Black preschoolers more likely to face suspension

[Anonymous]

I agree with the last two posters. To all of the above that posted about whether the behavior was different, if you have different outcomes based on race, you're not going to get the same description of the problem or a way to objectively quantify that data.

I read the study and it doesn't tell you whether or not they took SES into consideration, but it doesn't matter if they did or not. These aren't high school kids or even middle school kids bringing weapons or selling drugs, these are four.year.olds. Regardless of the circumstances, it is NEVER developmentally appropriate to suspend a four year old EVER and suspension doesn't accomplish anything. The study also tells you that AA children are less likely to have qualified and experienced teachers, less likely to have access to higher level class. Honestly the list goes on and on and if you are constantly questioning all the copious amounts of research that all point to the same thing, making rude and dismissive comments on all of it and then are whiny when someone questions whether you might be biased and racist, well it might be because you are and it's obvious to all of us. And I say this as a white person.

So please move out of PGCPS or go back to subgroup for the county you live in now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the last two posters. To all of the above that posted about whether the behavior was different, if you have different outcomes based on race, you're not going to get the same description of the problem or a way to objectively quantify that data.

I read the study and it doesn't tell you whether or not they took SES into consideration, but it doesn't matter if they did or not. These aren't high school kids or even middle school kids bringing weapons or selling drugs, these are four.year.olds. Regardless of the circumstances, it is NEVER developmentally appropriate to suspend a four year old EVER and suspension doesn't accomplish anything. The study also tells you that AA children are less likely to have qualified and experienced teachers, less likely to have access to higher level class. Honestly the list goes on and on and if you are constantly questioning all the copious amounts of research that all point to the same thing, making rude and dismissive comments on all of it and then are whiny when someone questions whether you might be biased and racist, well it might be because you are and it's obvious to all of us. And I say this as a white person.

So please move out of PGCPS or go back to subgroup for the county you live in now.

Really? Prove it.

Developmentally, it might be appropriate for a 4 yr old to need a very small group environment or one on one attention. Not all children at the age of 4 are going to be able to adapt to a large group environment. A 4 yr old can be distracting and hurtful to other children and yes, removing the child accomplishes quite a bit.

Medicaid needs to cover testing, ADD therapy and medication. This will help out tons of AA boys heading to elementary school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this was not a racial issue, then the occurrence of suspensions would be proportional to to the number of black kids attending public schools. Its not. Similar to the disproportionate number of black males in prison. We are only 18% of the population. Something isn't right.

Asians get suspended at half the rate of whites. Clearly teachers must be targeting whites, no other explanation right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is the link to the article: http://news.yahoo.com/black-preschoolers-more-likely-face-suspension-070710508.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — Black students are more likely to be suspended from U.S. public schools — even as tiny preschoolers.

The racial disparities in American education, from access to high-level classes and experienced teachers to discipline, were highlighted in a report released Friday by the Education Department's civil rights arm.

The suspensions — and disparities — begin at the earliest grades.

Black children represent about 18 percent of children in preschool programs in schools, but they make up almost half of the preschoolers suspended more than once, the report said. Six percent of the nation's districts with preschools reported suspending at least one preschool child.

[ Edited to comply with copyright laws. ]

Considering just 50 years ago blacks gained the right to vote this isn't surprising.

[Anonymous]

Here is an example of a black Pre-Schooler (3 years) being expelled for saying one curse word. This is not in prince georges county but does support the original discussion.

http://news4sanantonio.com//news/features/featured/stories/3yearold-kicked-out-daycare-saying-curse-word-3638.shtml

[Anonymous]

What about the fact that black children are disproportionately hit and reprimanded (by their parents) at my neighborhood grocery store?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this was not a racial issue, then the occurrence of suspensions would be proportional to to the number of black kids attending public schools. Its not. Similar to the disproportionate number of black males in prison. We are only 18% of the population. Something isn't right.

Asians get suspended at half the rate of whites. Clearly teachers must be targeting whites, no other explanation right?

Sufficiently sophisticated racism is indistinguishable from a complete lack of racism. That is what is so insidious about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this was not a racial issue, then the occurrence of suspensions would be proportional to to the number of black kids attending public schools. Its not. Similar to the disproportionate number of black males in prison. We are only 18% of the population. Something isn't right.

Asians get suspended at half the rate of whites. Clearly teachers must be targeting whites, no other explanation right?

Sufficiently sophisticated racism is indistinguishable from a complete lack of racism. That is what is so insidious about it.

Yes, it must be a sophisticated plot by all teachers in the US. I blame the Illuminati.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this was not a racial issue, then the occurrence of suspensions would be proportional to to the number of black kids attending public schools. Its not. Similar to the disproportionate number of black males in prison. We are only 18% of the population. Something isn't right.

Asians get suspended at half the rate of whites. Clearly teachers must be targeting whites, no other explanation right?

Sufficiently sophisticated racism is indistinguishable from a complete lack of racism. That is what is so insidious about it.

Yes, it must be a sophisticated plot by all teachers in the US. I blame the Illuminati.

There doesn't have to be a plot for a bunch of factors to combine to create a difference in treatment. I teach (middle school, not preschoolers). I'm white. One thing that I fret about is that a good number of my white male students come in with an ADHD diagnosis and a 504 or IEP. Very very few of my black students do. I teach at a school that has close to an 80% black population and is a shade under 50% FARMS. I have one black male with a 504 for ADHD and many white males with a 504 or IEP based on that diagnosis. I find it very hard to imagine that ADHD occurs that disproportionately in white males vs. black males. I think it gets diagnosed a lot more frequently in white males (at least at my school) and this may have a lot to do with SES or something that isn't overtly racist. Here's the problem though; I've watched several colleagues respond quite differently to the same behavior (loudness, getting out of his seat, inattentiveness) from the child with a diagnosis vs. a child without a diagnosis. So the kid who acts like his chair is on fire and keeps getting up and being mildly disruptive gets either a "maybe he forgot his meds today" or a "being disrespectful/disruptive" reaction that seems to correspond with whether the child has a diagnosis or not. That means the kid without a diagnosis ends up with a far greater paper trail of low level disciplinary referrals. I don't think this is because I have horribly racist colleagues. I have wonderful colleagues who by and large are good teachers who really care about the kids. But because there is this great disparity in who comes in with paperwork saying "there's a reason I act like this, here are some accommodations that help me" it (to my eyes) results in a great disparity in how the same behaviors are treated in different students. Kids tend to meet the expectations we have for them and if a kid acquires the label "difficult" or "disruptive" or "disrespectful" then pretty soon they'll start acting the part. That doesn't set a kid up for success. I'm not a special ed teacher or a psychologist, and maybe kids meet the expectations of the label "ADHD" as well, but in my experience the school system tends to be more sympathetic and flexible about that. I try to ask for a lot of the kids who come in with these labels because they are often good, bright kids who do pretty darn well on most days with a little flexibility and positive feedback. On a side rant, I think we do a real disservice to all our kids, but especially boys, by reducing or cutting out recess entirely. So many "discipline problems" seem to magically do better if they have time to move and get rid of energy. My two cents.

Arguing that there isn't an organized conspiracy is really a strawman. No one is saying that school faculty and admins sit around on professional development days discussing how they can target black males. Just because that isn't happening doesn't mean there are tons of other factors (many of which are systemic) that don't combine to produce a negative effect.

TL;DR version: lack of conspiracy does not mean the system doesn't treat black male students punitively in a disproportionate way