FCPS Proposal to close down AAP Centers at Greenbriar West ES and Carson MS

[Anonymous]

Size of base school plays a role--our school is very small and often has only 2 classes per grade: LLIV would turn into a "smart class" and a "dumb class" in each grade, not a good thing, IMO.

Well this is exactly how center schools play out. My DC goes to one of the larger centers and while there are far more AAP classes (in fact, they outnumber the Gen Ed classes), there is the underlying - and false - assumption that the AAP classes are "smart" and Gen Ed "dumb". In fact, center schools only magnify this insanity and further the false division of students. It would be far less egregious if there was only one AAP class per grade, and the rest were all Gen Ed. Kind of like real life.

In my son's case, he has two base school classmates that went with him to the Center. One Center-eligible classmate chose to stay at the base school. So he no longer goes to the Center school and has a Local Level IV class of four students?

I wonder if they would consider multi-grade classrooms for these situations. One of my children was in a multi-grade classroom for part of elementary school, and it was a good experience. The younger group learned from the older group and the older group got to learn about and practice leadership skills.
Mixed grade classrooms would enable schools to combine eligible kids from more than one grade into one class and would enhance learning in a number of ways. Four students per grade might be too few, but with 8-10 per grade a school could combine two grade levels with one teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think Colin Powell has a strong level IV program, but it could grow even stronger if so many kids wouldn't leave for GBW. There would be enough kids for two full classes instead of just one.

agree. Same thing for most of the feeder schools of GBW. GBW name comes because of kids from feeder schools.

[Anonymous]

At our base school, one year we had 8 kids, the next year a half dozen, then almost 30 kids, then back to around 10.

The 30 year was a fluke based on that weird testing a few years ago.

How do you run a local level IV with those kinds of numbers?

Also, if our center loses all the AA kids from the feeders they will lose almost 1/3 of the population of the school, which translates into losing 1/3 of the staffing budget.

They may want to get rid of the center kids now, but they will be singing a different tune when they lose 1/3 of their specials teachers, club sponsors, PE teachers, etc.

The things that make the center school desirable are a direct result of the extra 300-ish students who attend as part of the center. They have more of a budget to do these cool things and offer these great programs BECAUSE of the 300 or so students they have that the other feeder schools do not.

I wonder if those at the center schools realize what they might lose by if they get their wishes and have the centers moved from their schools.

Be careful what you wish for...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At our base school, one year we had 8 kids, the next year a half dozen, then almost 30 kids, then back to around 10.

The 30 year was a fluke based on that weird testing a few years ago.

How do you run a local level IV with those kinds of numbers?

Also, if our center loses all the AA kids from the feeders they will lose almost 1/3 of the population of the school, which translates into losing 1/3 of the staffing budget.

They may want to get rid of the center kids now, but they will be singing a different tune when they lose 1/3 of their specials teachers, club sponsors, PE teachers, etc.

The things that make the center school desirable are a direct result of the extra 300-ish students who attend as part of the center. They have more of a budget to do these cool things and offer these great programs BECAUSE of the 300 or so students they have that the other feeder schools do not.

I wonder if those at the center schools realize what they might lose by if they get their wishes and have the centers moved from their schools.

Be careful what you wish for...

All of this may be true, but the calculation is butts in seats. It is clear that kids will be warehoused in trailers for decades and FCPS will not add permanent capacity.

Is the AAP center overcrowded? If so, can you identify feeder schools that will have critical mass for a Local Level IV? If so, those kids (and their parents and the staffing that comes with them) are gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At our base school, one year we had 8 kids, the next year a half dozen, then almost 30 kids, then back to around 10.

The 30 year was a fluke based on that weird testing a few years ago.

How do you run a local level IV with those kinds of numbers?

Also, if our center loses all the AA kids from the feeders they will lose almost 1/3 of the population of the school, which translates into losing 1/3 of the staffing budget.

They may want to get rid of the center kids now, but they will be singing a different tune when they lose 1/3 of their specials teachers, club sponsors, PE teachers, etc.

The things that make the center school desirable are a direct result of the extra 300-ish students who attend as part of the center. They have more of a budget to do these cool things and offer these great programs BECAUSE of the 300 or so students they have that the other feeder schools do not.

I wonder if those at the center schools realize what they might lose by if they get their wishes and have the centers moved from their schools.

Be careful what you wish for...

So you say. My kids have had both the AAP center and local school experience. IMO there aren't enough extras that can make 300 or so additional students desirable. So i'll keep wishing for FCPS to start phasing out these bloated and all too often unnecessary centers. Maybe some of the crazy parents that go with them will also stand down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's the beginning of the end of centers. There are several board members who don't like them. I could see them saying LLIV is the same and costs less.

It the same thing and does cost less. It's a sensible solution that's been a long time coming.

In some schools where there is critical mass, it is similar. In other schools where is not critical mass, it is not.

It used to be that this was true. Nowadays the AAP program has been expanded so much that the only difference between kids in that 85-95th %ile range who are in the program and those who aren't is that the former prepped better, appealed more and got expensive outside testing done. If you want to expand the program that much, fine, but you could just pull in those same kids from inside the school itself without resorting to expensive bussing and without overcrowding the center schools.

Size of base school plays a role--our school is very small and often has only 2 classes per grade: LLIV would turn into a "smart class" and a "dumb class" in each grade, not a good thing, IMO.

Well this is exactly how center schools play out. My DC goes to one of the larger centers and while there are far more AAP classes (in fact, they outnumber the Gen Ed classes), there is the underlying - and false - assumption that the AAP classes are "smart" and Gen Ed "dumb". In fact, center schools only magnify this insanity and further the false division of students. It would be far less egregious if there was only one AAP class per grade, and the rest were all Gen Ed. Kind of like real life.

In my son's case, he has two base school classmates that went with him to the Center. One Center-eligible classmate chose to stay at the base school. So he no longer goes to the Center school and has a Local Level IV class of four students?

If there were four kids eligible for LLIV, then it would even easier for them to be integrated into a Gen Ed class and given differentiated work by the teacher. These kids will not wither up and become comatose if they are in a mixed-level class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At our base school, one year we had 8 kids, the next year a half dozen, then almost 30 kids, then back to around 10.

The 30 year was a fluke based on that weird testing a few years ago.

How do you run a local level IV with those kinds of numbers?

Also, if our center loses all the AA kids from the feeders they will lose almost 1/3 of the population of the school, which translates into losing 1/3 of the staffing budget.

They may want to get rid of the center kids now, but they will be singing a different tune when they lose 1/3 of their specials teachers, club sponsors, PE teachers, etc.

The things that make the center school desirable are a direct result of the extra 300-ish students who attend as part of the center. They have more of a budget to do these cool things and offer these great programs BECAUSE of the 300 or so students they have that the other feeder schools do not.

I wonder if those at the center schools realize what they might lose by if they get their wishes and have the centers moved from their schools.

Be careful what you wish for...

So you say. My kids have had both the AAP center and local school experience. IMO there aren't enough extras that can make 300 or so additional students desirable. So i'll keep wishing for FCPS to start phasing out these bloated and all too often unnecessary centers. Maybe some of the crazy parents that go with them will also stand down.

+1,000,000
There is nothing desirable that an extra 300 kids can bring to a school, period. Our center's scheduling is run very tightly, rush rush rush, so that all the kids can zoom through their specials and the school can say they "offer" them. With 300 of those kids leaving, things would be so much better and there would be some breathing room for all. No amount of after school programs, clubs, specials, and PE teachers (??) etc. could possibly make me in favor of the bloated center model. I'm all for bringing back our relaxed community schools, as opposed to the current AAP factories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think this is where things have been heading for a long time.

Haycock should have done this long ago.

if this is from Dr. Garza , yeh , yeh, yeh! Great hire!

the current monster needs to be tamed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's the beginning of the end of centers. There are several board members who don't like them. I could see them saying LLIV is the same and costs less.

It the same thing and does cost less. It's a sensible solution that's been a long time coming.

In some schools where there is critical mass, it is similar. In other schools where is not critical mass, it is not.

It used to be that this was true. Nowadays the AAP program has been expanded so much that the only difference between kids in that 85-95th %ile range who are in the program and those who aren't is that the former prepped better, appealed more and got expensive outside testing done. If you want to expand the program that much, fine, but you could just pull in those same kids from inside the school itself without resorting to expensive bussing and without overcrowding the center schools.

Size of base school plays a role--our school is very small and often has only 2 classes per grade: LLIV would turn into a "smart class" and a "dumb class" in each grade, not a good thing, IMO.

Well this is exactly how center schools play out. My DC goes to one of the larger centers and while there are far more AAP classes (in fact, they outnumber the Gen Ed classes), there is the underlying - and false - assumption that the AAP classes are "smart" and Gen Ed "dumb". In fact, center schools only magnify this insanity and further the false division of students. It would be far less egregious if there was only one AAP class per grade, and the rest were all Gen Ed. Kind of like real life.

In my son's case, he has two base school classmates that went with him to the Center. One Center-eligible classmate chose to stay at the base school. So he no longer goes to the Center school and has a Local Level IV class of four students?

If there were four kids eligible for LLIV, then it would even easier for them to be integrated into a Gen Ed class and given differentiated work by the teacher. These kids will not wither up and become comatose if they are in a mixed-level class.

My DC was bullied in a 2nd grade class, including repeatedly thrown down into the dirt on the playground. So no, he did not wither up and become comatose, but I was not a fan of the school environment for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's the beginning of the end of centers. There are several board members who don't like them. I could see them saying LLIV is the same and costs less.

It the same thing and does cost less. It's a sensible solution that's been a long time coming.

In some schools where there is critical mass, it is similar. In other schools where is not critical mass, it is not.

It used to be that this was true. Nowadays the AAP program has been expanded so much that the only difference between kids in that 85-95th %ile range who are in the program and those who aren't is that the former prepped better, appealed more and got expensive outside testing done. If you want to expand the program that much, fine, but you could just pull in those same kids from inside the school itself without resorting to expensive bussing and without overcrowding the center schools.

Size of base school plays a role--our school is very small and often has only 2 classes per grade: LLIV would turn into a "smart class" and a "dumb class" in each grade, not a good thing, IMO.

Well this is exactly how center schools play out. My DC goes to one of the larger centers and while there are far more AAP classes (in fact, they outnumber the Gen Ed classes), there is the underlying - and false - assumption that the AAP classes are "smart" and Gen Ed "dumb". In fact, center schools only magnify this insanity and further the false division of students. It would be far less egregious if there was only one AAP class per grade, and the rest were all Gen Ed. Kind of like real life.

In my son's case, he has two base school classmates that went with him to the Center. One Center-eligible classmate chose to stay at the base school. So he no longer goes to the Center school and has a Local Level IV class of four students?

If there were four kids eligible for LLIV, then it would even easier for them to be integrated into a Gen Ed class and given differentiated work by the teacher. These kids will not wither up and become comatose if they are in a mixed-level class.

My DC was bullied in a 2nd grade class, including repeatedly thrown down into the dirt on the playground. So no, he did not wither up and become comatose, but I was not a fan of the school environment for him.

What does that have to do with differentiated learning? AAP/Gen Ed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's the beginning of the end of centers. There are several board members who don't like them. I could see them saying LLIV is the same and costs less.

It the same thing and does cost less. It's a sensible solution that's been a long time coming.

In some schools where there is critical mass, it is similar. In other schools where is not critical mass, it is not.

It used to be that this was true. Nowadays the AAP program has been expanded so much that the only difference between kids in that 85-95th %ile range who are in the program and those who aren't is that the former prepped better, appealed more and got expensive outside testing done. If you want to expand the program that much, fine, but you could just pull in those same kids from inside the school itself without resorting to expensive bussing and without overcrowding the center schools.

Size of base school plays a role--our school is very small and often has only 2 classes per grade: LLIV would turn into a "smart class" and a "dumb class" in each grade, not a good thing, IMO.

Well this is exactly how center schools play out. My DC goes to one of the larger centers and while there are far more AAP classes (in fact, they outnumber the Gen Ed classes), there is the underlying - and false - assumption that the AAP classes are "smart" and Gen Ed "dumb". In fact, center schools only magnify this insanity and further the false division of students. It would be far less egregious if there was only one AAP class per grade, and the rest were all Gen Ed. Kind of like real life.

In my son's case, he has two base school classmates that went with him to the Center. One Center-eligible classmate chose to stay at the base school. So he no longer goes to the Center school and has a Local Level IV class of four students?

If there were four kids eligible for LLIV, then it would even easier for them to be integrated into a Gen Ed class and given differentiated work by the teacher. These kids will not wither up and become comatose if they are in a mixed-level class.

My DC was bullied in a 2nd grade class, including repeatedly thrown down into the dirt on the playground. So no, he did not wither up and become comatose, but I was not a fan of the school environment for him.

So you're saying AAP kids don't bully? Because that would be completely incorrect in our case. Many of the center AAP kids are horrible to the GE kids, especially at recess. Mean kids can be found anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's the beginning of the end of centers. There are several board members who don't like them. I could see them saying LLIV is the same and costs less.

It the same thing and does cost less. It's a sensible solution that's been a long time coming.

In some schools where there is critical mass, it is similar. In other schools where is not critical mass, it is not.

It used to be that this was true. Nowadays the AAP program has been expanded so much that the only difference between kids in that 85-95th %ile range who are in the program and those who aren't is that the former prepped better, appealed more and got expensive outside testing done. If you want to expand the program that much, fine, but you could just pull in those same kids from inside the school itself without resorting to expensive bussing and without overcrowding the center schools.

Size of base school plays a role--our school is very small and often has only 2 classes per grade: LLIV would turn into a "smart class" and a "dumb class" in each grade, not a good thing, IMO.

Well this is exactly how center schools play out. My DC goes to one of the larger centers and while there are far more AAP classes (in fact, they outnumber the Gen Ed classes), there is the underlying - and false - assumption that the AAP classes are "smart" and Gen Ed "dumb". In fact, center schools only magnify this insanity and further the false division of students. It would be far less egregious if there was only one AAP class per grade, and the rest were all Gen Ed. Kind of like real life.

In my son's case, he has two base school classmates that went with him to the Center. One Center-eligible classmate chose to stay at the base school. So he no longer goes to the Center school and has a Local Level IV class of four students?

If there were four kids eligible for LLIV, then it would even easier for them to be integrated into a Gen Ed class and given differentiated work by the teacher. These kids will not wither up and become comatose if they are in a mixed-level class.

My DC was bullied in a 2nd grade class, including repeatedly thrown down into the dirt on the playground. So no, he did not wither up and become comatose, but I was not a fan of the school environment for him.

What does that have to do with differentiated learning? AAP/Gen Ed?

I think that if my son were with more academic peers -- as in he had more than one other kid that was at his academic level in his base school -- he might have been less isolated and subject to bullying. He came home in tears so many times due to how poorly he was treated at recess. In our case, he was thrilled to leave his base school to go to the Center as he escaped the tormenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's the beginning of the end of centers. There are several board members who don't like them. I could see them saying LLIV is the same and costs less.

It the same thing and does cost less. It's a sensible solution that's been a long time coming.

In some schools where there is critical mass, it is similar. In other schools where is not critical mass, it is not.

It used to be that this was true. Nowadays the AAP program has been expanded so much that the only difference between kids in that 85-95th %ile range who are in the program and those who aren't is that the former prepped better, appealed more and got expensive outside testing done. If you want to expand the program that much, fine, but you could just pull in those same kids from inside the school itself without resorting to expensive bussing and without overcrowding the center schools.

Size of base school plays a role--our school is very small and often has only 2 classes per grade: LLIV would turn into a "smart class" and a "dumb class" in each grade, not a good thing, IMO.

Well this is exactly how center schools play out. My DC goes to one of the larger centers and while there are far more AAP classes (in fact, they outnumber the Gen Ed classes), there is the underlying - and false - assumption that the AAP classes are "smart" and Gen Ed "dumb". In fact, center schools only magnify this insanity and further the false division of students. It would be far less egregious if there was only one AAP class per grade, and the rest were all Gen Ed. Kind of like real life.

In my son's case, he has two base school classmates that went with him to the Center. One Center-eligible classmate chose to stay at the base school. So he no longer goes to the Center school and has a Local Level IV class of four students?

If there were four kids eligible for LLIV, then it would even easier for them to be integrated into a Gen Ed class and given differentiated work by the teacher. These kids will not wither up and become comatose if they are in a mixed-level class.

My DC was bullied in a 2nd grade class, including repeatedly thrown down into the dirt on the playground. So no, he did not wither up and become comatose, but I was not a fan of the school environment for him.

So you're saying AAP kids don't bully? Because that would be completely incorrect in our case. Many of the center AAP kids are horrible to the GE kids, especially at recess. Mean kids can be found anywhere.

I am saying that just because it happens at your kid's school does not mean that it happens everywhere. The same holds true for what happens at my kid's school.

So please do not suggest what will work at your kid's school will necessarily work at my kid's school. The schools are so different and the county is so big. There is no one-size-fits-all answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's the beginning of the end of centers. There are several board members who don't like them. I could see them saying LLIV is the same and costs less.

It the same thing and does cost less. It's a sensible solution that's been a long time coming.

In some schools where there is critical mass, it is similar. In other schools where is not critical mass, it is not.

It used to be that this was true. Nowadays the AAP program has been expanded so much that the only difference between kids in that 85-95th %ile range who are in the program and those who aren't is that the former prepped better, appealed more and got expensive outside testing done. If you want to expand the program that much, fine, but you could just pull in those same kids from inside the school itself without resorting to expensive bussing and without overcrowding the center schools.

Size of base school plays a role--our school is very small and often has only 2 classes per grade: LLIV would turn into a "smart class" and a "dumb class" in each grade, not a good thing, IMO.

Well this is exactly how center schools play out. My DC goes to one of the larger centers and while there are far more AAP classes (in fact, they outnumber the Gen Ed classes), there is the underlying - and false - assumption that the AAP classes are "smart" and Gen Ed "dumb". In fact, center schools only magnify this insanity and further the false division of students. It would be far less egregious if there was only one AAP class per grade, and the rest were all Gen Ed. Kind of like real life.

In my son's case, he has two base school classmates that went with him to the Center. One Center-eligible classmate chose to stay at the base school. So he no longer goes to the Center school and has a Local Level IV class of four students?

If there were four kids eligible for LLIV, then it would even easier for them to be integrated into a Gen Ed class and given differentiated work by the teacher. These kids will not wither up and become comatose if they are in a mixed-level class.

My DC was bullied in a 2nd grade class, including repeatedly thrown down into the dirt on the playground. So no, he did not wither up and become comatose, but I was not a fan of the school environment for him.

What does that have to do with differentiated learning? AAP/Gen Ed?

I think that if my son were with more academic peers -- as in he had more than one other kid that was at his academic level in his base school -- he might have been less isolated and subject to bullying. He came home in tears so many times due to how poorly he was treated at recess. In our case, he was thrilled to leave his base school to go to the Center as he escaped the tormenting.

I'm sorry this happened to you, but you need to realize that kids get bullied for a wide variety of reasons: because they're short, because they're tall, because they're bright and because they're not too bright, because they have disabilities...
The answer is to work to stop the bullying, not to say that these kids need to be protected by sending them to a different facility. I realize advanced students need to be able to work at their own level (my kids are in AAP) but bullying is not a good reason--and FWIW, one of my kids has been bullied because he's 2E, by kids both in AAP and in GenEd.

[Anonymous]

My kid is not a bully and usually stands up for kids being bullied. He has been bullied himself, but no more no less than any other elementary kid. He is well liked and has a ice group of friends.

In my opinion as the mom of a center kid who is socially fine, one of the very best things about the center school format is that there ends of being a very high concentration of quirky, geeky, thinks out of the box, often twice exceptional kids. They have a peer group. They have friends. They are able to go to school with far less bullying than they face in other school and social situations. They have other kids who not only think at their level-because they are usually very smart-but they also have kids who struggle at their same social level.

And because they have a peer group, friends, and classmates who either have been outsoders too, or get used to kids like them because there are so many of them, they are able to develop at a pace and without torment so their EQ is able to catch up with their IQ.

Many of them end up well liked and well adjusted. They end up with circles of friends instead of none or just one. Heck, some of them even become class leaders by the end.

I have a nephew with Aspergers who is also highly gifted. He is so very similar to a lot of kids in my child's AAP program. I look at his public school experience compared to the kids in AAP who are like him and it makes me sad. I onlg wish he had access to an AAP type program in his state. I think it would have made all the difference in school for a kid like him because I see that happening every day with my kid's classmates.

AAP has many benefits to our entire school community. And this is one of them.

I hope they really tread carefully and do not throw the baby out with the bathwater when planning for the future of AAP.