Full Pay

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please people, get back to the original question. I think the OP has a good point-- does the applicant have a better chance of admittance if they apply as a full pay.? Keep in mind, you could complete financial aid requests for their soph,junior and senior year and receive $$. Do admission offices separate applications for students asking for aid and those you do not? To the students who will not receive any significant aid, should they simply apply full pay?

It only helps if you are on the bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please people, get back to the original question. I think the OP has a good point-- does the applicant have a better chance of admittance if they apply as a full pay.? Keep in mind, you could complete financial aid requests for their soph,junior and senior year and receive $$. Do admission offices separate applications for students asking for aid and those you do not? To the students who will not receive any significant aid, should they simply apply full pay?

+1. You hit it right on the head. That's the impression I also got from OP's original question. If I were to hazard a guess, a full pay pile might warrant an additional look and consideration assuming that all the other academic credentials are competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, we are "full pay" people as well. But, not asking for need based financial aid does not eliminate the offer of "merit aid" (or discount for qualified full paid kids) which will come from some places.

Our DC applied to 12 schools, listed not applying for need based aid on every application, and was accepted at all. Some offered "merit aid" which brought the price to about the same as local private high school costs. Some offered only a simple congratulations and a space in the class. But if you are interested where the qualifications put you toward the top of the accepted class, the declining need based aid may incentivize a merit offer from the institution.

In the end our DC chose to go to one that did not offer merit aid, but there were numerous less expensive options that would have been excellent as well. Good luck.

Our experience was almost identical to this. I didn't know merit aid existed until we started the college process with older DD, who got startingly big offers from "match" schools and nothing from reaches. Younger DD is firmly focused on fit as opposed to prestige so we're targeting merit-aid schools because why pay full price when you don't have to? Apparently, according to friends in the college biz, in addition to using merit aid to recruit stat-boosting stronger students, college use it to create a measure of income diversity in the student body, I guess creating more of a range than the full pay/rich kids vs. the financial aid kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please people, get back to the original question. I think the OP has a good point-- does the applicant have a better chance of admittance if they apply as a full pay.? Keep in mind, you could complete financial aid requests for their soph,junior and senior year and receive $$. Do admission offices separate applications for students asking for aid and those you do not? To the students who will not receive any significant aid, should they simply apply full pay?

+1. You hit it right on the head. That's the impression I also got from OP's original question. If I were to hazard a guess, a full pay pile might warrant an additional look and consideration assuming that all the other academic credentials are competitive.

OP needed an additional $20,000 for college tuition and seemed to debate whether they should live off one salary and just pay the full tuition. That is very, very similar to what we went through. In the end, we decided to bite the bullet and not apply for financial aid. We will never know if that was a deciding factor in our daughter's admittance but it probably didn't hurt that we were full pay. Nor will we know if we would've gotten anything even $5000.

Bottom line is my daughter loves her school, is flourishing, and parents make their decisions based on their financial and personal situation. Our decision was the right one,, our choice, and we were fortunate to be able to pay even at sacrifice.

[Anonymous]

Another full pay story. We are two-salary, middle income. Three years before college, we decided to become debt free (other than the house and private school tuition). When it came time for DC to apply and based on the cost of the six schools, we decided to go full pay ONLY because we had eliminated the debt. We just replaced the old monthly payments with the new academic debt which we know will end in two years. DC is on their own for grad school.

The credit union gave us an excellent loan rate, automatic monthly withdrawal, and we finish paying at the end of every school year. I think it's important to point out that not everyone fits into a category that they have or should have put away much tuition money. It's wonderful if you have tens of thousands saved up but for some of us, it isn't possible for a myriad of reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, we are "full pay" people as well. But, not asking for need based financial aid does not eliminate the offer of "merit aid" (or discount for qualified full paid kids) which will come from some places.

Our DC applied to 12 schools, listed not applying for need based aid on every application, and was accepted at all. Some offered "merit aid" which brought the price to about the same as local private high school costs. Some offered only a simple congratulations and a space in the class. But if you are interested where the qualifications put you toward the top of the accepted class, the declining need based aid may incentivize a merit offer from the institution.

In the end our DC chose to go to one that did not offer merit aid, but there were numerous less expensive options that would have been excellent as well. Good luck.

Our experience was almost identical to this. I didn't know merit aid existed until we started the college process with older DD, who got startingly big offers from "match" schools and nothing from reaches. Younger DD is firmly focused on fit as opposed to prestige so we're targeting merit-aid schools because why pay full price when you don't have to? Apparently, according to friends in the college biz, in addition to using merit aid to recruit stat-boosting stronger students, college use it to create a measure of income diversity in the student body, I guess creating more of a range than the full pay/rich kids vs. the financial aid kids.

Thanks, I found these comments very helpful. I am the parent of a non-FA high school senior at an area private. We get very little information about this subject from our counseling department. My suspicion is that the counselor would rather have his/her charges attend the most prestigious college (bolstering the reputation of the independent school) than the one that was the best value for the student/family. And, they probably incorrectly assume that are "made of money" if we can afford current tuition levels without aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, we are "full pay" people as well. But, not asking for need based financial aid does not eliminate the offer of "merit aid" (or discount for qualified full paid kids) which will come from some places.

Our DC applied to 12 schools, listed not applying for need based aid on every application, and was accepted at all. Some offered "merit aid" which brought the price to about the same as local private high school costs. Some offered only a simple congratulations and a space in the class. But if you are interested where the qualifications put you toward the top of the accepted class, the declining need based aid may incentivize a merit offer from the institution.

In the end our DC chose to go to one that did not offer merit aid, but there were numerous less expensive options that would have been excellent as well. Good luck.

Our experience was almost identical to this. I didn't know merit aid existed until we started the college process with older DD, who got startingly big offers from "match" schools and nothing from reaches. Younger DD is firmly focused on fit as opposed to prestige so we're targeting merit-aid schools because why pay full price when you don't have to? Apparently, according to friends in the college biz, in addition to using merit aid to recruit stat-boosting stronger students, college use it to create a measure of income diversity in the student body, I guess creating more of a range than the full pay/rich kids vs. the financial aid kids.

Thanks, I found these comments very helpful. I am the parent of a non-FA high school senior at an area private. We get very little information about this subject from our counseling department. My suspicion is that the counselor would rather have his/her charges attend the most prestigious college (bolstering the reputation of the independent school) than the one that was the best value for the student/family. And, they probably incorrectly assume that are "made of money" if we can afford current tuition levels without aid.

I'm sure this list isn't all-inclusive but here's some additional info for you.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/most-merit-aid

[Anonymous]

OP, check out College Confidential and also a blog called the College Solution. There's excellent info available on this subject -- some CC parents in particular have really done their homework on the college process -- and you'll find long lists of schools that offer merit aid. At our DC private, kids are focused on a pretty narrow range of obvious, mostly East Coast schools, which to be fair is where most of the kids want to go anyway. But you're exactly right, if you attend one of these high schools at full pay, they just assume you're willing to double it for college. Our goal was to keep college in the same price range as high school, and that is entirely realistic if you approach it with some common sense and an open mind. Our college counselor is really fantastic at the whole art of presenting the kid as an applicant, but knows little about the financial side. A little parental involvement can definitely go a long way in this department.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, check out College Confidential and also a blog called the College Solution. There's excellent info available on this subject -- some CC parents in particular have really done their homework on the college process -- and you'll find long lists of schools that offer merit aid. At our DC private, kids are focused on a pretty narrow range of obvious, mostly East Coast schools, which to be fair is where most of the kids want to go anyway. But you're exactly right, if you attend one of these high schools at full pay, they just assume you're willing to double it for college. Our goal was to keep college in the same price range as high school, and that is entirely realistic if you approach it with some common sense and an open mind. Our college counselor is really fantastic at the whole art of presenting the kid as an applicant, but knows little about the financial side. A little parental involvement can definitely go a long way in this department.

All, very helpful. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, check out College Confidential and also a blog called the College Solution. There's excellent info available on this subject -- some CC parents in particular have really done their homework on the college process -- and you'll find long lists of schools that offer merit aid. At our DC private, kids are focused on a pretty narrow range of obvious, mostly East Coast schools, which to be fair is where most of the kids want to go anyway. But you're exactly right, if you attend one of these high schools at full pay, they just assume you're willing to double it for college. Our goal was to keep college in the same price range as high school, and that is entirely realistic if you approach it with some common sense and an open mind. Our college counselor is really fantastic at the whole art of presenting the kid as an applicant, but knows little about the financial side. A little parental involvement can definitely go a long way in this department.

I had never heard of College Solution and just spent a couple of hours reading some of the articles. It's an excellent blog. Thanks for passing this along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This article about paying for guaranteed admittance is so crazy, I couldn't stop shaking my head in disbelief.

Full pay isn't even a consideration with Think Tank Services. Unbelievable!

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-09-03/college-consultant-thinktank-guarantees-admission-for-hefty-price

Aaron says his ThinkTank counselor has mapped out a three-year plan of language instruction, advanced placement classes, SAT bootcamp, and hundreds of hours of extracurricular activities such as the golf team and Best Buddies (a group that pairs kids with special-education students) to culminate in his college applications in late 2016.

Oh, so special-ed students are tools to be used in these kids' college acceptance rat race? Yuck....
I'm amazed college admissions officers still give any weight to this phony volunteerism charade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article about paying for guaranteed admittance is so crazy, I couldn't stop shaking my head in disbelief.

Full pay isn't even a consideration with Think Tank Services. Unbelievable!

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-09-03/college-consultant-thinktank-guarantees-admission-for-hefty-price

Aaron says his ThinkTank counselor has mapped out a three-year plan of language instruction, advanced placement classes, SAT bootcamp, and hundreds of hours of extracurricular activities such as the golf team and Best Buddies (a group that pairs kids with special-education students) to culminate in his college applications in late 2016.

Oh, so special-ed students are tools to be used in these kids' college acceptance rat race? Yuck....
I'm amazed college admissions officers still give any weight to this phony volunteerism charade.

Colleges should map the post graduate career and volunteer choices of their graduates back to the interests and activities that were listed on the admissions application. How many of the kids listing "Uganda service trip" in high school ended up working with Doctors Without Borders 7 years after graduation? It would be very crude, but would certainly allow them to discount the sincerity factor in these well-orchestrated high school programs. The only tools currently at the disposal of the college admissions officers is to use continuity of interest, essays and interviews to get under the hood and detect padding and/or insincerity - and there isn't much time for deep analysis given the flood of applicants.

[Anonymous]

At what HHI is it not worth applying for FA if it is your first child going to college? $200,000?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At what HHI is it not worth applying for FA if it is your first child going to college? $200,000?

It depends. Some schools require the FAFSA to be completed to be eligible for merit aid. They do not want to give merit aid when needs based aid would have been available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At what HHI is it not worth applying for FA if it is your first child going to college? $200,000?

Depends a bit on factors such as your total assets, whether you are responsible for elderly family members, whether a family member has large medical bills, and some more things. For OP, paying for private K-12 doesn't count as an expense. They take about 1/4 of your college savings for each year, but your retirement accounts are not counted. If I had to make a really sweeping, inevitably huge over-generalization about this, which will inevitably be trashed for they huge over-generalization that it is: the FAFSA assumes that you will need about $50K for living expenses (no matter where you live in the country) and that pretty much anything above this is available for tuition. So, again as a huge over-generalization, If your HHI is $80K, you have absolutely no college savings, and you are applying for a $60K school, then you'd need about $30 K in FA. (Again, huge over-generalization, but this does give you a rough idea.)

Many colleges have good endowments and can afford to be more generous than this. One poster always comes on to point out that Harvard gives full tuition up to about $150k, but needless to say, your kid needs to get into Harvard to benefit from this. Check out the net price calculators that others have linked to, for colleges in which your kid is interested.

Note also that many colleges' FA packages will involve subsidized loans, regular loans, and work study (which can be a great experience, but still) rather than outright grants. A handful of colleges do outright grants.