FCPS Proposal to close down AAP Centers at Greenbriar West ES and Carson MS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should all be shut down. The idea of cherry picking in public schools is unfair to the taxpayers. If low achieving students are going to slow down high achieving student, then why should mid-level achieving students be slowed down by the same measure?

Schools can accommodate all levels of learning. If children need and want different or special instruction they should go private.

THIS x100.

While we are cutting things, let us start with eliminating all AP, IB, and honors classes, as AAP (including Levels II and III) are intended to ready students for more challenging AP/IB/honors coursework in high school. If we get rid of all AAP then we do not need the AP/IB/honors classes either. Let's just have a single English class to accommodate all levels of learning.

Faulty comparison. AP, IB and honors classes are open to ALL. And surprise, surprise, non-AAP kids do quite well in them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should all be shut down. The idea of cherry picking in public schools is unfair to the taxpayers. If low achieving students are going to slow down high achieving student, then why should mid-level achieving students be slowed down by the same measure?

Schools can accommodate all levels of learning. If children need and want different or special instruction they should go private.

THIS x100.

While we are cutting things, let us start with eliminating all AP, IB, and honors classes, as AAP (including Levels II and III) are intended to ready students for more challenging AP/IB/honors coursework in high school. If we get rid of all AAP then we do not need the AP/IB/honors classes either. Let's just have a single English class to accommodate all levels of learning.

Faulty comparison. AP, IB and honors classes are open to ALL. And surprise, surprise, non-AAP kids do quite well in them.

Absolutely. Kids who were never in AAP do great in honors, IB, and AP classes. I wonder who these parents are who actually think AAP is some kind of "prep program" for high school AP, etc. No doubt they have younger kids and have no idea how high school even works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should all be shut down. The idea of cherry picking in public schools is unfair to the taxpayers. If low achieving students are going to slow down high achieving student, then why should mid-level achieving students be slowed down by the same measure?

Schools can accommodate all levels of learning. If children need and want different or special instruction they should go private.

THIS x100.

While we are cutting things, let us start with eliminating all AP, IB, and honors classes, as AAP (including Levels II and III) are intended to ready students for more challenging AP/IB/honors coursework in high school. If we get rid of all AAP then we do not need the AP/IB/honors classes either. Let's just have a single English class to accommodate all levels of learning.

Faulty comparison. AP, IB and honors classes are open to ALL. And surprise, surprise, non-AAP kids do quite well in them.

And so do kids that have received Level II and Level III services. You do know that AAP is not just Level IV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder who these parents are who actually think AAP is some kind of "prep program" for high school AP, etc. No doubt they have younger kids and have no idea how high school even works.

Washington Post: Fairfax program seeks to close the ‘excellence gap’

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fairfax-program-seeks-to-close-the-excellence-gap/2014/04/10/21711a80-a2f0-11e3-84d4-e59b1709222c_story.html

To develop their talent, Young Scholars may get advanced work in the classroom or be pulled aside for extra attention. They attend summer camps, field trips and other special events. Many move on to formal GT classes — now called advanced academic services — which have their own acceptance criteria....

To improve the odds, Fairfax and other school systems have created a scaffold of supporting programs that include AP and International Baccalaureate prep for middle-schoolers, extra tutoring and guidance, free summer school, online courses and open enrollment for honors and AP classes, and college application help. But nationally, comprehensive programs that follow students from kindergarten to graduation are few and, even at their best, can’t always counter the powerful forces pulling on students.

Sosa didn’t face the worst of those problems. She had a stable, loving family, food on the table, a safe place to live and study. But as she piled on honors and AP courses in middle and high school, she came face-to-face with challenges shared by many peers. For starters, low-income meant little money for educational extras such as tutoring or prep courses. Sosa also lacked a key avenue of guidance as she navigated advanced courses and college prep: parents who had been there themselves.

And as she took her place in classes dominated by students who didn’t share her background, Sosa sometimes felt conspicuously out of place. Case in point: one AP class in which students were asked to introduce themselves by talking about their parents’ jobs. “I always hate that question,” Sosa says. “Not that I’m embarrassed, but I just know I’m going to be different from everyone else.” She stuck it out and even doubled down, working harder than ever. “I didn’t want to be the dumb, poor kid,” she says.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder who these parents are who actually think AAP is some kind of "prep program" for high school AP, etc. No doubt they have younger kids and have no idea how high school even works.

Washington Post: Fairfax program seeks to close the ‘excellence gap’

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fairfax-program-seeks-to-close-the-excellence-gap/2014/04/10/21711a80-a2f0-11e3-84d4-e59b1709222c_story.html

To develop their talent, Young Scholars may get advanced work in the classroom or be pulled aside for extra attention. They attend summer camps, field trips and other special events. Many move on to formal GT classes — now called advanced academic services — which have their own acceptance criteria....

To improve the odds, Fairfax and other school systems have created a scaffold of supporting programs that include AP and International Baccalaureate prep for middle-schoolers, extra tutoring and guidance, free summer school, online courses and open enrollment for honors and AP classes, and college application help. But nationally, comprehensive programs that follow students from kindergarten to graduation are few and, even at their best, can’t always counter the powerful forces pulling on students.

Sosa didn’t face the worst of those problems. She had a stable, loving family, food on the table, a safe place to live and study. But as she piled on honors and AP courses in middle and high school, she came face-to-face with challenges shared by many peers. For starters, low-income meant little money for educational extras such as tutoring or prep courses. Sosa also lacked a key avenue of guidance as she navigated advanced courses and college prep: parents who had been there themselves.

And as she took her place in classes dominated by students who didn’t share her background, Sosa sometimes felt conspicuously out of place. Case in point: one AP class in which students were asked to introduce themselves by talking about their parents’ jobs. “I always hate that question,” Sosa says. “Not that I’m embarrassed, but I just know I’m going to be different from everyone else.” She stuck it out and even doubled down, working harder than ever. “I didn’t want to be the dumb, poor kid,” she says.

I'm not sure what your point is in quoting the above article. This girl was part of the Young Scholars program. She wasn't the typical, hot-housed, privileged Fairfax County AAP student. Those students (latter group) are the ones being discussed on this forum and they are the kids who don't need any type of AAP program to succeed in advanced-level high school courses. To think that the average FxCo. child won't excel in high school because they weren't an AAP student is ludicrous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder who these parents are who actually think AAP is some kind of "prep program" for high school AP, etc. No doubt they have younger kids and have no idea how high school even works.

Washington Post: Fairfax program seeks to close the ‘excellence gap’

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fairfax-program-seeks-to-close-the-excellence-gap/2014/04/10/21711a80-a2f0-11e3-84d4-e59b1709222c_story.html

To develop their talent, Young Scholars may get advanced work in the classroom or be pulled aside for extra attention. They attend summer camps, field trips and other special events. Many move on to formal GT classes — now called advanced academic services — which have their own acceptance criteria....

To improve the odds, Fairfax and other school systems have created a scaffold of supporting programs that include AP and International Baccalaureate prep for middle-schoolers, extra tutoring and guidance, free summer school, online courses and open enrollment for honors and AP classes, and college application help. But nationally, comprehensive programs that follow students from kindergarten to graduation are few and, even at their best, can’t always counter the powerful forces pulling on students.

Sosa didn’t face the worst of those problems. She had a stable, loving family, food on the table, a safe place to live and study. But as she piled on honors and AP courses in middle and high school, she came face-to-face with challenges shared by many peers. For starters, low-income meant little money for educational extras such as tutoring or prep courses. Sosa also lacked a key avenue of guidance as she navigated advanced courses and college prep: parents who had been there themselves.

And as she took her place in classes dominated by students who didn’t share her background, Sosa sometimes felt conspicuously out of place. Case in point: one AP class in which students were asked to introduce themselves by talking about their parents’ jobs. “I always hate that question,” Sosa says. “Not that I’m embarrassed, but I just know I’m going to be different from everyone else.” She stuck it out and even doubled down, working harder than ever. “I didn’t want to be the dumb, poor kid,” she says.

I'm not sure what your point is in quoting the above article. This girl was part of the Young Scholars program. She wasn't the typical, hot-housed, privileged Fairfax County AAP student. Those students (latter group) are the ones being discussed on this forum and they are the kids who don't need any type of AAP program to succeed in advanced-level high school courses. To think that the average FxCo. child won't excel in high school because they weren't an AAP student is ludicrous.

Because Young Scholars often receive AAP services including but not limited to Level II, Level III and Level IV services.

The last time I checked, Level II and Level III services are part of the AAP continuum.

This forum is titled Advanced Academic Programs (AAP). It is not titled the typical, hot-housed, privileged Fairfax County AAP student forum.

What are Level II and Level III services? Let's check the FCPS website:

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/level2.shtml

Level II Services: Differentiated Services are offered to students who have specific academic strengths. The Advanced Academic resource teacher collaborates with classroom teachers to support differentiated instruction and to provide additional challenges within the general education program. Middle school students who take one or two Honors classes are receiving Level II services.

Holy moly look at that! Middle school students -- you know, those students that are NOT in AAP Centers -- who take ONE or TWO Honors classes are receiving -- wait for it -- LEVEL II Services.


So let's look at Level III services -- back to the FCPS website:

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/level3.shtml

Level III Services: The Middle School Honors program offers students who demonstrate previous high achievement in specific areas of academic strength the opportunity to experience and extended POS at greater levels of depth and complexity. All sixth grade students are considered for Honors classes. Students may qualify for up to three Honors classes.

So Level III services are those middle school students who take THREE honors classes. Interesting.

So why would a student want to take honors classes anyway? Time to look at the website again:

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/honors.shtml

Middle School Honors - Honors classes provide opportunities to build on individual academic strengths, develop critical and creative thinking skills, and prepare students for advanced coursework in high school, i.e. Advanced Placement, International Baccalaureate, and/or Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology.



So there you go -- Level II and Level III services at the middle school level prepare students for advanced coursework in high school.

[Anonymous]

Middle School Honors - Honors classes provide opportunities to build on individual academic strengths, develop critical and creative thinking skills, and prepare students for advanced coursework in high school, i.e. Advanced Placement, International Baccalaureate, and/or Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology.


when I see this it makes a lot of sense. 70 kids from Rachel Carson, the big AAP Center, got into TJ this year. And from Franklin MS - 3. No, AAP doesn't make any difference at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder who these parents are who actually think AAP is some kind of "prep program" for high school AP, etc. No doubt they have younger kids and have no idea how high school even works.

Washington Post: Fairfax program seeks to close the ‘excellence gap’

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fairfax-program-seeks-to-close-the-excellence-gap/2014/04/10/21711a80-a2f0-11e3-84d4-e59b1709222c_story.html

To develop their talent, Young Scholars may get advanced work in the classroom or be pulled aside for extra attention. They attend summer camps, field trips and other special events. Many move on to formal GT classes — now called advanced academic services — which have their own acceptance criteria....

To improve the odds, Fairfax and other school systems have created a scaffold of supporting programs that include AP and International Baccalaureate prep for middle-schoolers, extra tutoring and guidance, free summer school, online courses and open enrollment for honors and AP classes, and college application help. But nationally, comprehensive programs that follow students from kindergarten to graduation are few and, even at their best, can’t always counter the powerful forces pulling on students.

Sosa didn’t face the worst of those problems. She had a stable, loving family, food on the table, a safe place to live and study. But as she piled on honors and AP courses in middle and high school, she came face-to-face with challenges shared by many peers. For starters, low-income meant little money for educational extras such as tutoring or prep courses. Sosa also lacked a key avenue of guidance as she navigated advanced courses and college prep: parents who had been there themselves.

And as she took her place in classes dominated by students who didn’t share her background, Sosa sometimes felt conspicuously out of place. Case in point: one AP class in which students were asked to introduce themselves by talking about their parents’ jobs. “I always hate that question,” Sosa says. “Not that I’m embarrassed, but I just know I’m going to be different from everyone else.” She stuck it out and even doubled down, working harder than ever. “I didn’t want to be the dumb, poor kid,” she says.

I'm not sure what your point is in quoting the above article. This girl was part of the Young Scholars program. She wasn't the typical, hot-housed, privileged Fairfax County AAP student. Those students (latter group) are the ones being discussed on this forum and they are the kids who don't need any type of AAP program to succeed in advanced-level high school courses. To think that the average FxCo. child won't excel in high school because they weren't an AAP student is ludicrous.

Depends on what you mean by "excel."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder who these parents are who actually think AAP is some kind of "prep program" for high school AP, etc. No doubt they have younger kids and have no idea how high school even works.

Washington Post: Fairfax program seeks to close the ‘excellence gap’

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fairfax-program-seeks-to-close-the-excellence-gap/2014/04/10/21711a80-a2f0-11e3-84d4-e59b1709222c_story.html

To develop their talent, Young Scholars may get advanced work in the classroom or be pulled aside for extra attention. They attend summer camps, field trips and other special events. Many move on to formal GT classes — now called advanced academic services — which have their own acceptance criteria....

To improve the odds, Fairfax and other school systems have created a scaffold of supporting programs that include AP and International Baccalaureate prep for middle-schoolers, extra tutoring and guidance, free summer school, online courses and open enrollment for honors and AP classes, and college application help. But nationally, comprehensive programs that follow students from kindergarten to graduation are few and, even at their best, can’t always counter the powerful forces pulling on students.

Sosa didn’t face the worst of those problems. She had a stable, loving family, food on the table, a safe place to live and study. But as she piled on honors and AP courses in middle and high school, she came face-to-face with challenges shared by many peers. For starters, low-income meant little money for educational extras such as tutoring or prep courses. Sosa also lacked a key avenue of guidance as she navigated advanced courses and college prep: parents who had been there themselves.

And as she took her place in classes dominated by students who didn’t share her background, Sosa sometimes felt conspicuously out of place. Case in point: one AP class in which students were asked to introduce themselves by talking about their parents’ jobs. “I always hate that question,” Sosa says. “Not that I’m embarrassed, but I just know I’m going to be different from everyone else.” She stuck it out and even doubled down, working harder than ever. “I didn’t want to be the dumb, poor kid,” she says.

I'm not sure what your point is in quoting the above article. This girl was part of the Young Scholars program. She wasn't the typical, hot-housed, privileged Fairfax County AAP student. Those students (latter group) are the ones being discussed on this forum and they are the kids who don't need any type of AAP program to succeed in advanced-level high school courses. To think that the average FxCo. child won't excel in high school because they weren't an AAP student is ludicrous.

Because Young Scholars often receive AAP services including but not limited to Level II, Level III and Level IV services.

The last time I checked, Level II and Level III services are part of the AAP continuum.

This forum is titled Advanced Academic Programs (AAP). It is not titled the typical, hot-housed, privileged Fairfax County AAP student forum.

What are Level II and Level III services? Let's check the FCPS website:

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/level2.shtml

Level II Services: Differentiated Services are offered to students who have specific academic strengths. The Advanced Academic resource teacher collaborates with classroom teachers to support differentiated instruction and to provide additional challenges within the general education program. Middle school students who take one or two Honors classes are receiving Level II services.

Holy moly look at that! Middle school students -- you know, those students that are NOT in AAP Centers -- who take ONE or TWO Honors classes are receiving -- wait for it -- LEVEL II Services.


So let's look at Level III services -- back to the FCPS website:

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/level3.shtml

Level III Services: The Middle School Honors program offers students who demonstrate previous high achievement in specific areas of academic strength the opportunity to experience and extended POS at greater levels of depth and complexity. All sixth grade students are considered for Honors classes. Students may qualify for up to three Honors classes.

So Level III services are those middle school students who take THREE honors classes. Interesting.

So why would a student want to take honors classes anyway? Time to look at the website again:

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/honors.shtml

Middle School Honors - Honors classes provide opportunities to build on individual academic strengths, develop critical and creative thinking skills, and prepare students for advanced coursework in high school, i.e. Advanced Placement, International Baccalaureate, and/or Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology.



So there you go -- Level II and Level III services at the middle school level prepare students for advanced coursework in high school.

This thread appears to be discussing closing down centers - i.e. Level IV. If we're now discussing middle school honors classes, you know, those open to all, and how they prepare kids for high school honors/AP/IB, then I agree. They are very worthwhile. Elementary school segregated Level IV centers? No.

[Anonymous]

PP, I think you need to just speak for your own school.

In our part of the county the AAP kids are neither hot housed or priveleged. They are just normal middle class kids just like every kid in our neighborhood with normal involved and loving parents.

Your anger is astonishing. I am sorry that you feel such rage against a bunch of kids. It must be a challenge to live like that and have AAP consume your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, I think you need to just speak for your own school.

In our part of the county the AAP kids are neither hot housed or priveleged. They are just normal middle class kids just like every kid in our neighborhood with normal involved and loving parents.

Your anger is astonishing. I am sorry that you feel such rage against a bunch of kids. It must be a challenge to live like that and have AAP consume your life.

I don't have any rage against the kids themselves - merely the process that is currently in place. And if you're the PP who just listed, in a very snarky way, the Level I, II, and III information, then it would seem you are the one with astonishing anger issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, I think you need to just speak for your own school.

In our part of the county the AAP kids are neither hot housed or priveleged. They are just normal middle class kids just like every kid in our neighborhood with normal involved and loving parents.

Your anger is astonishing. I am sorry that you feel such rage against a bunch of kids. It must be a challenge to live like that and have AAP consume your life.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, I think you need to just speak for your own school.

In our part of the county the AAP kids are neither hot housed or priveleged. They are just normal middle class kids just like every kid in our neighborhood with normal involved and loving parents.

Your anger is astonishing. I am sorry that you feel such rage against a bunch of kids. It must be a challenge to live like that and have AAP consume your life.

I don't have any rage against the kids themselves - merely the process that is currently in place. And if you're the PP who just listed, in a very snarky way, the Level I, II, and III information, then it would seem you are the one with astonishing anger issues.

You rage might be towards the system but it certainly manifests itself as being directed towards a bunch of elementary school kids, 90% + of whom you have never met.

If you are the person I responded too and who has posted repeatedly throughout this thread, you might want to go back and read your posts. Or show them to your spouse or your AAP neighbor's parent.

I think anyone who looks at your posts independently and non emotionally will agree that are speaking horribly about a bunch of kids and that it seems like you have an unhealthy and toxic attitude about kids in AAP.

I have not posted anything here about AAP that I would be ashamed to say to any other parent, adult or child. Can you say the same? Would you be comfortable going up to your neighbors and say in front of all of them and thir children, word for word and verbatum insults what you post here, especially the things you said about AAP kids? I doubt it.

And to answer your question I am not the person who posted about levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, I think you need to just speak for your own school.

In our part of the county the AAP kids are neither hot housed or priveleged. They are just normal middle class kids just like every kid in our neighborhood with normal involved and loving parents.

Your anger is astonishing. I am sorry that you feel such rage against a bunch of kids. It must be a challenge to live like that and have AAP consume your life.

+1

+1. I cannot believe the amount of time and energy some of these AAP haters put into the AAP board. No wonder their kids feel bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, I think you need to just speak for your own school.

In our part of the county the AAP kids are neither hot housed or priveleged. They are just normal middle class kids just like every kid in our neighborhood with normal involved and loving parents.

Your anger is astonishing. I am sorry that you feel such rage against a bunch of kids. It must be a challenge to live like that and have AAP consume your life.

I don't have any rage against the kids themselves - merely the process that is currently in place. And if you're the PP who just listed, in a very snarky way, the Level I, II, and III information, then it would seem you are the one with astonishing anger issues.

You rage might be towards the system but it certainly manifests itself as being directed towards a bunch of elementary school kids, 90% + of whom you have never met.

If you are the person I responded too and who has posted repeatedly throughout this thread, you might want to go back and read your posts. Or show them to your spouse or your AAP neighbor's parent.

I think anyone who looks at your posts independently and non emotionally will agree that are speaking horribly about a bunch of kids and that it seems like you have an unhealthy and toxic attitude about kids in AAP.

I have not posted anything here about AAP that I would be ashamed to say to any other parent, adult or child. Can you say the same? Would you be comfortable going up to your neighbors and say in front of all of them and thir children, word for word and verbatum insults what you post here, especially the things you said about AAP kids? I doubt it.

And to answer your question I am not the person who posted about levels.

What are you talking about? I am amazed that you actually think there is only one person posting things you disagree with. Seriously? You honestly believe that all those posts were written by one person, or that it's impossible that others would feel the same way? I haven't written one word here that I would be ashamed of saying in front of any AAP parent, even my neighbors and friends. And FYI, my spouse feels the same way.