fail. So, maybe the kid is not that smart or maybe the parents are not that smart.

Your job as a parent overseeing your kid's academic success is to nurture their talents and make sure that they work on conquering their weakness. Math is a subject that anyone can master, if they are given the appropriate instruction and training. If MCPS is not meeting your needs then you make it happen outside of MCPS.

When I hear a child say that they are not good at Math, I hear the doors of many opportunities slamming shut for them!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Hey genius, do you think it's possible your child does better in math because he/she was properly taught via drills and rote memorization? Telling someone their child is not as smart as they think is unneccessary and makes you look like an ass.

Actually, even if your kid has a brain that can grasp Math concepts easily, without practice (and some drills and rote memorization), that advantage is lost. Yes, many people think their kid is smart, but they think that that is enough. As a result, when there comes a time to "quantify" that smartness to avail of more opportunities, their kids fail. So, maybe the kid is not that smart or maybe the parents are not that smart.

Your job as a parent overseeing your kid's academic success is to nurture their talents and make sure that they work on conquering their weakness. Math is a subject that anyone can master, if they are given the appropriate instruction and training. If MCPS is not meeting your needs then you make it happen outside of MCPS.

When I hear a child say that they are not good at Math, I hear the doors of many opportunities slamming shut for them!

I am the person who wrote the "Hey Genius" quote and I could not agree more with the person who responded with the above. You are correct that math proficiency has to be trained. One child is gifted in math and in the HGC to NO small part due to the excellent teachers DC had in MCPS prior to 2.0. The previous poster is correct even if gifted skills need to be sharpened and maintained. The main difference I see between my DC and others is that math concepts come easy and often do not need to be explained, but in order to have mastery there has to be some rote memorization to expand and dive off into higher levels of thought.

My other child is bright but he is receiving a completely different education under 2.0. The work is no where as complex and mastery of math facts is implemented.

The only STRONG disagreement I have with the previous poster is that it is the parents responsibility to make sure the child is learning by supplementing at home. It is the job of the schools to teach children, not parents who are pretty damn tired after a full day of work, getting dinner on the table and trying to spend time with their kids to have to supplement the education we as taxpayers we have provided.

I am a scientist, I am comfortable with math and understand what to teach and what my child needs. I know many parents who don't have that comfort level, nor should that be necessary.

When I hear a child say that they are not good at Math, I hear the doors of many opportunities slamming shut for them!


Completely agree and at least with my childs' friends a dislike of science also follows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Hey genius, do you think it's possible your child does better in math because he/she was properly taught via drills and rote memorization? Telling someone their child is not as smart as they think is unneccessary and makes you look like an ass.

Actually, even if your kid has a brain that can grasp Math concepts easily, without practice (and some drills and rote memorization), that advantage is lost. Yes, many people think their kid is smart, but they think that that is enough. As a result, when there comes a time to "quantify" that smartness to avail of more opportunities, their kids fail. So, maybe the kid is not that smart or maybe the parents are not that smart.

Your job as a parent overseeing your kid's academic success is to nurture their talents and make sure that they work on conquering their weakness. Math is a subject that anyone can master, if they are given the appropriate instruction and training. If MCPS is not meeting your needs then you make it happen outside of MCPS.

When I hear a child say that they are not good at Math, I hear the doors of many opportunities slamming shut for them!

I am the person who wrote the "Hey Genius" quote and I could not agree more with the person who responded with the above. You are correct that math proficiency has to be trained. One child is gifted in math and in the HGC to NO small part due to the excellent teachers DC had in MCPS prior to 2.0. The previous poster is correct even if gifted skills need to be sharpened and maintained. The main difference I see between my DC and others is that math concepts come easy and often do not need to be explained, but in order to have mastery there has to be some rote memorization to expand and dive off into higher levels of thought.

My other child is bright but he is receiving a completely different education under 2.0. The work is no where as complex and mastery of math facts is implemented.

The only STRONG disagreement I have with the previous poster is that it is the parents responsibility to make sure the child is learning by supplementing at home. It is the job of the schools to teach children, not parents who are pretty damn tired after a full day of work, getting dinner on the table and trying to spend time with their kids to have to supplement the education we as taxpayers we have provided.

I am a scientist, I am comfortable with math and understand what to teach and what my child needs. I know many parents who don't have that comfort level, nor should that be necessary.

When I hear a child say that they are not good at Math, I hear the doors of many opportunities slamming shut for them!


Completely agree and at least with my childs' friends a dislike of science also follows.

P(pp) here. In a perfect world, we would have excellent school, curriculum and dedicated teachers, but the truth is that it is often not so. Furthermore, the world has become more competitive and anyone who supplements outside of school has an advantage.

Many parents who were raised in this country have started to protest 2.0 Math, because they have realized that it is inferior to pre 2.0 Math. These parents at the very least want the standard of curriculum that they themselves had when they were students.

For many parents who were not raised in this country, we were protesting even the pre 2.0 Math, because we were used to even more rigorous Math curriculum in our own birth countries. We were supplementing even before 2.0, because we too at the very least want the standard of curriculum for our children, that we grew up with.

Yes, it is more toil for the parents now because they are managing jobs, households as well as our kid's education. We can protest all we want but before there is any impact, our kids would be out of the MCPS system. So, we all do what we have to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Many parents who were raised in this country have started to protest 2.0 Math, because they have realized that it is inferior to pre 2.0 Math. These parents at the very least want the standard of curriculum that they themselves had when they were students.

I was raised in this country, and I think that 2.0 math, or at least my experience of it through third grade, is better than pre-2.0 math. I also think that the math curriculum is better than I had when I was a student.

[Anonymous]

Has OP been back to provide more information about the math in Arkansas that is supposed to be more advanced than the math in MCPS?

[Anonymous]

Useful link for MCPS Math discussion

https://www.facebook.com/MCPSParentsSupportMathPathways

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Many parents who were raised in this country have started to protest 2.0 Math, because they have realized that it is inferior to pre 2.0 Math. These parents at the very least want the standard of curriculum that they themselves had when they were students.

For many parents who were not raised in this country, we were protesting even the pre 2.0 Math, because we were used to even more rigorous Math curriculum in our own birth countries. We were supplementing even before 2.0, because we too at the very least want the standard of curriculum for our children, that we grew up with.

Yes, it is more toil for the parents now because they are managing jobs, households as well as our kid's education. We can protest all we want but before there is any impact, our kids would be out of the MCPS system. So, we all do what we have to do.

If you were raised in an Asian country, I give no credence to this complaint. In a lot of the high achieving Asian countries, kids go to afterschool tutoring for hours everyday, and most on Saturdays, too.

If you were raised in a heavily socialist, homogeneous European country, I also don't give credence to your argument because you grew up with a lot of social benefits that most of the kids in the US don't have.

I'm sure you didn't expect the US to be like your home country. The US has a lot of challenges in educating kids that most other countries don't have.

[Anonymous]

I am the person who wrote the "Hey Genius" quote and I could not agree more with the person who responded with the above. You are correct that math proficiency has to be trained. One child is gifted in math and in the HGC to NO small part due to the excellent teachers DC had in MCPS prior to 2.0. The previous poster is correct even if gifted skills need to be sharpened and maintained. The main difference I see between my DC and others is that math concepts come easy and often do not need to be explained, but in order to have mastery there has to be some rote memorization to expand and dive off into higher levels of thought.

My other child is bright but he is receiving a completely different education under 2.0. The work is no where as complex and mastery of math facts is implemented.

The only STRONG disagreement I have with the previous poster is that it is the parents responsibility to make sure the child is learning by supplementing at home. It is the job of the schools to teach children, not parents who are pretty damn tired after a full day of work, getting dinner on the table and trying to spend time with their kids to have to supplement the education we as taxpayers we have provided.

I am a scientist, I am comfortable with math and understand what to teach and what my child needs. I know many parents who don't have that comfort level, nor should that be necessary.

When I hear a child say that they are not good at Math, I hear the doors of many opportunities slamming shut for them!

Completely agree and at least with my childs' friends a dislike of science also follows.

Agree 100%. Math 2.0 is horrible. Parents don't have choice or say in whether math is taught in school. Taking the responsibility to educate your children in math or accepting that they will not pursue a STEm career is sadly is the only options for parents in Montgomery County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Many parents who were raised in this country have started to protest 2.0 Math, because they have realized that it is inferior to pre 2.0 Math. These parents at the very least want the standard of curriculum that they themselves had when they were students.

For many parents who were not raised in this country, we were protesting even the pre 2.0 Math, because we were used to even more rigorous Math curriculum in our own birth countries. We were supplementing even before 2.0, because we too at the very least want the standard of curriculum for our children, that we grew up with.

Yes, it is more toil for the parents now because they are managing jobs, households as well as our kid's education. We can protest all we want but before there is any impact, our kids would be out of the MCPS system. So, we all do what we have to do.

If you were raised in an Asian country, I give no credence to this complaint. In a lot of the high achieving Asian countries, kids go to afterschool tutoring for hours everyday, and most on Saturdays, too.

If you were raised in a heavily socialist, homogeneous European country, I also don't give credence to your argument because you grew up with a lot of social benefits that most of the kids in the US don't have.

I'm sure you didn't expect the US to be like your home country. The US has a lot of challenges in educating kids that most other countries don't have.

Were you raised in an Asian or European country? Probably not. Neither was I raised in US, so I too did not know what to expect. One thing I was certain about was that US being the land of dreams and opportunities and a wealthy nation would have a very high standard of education. Certainly higher than what I was raised in. While materially there is a huge difference in what we were used to and what kids in this country take for granted - nice temperature controlled buildings, playground and equipments, textbooks provided by schools, free meals for poorer children etc. - in terms of curriculum, instruction and rigor there was not much vitality.

I am not saying that I came here and became critical of BOE (because that is what we do on DCUM, anonymously), but just that, the supplementing at home began for most people like us, once we realized what we had here. We are grateful for the resources here, but are disturbed by the lack of awareness and willingness to pay heed, when someone from a different nation says that WE (please recognize that I include your child and my child in this collective "we") are not competitive in the global market.

Immigrants like me do not demonstrate in front of BOE that the system should be changed. We have quietly supplemented at home and shared this on this forum. The amount of ridicule and criticism we get for sharing this here is amazing. Other nations are preparing their kids better than we do here. And with all our resources we can do better for ALL children.

It also may be that coming from not very open societies, we are used to the way the powers-that-be can screw you. So, we were able to immediately recognize how very bureaucratic and inefficient the education system here is, and we have learnt to work within this system by filling in the gaps ourselves.
You do not give credence to my complaints because you think that it is not an apples to apples comparison? Regardless of what challenges the US has - different races, different languages , different immigration status, different SES and different education level of parents - in some areas (STEM specifically) US is lagging behind. If you are so thin-skinned that you cannot face this then there is nothing more I can say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Many parents who were raised in this country have started to protest 2.0 Math, because they have realized that it is inferior to pre 2.0 Math. These parents at the very least want the standard of curriculum that they themselves had when they were students.

For many parents who were not raised in this country, we were protesting even the pre 2.0 Math, because we were used to even more rigorous Math curriculum in our own birth countries. We were supplementing even before 2.0, because we too at the very least want the standard of curriculum for our children, that we grew up with.

Yes, it is more toil for the parents now because they are managing jobs, households as well as our kid's education. We can protest all we want but before there is any impact, our kids would be out of the MCPS system. So, we all do what we have to do.

If you were raised in an Asian country, I give no credence to this complaint. In a lot of the high achieving Asian countries, kids go to afterschool tutoring for hours everyday, and most on Saturdays, too.

If you were raised in a heavily socialist, homogeneous European country, I also don't give credence to your argument because you grew up with a lot of social benefits that most of the kids in the US don't have.

I'm sure you didn't expect the US to be like your home country. The US has a lot of challenges in educating kids that most other countries don't have.

Were you raised in an Asian or European country? Probably not. Neither was I raised in US, so I too did not know what to expect. One thing I was certain about was that US being the land of dreams and opportunities and a wealthy nation would have a very high standard of education. Certainly higher than what I was raised in. While materially there is a huge difference in what we were used to and what kids in this country take for granted - nice temperature controlled buildings, playground and equipments, textbooks provided by schools, free meals for poorer children etc. - in terms of curriculum, instruction and rigor there was not much vitality.

I am not saying that I came here and became critical of BOE (because that is what we do on DCUM, anonymously), but just that, the supplementing at home began for most people like us, once we realized what we had here. We are grateful for the resources here, but are disturbed by the lack of awareness and willingness to pay heed, when someone from a different nation says that WE (please recognize that I include your child and my child in this collective "we") are not competitive in the global market.

Immigrants like me do not demonstrate in front of BOE that the system should be changed. We have quietly supplemented at home and shared this on this forum. The amount of ridicule and criticism we get for sharing this here is amazing. Other nations are preparing their kids better than we do here. And with all our resources we can do better for ALL children.

It also may be that coming from not very open societies, we are used to the way the powers-that-be can screw you. So, we were able to immediately recognize how very bureaucratic and inefficient the education system here is, and we have learnt to work within this system by filling in the gaps ourselves.
You do not give credence to my complaints because you think that it is not an apples to apples comparison? Regardless of what challenges the US has - different races, different languages , different immigration status, different SES and different education level of parents - in some areas (STEM specifically) US is lagging behind. If you are so thin-skinned that you cannot face this then there is nothing more I can say.

The US has been lagging behind prior to CC, so I don't understand how your argument addresses this specific topic. If we had kept the same curriculum and standards, you'd probably be complaining about them, too. So, again, your complaint has nothing to do with CC standards.

And yes, trying to compare the US education to other countries, especially the high-achieving Asian ones is an apples to oranges comparison. I found it really funny how the PISA country rankings singled out Shanghai from China. That was obviously a way to make "China" seem like it was higher in the rankings than they truly are. China has a huge underclass. If they took the whole of China, how would they rank? Would you be so inclined to say China has higher math standards?

If the US only took the scores from the wealthy cities, like the way China did, I'm sure the US would come up much higher in the rankings.

http://world.time.com/2013/12/04/china-is-cheating-the-world-student-rankings-system/

I'm actually from Korea, and I know what their education system is like.

[Anonymous]

Many parents who were raised in this country have started to protest 2.0 Math, because they have realized that it is inferior to pre 2.0 Math. These parents at the very least want the standard of curriculum that they themselves had when they were students.

For many parents who were not raised in this country, we were protesting even the pre 2.0 Math, because we were used to even more rigorous Math curriculum in our own birth countries. We were supplementing even before 2.0, because we too at the very least want the standard of curriculum for our children, that we grew up with.

Yes, it is more toil for the parents now because they are managing jobs, households as well as our kid's education. We can protest all we want but before there is any impact, our kids would be out of the MCPS system. So, we all do what we have to do.


If you were raised in an Asian country, I give no credence to this complaint. In a lot of the high achieving Asian countries, kids go to afterschool tutoring for hours everyday, and most on Saturdays, too.

If you were raised in a heavily socialist, homogeneous European country, I also don't give credence to your argument because you grew up with a lot of social benefits that most of the kids in the US don't have.

I'm sure you didn't expect the US to be like your home country. The US has a lot of challenges in educating kids that most other countries don't have.

You don't have to go to an Asian country for weekend tutoring. They do this in Montgomery County. Have you attended any MCPS school over the weekends? Asian tutoring parlors. I wonder what MCPS (Starr) does with all the proceeds (rentals/fees)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You don't have to go to an Asian country for weekend tutoring. They do this in Montgomery County. Have you attended any MCPS school over the weekends? Asian tutoring parlors. I wonder what MCPS (Starr) does with all the proceeds (rentals/fees)?

Starr is gone. You will have to find another source of all evil.

[Anonymous]

One of the reasons that the Asian countries out perform the US is that competition is so much more fierce in these countries. The curriculum is more rigorous but this is nothing compared to the entrance exams and level of competition to move onto higher education. Americans are very lazy. They ride on perceived laurels and haven't experienced the intense competition that countries with surging populations and intense poverty experience. The "poor" in Montgomery County would be in shock if they had to live in the conditions of the middle class let alone the poor in these countries. Americans are very clueless. Public education is barely more than a rubber stamp in the US. In other countries, its the only way to survive.

When immigrants come to this country based on succeeding through education, they can bring with them a dedication to education that is desperately needed in the US education system. They encounter a lack luster system that cares very little about gaining knowledge or encouraging achievement.

Math 2.0 is a huge step backwards. The Asian kids will be fine. Their parents will teach them on their own. Its the Americans that lose out but if you don't care about math or STEM perhaps this is fine for you.

[Anonymous]

Starr is gone. You will have to find another source of all evil.

There will be another devil to take his place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the reasons that the Asian countries out perform the US is that competition is so much more fierce in these countries. The curriculum is more rigorous but this is nothing compared to the entrance exams and level of competition to move onto higher education. Americans are very lazy. They ride on perceived laurels and haven't experienced the intense competition that countries with surging populations and intense poverty experience. The "poor" in Montgomery County would be in shock if they had to live in the conditions of the middle class let alone the poor in these countries. Americans are very clueless. Public education is barely more than a rubber stamp in the US. In other countries, its the only way to survive.

When immigrants come to this country based on succeeding through education, they can bring with them a dedication to education that is desperately needed in the US education system. They encounter a lack luster system that cares very little about gaining knowledge or encouraging achievement.

Math 2.0 is a huge step backwards. The Asian kids will be fine. Their parents will teach them on their own. Its the Americans that lose out but if you don't care about math or STEM perhaps this is fine for you.

"The Asian countries"? Which Asian countries, and by what measures do they outperform the US?