Black preschoolers more likely to face suspension

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wonderful that these stats are available - now what are black parents going to do with this information?
Are mommy and daddy going to interpret this data as "proof" that nothing is little Johnny's fault and just sit back blaming the system for all his setbacks and situations or are mommy and daddy going to interpret this data as a potential pitfall and put forth the extra effort to ensure that in addition to ensuring little Johnny's academics and behavior is on point that they, too, are going to have to take on a much more integral role in little Johnny's life and not just leave it up to the teachers to keep him involved and out of trouble?

Just wondering.

If black children are suspended more than white children for the same behaviors, then the issue goes beyond assigning fault. I think most black parents (like most parents generally) do work with their children on academic and behavioral issues. But inequities, relating to the treatment of behavior, are an additional battle that may not be solvable by just ensuring that academics and behavior are on point. Especially when one considers zero-tolerance policies. Also, considering that some children get "caught" and others displaying the same behavior do not. Don't just tell Johnny to be good. Tell Johnny that self-control is very important, that things aren't always fair in school, and that he needs to learn to navigate the system despite the unfairness. And teach him how to navigate it.


One more thing. Being involved in your child's education is crucial. But that in no way absolves teachers and administrators of any responsibility to make the classroom an accessible, safe and welcoming environment for all.

I have an ADHD white 10- year old son and this is the story of our month. He is really loud, and he has gotten in a lot of trouble recently. However, until recently we have been fortunate and he hasn't had major disciplinary actions. He isn't violent or very aggressive so I think that has helped. i also think it helps that he is very social and bonds well with his teachers. Also, we aren't in denial about his behavior and are very open to interventions. Dealing with a kid like my son as a single mom would be so hard. We are at a racially mixed school, and my feeling is that staff and administrators strive to be fair.

The two kids in our school who showed really frightening behavior since preschool were both white boys with undiagnozed severe behavior problems (and loving attentive and totally in denial parents).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wonderful that these stats are available - now what are black parents going to do with this information?
Are mommy and daddy going to interpret this data as "proof" that nothing is little Johnny's fault and just sit back blaming the system for all his setbacks and situations or are mommy and daddy going to interpret this data as a potential pitfall and put forth the extra effort to ensure that in addition to ensuring little Johnny's academics and behavior is on point that they, too, are going to have to take on a much more integral role in little Johnny's life and not just leave it up to the teachers to keep him involved and out of trouble?

Just wondering.

You are going to have a really hard time when you are sent back to the caves that you and your genetically mutated, melanin-deficient people crawled out of. But you might as well enjoy the top while you are there- it's going to be hard fall down.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

[Anonymous]

That's what happens when you live under a system of racisim/white supremecy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wonderful that these stats are available - now what are black parents going to do with this information?
Are mommy and daddy going to interpret this data as "proof" that nothing is little Johnny's fault and just sit back blaming the system for all his setbacks and situations or are mommy and daddy going to interpret this data as a potential pitfall and put forth the extra effort to ensure that in addition to ensuring little Johnny's academics and behavior is on point that they, too, are going to have to take on a much more integral role in little Johnny's life and not just leave it up to the teachers to keep him involved and out of trouble?

Just wondering.

You are going to have a really hard time when you are sent back to the caves that you and your genetically mutated, melanin-deficient people crawled out of. But you might as well enjoy the top while you are there- it's going to be hard fall down.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

And you went out of your way to put your own ignorance and prejudice on display because...?

[Anonymous]

This is a really shitty study as far as I can see. The vital question isn't addressed: Are they being suspended more often for the SAME behavior as other races or not?

It's not clear if these kids are either being unfairly punished or are actually behaving more poorly.

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/crdc-discipline-snapshot.pdf

PS- I do think it's interesting that hispanic students, who I believe often come from the same SES as blacks, are disciplined less often.

[Anonymous]

Yep -- we're not post-racial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If it is indeed a racial issue I would hesitate to presume its a simple matter of the little black boy being singled out by the prejudiced white teacher as the sole antagonist/instigator in her classroom and disciplined more often and more harshly as a result.
By and large, school districts with high percentages of black children are taught predominantly by black teachers and these schools also have a high percentage of black administrators - so where's the racist element to explain these disproportionate numbers in disciplinary action?
Could it be that perhaps the actual reason for the greater likelihood of suspensions for black students is not so much a racial issue in schools but more so a cultural issue in schools? - i.e. black teachers/administrators are more likely to kick a kid out of class than put him in time out.

Just wondering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a really shitty study as far as I can see. The vital question isn't addressed: Are they being suspended more often for the SAME behavior as other races or not?

It's not clear if these kids are either being unfairly punished or are actually behaving more poorly.

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/crdc-discipline-snapshot.pdf

PS- I do think it's interesting that hispanic students, who I believe often come from the same SES as blacks, are disciplined less often.

Did you really just type this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a really shitty study as far as I can see. The vital question isn't addressed: Are they being suspended more often for the SAME behavior as other races or not?

It's not clear if these kids are either being unfairly punished or are actually behaving more poorly.

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/crdc-discipline-snapshot.pdf

PS- I do think it's interesting that hispanic students, who I believe often come from the same SES as blacks, are disciplined less often.

Did you really just type this?

Yes, because it's true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Weekly_Earnings.png

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If it is indeed a racial issue I would hesitate to presume its a simple matter of the little black boy being singled out by the prejudiced white teacher as the sole antagonist/instigator in her classroom and disciplined more often and more harshly as a result.
By and large, school districts with high percentages of black children are taught predominantly by black teachers and these schools also have a high percentage of black administrators - so where's the racist element to explain these disproportionate numbers in disciplinary action?
Could it be that perhaps the actual reason for the greater likelihood of suspensions for black students is not so much a racial issue in schools but more so a cultural issue in schools? - i.e. black teachers/administrators are more likely to kick a kid out of class than put him in time out.

Just wondering.

Um, no. First, each of my children have attended two different PG elementary schools. All four of those public schools have mostly white teachers and staff. All but one school has a majority black student body.

Second, even if there are mostly black teachers educating mostly black children, it can still be a racial issue if the principal and/or the school system has a policy that has inequitable racial impact.

The county at one time was accused of developing more IEPs with an emotional disturbance coding for misbehaving, special needs black boys, than similar white boys. Not all behavioral issues, even severe ones, are an indication of emoional disturbance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Preschoolers and suspension in the same sentance. What is wrong with this world. Let me guess they are boys.

Schools can't even agree on "acceptable beharior". I would really like to know what they did to be suspended in preschool.

I worked at an affluent mostly white preschool, before I worked to collect data for the District where I did exit interviews with programs who had to expel preschoolers. NO ONE wants to expel preschoolers, it has nothing to do with punishment- it is about safety and proper placement. If a child runs, strikes children and teachers, they cannot be maintained in most centers (seen it happen across SES lines.) Typically these behaviors stem from an un-diagnosed(or diagnosed but in denial) condition, and typically the right placement or referral are in place when the worst happens and a child must leave a center.

in the two years I ran expulsion data, every child had extenuating circumstances at home and usually a behavioral issue the required early intervention...

In case of preschool suspensions, they are last ditch efforts to avoid expulsion. But it means the program cannot deal with the behaviors the child is exhibiting for whatever reason.

I understand your situation. My son was struck/bit/etc by a child in preschool. It was reported to me and the child was a problem. His mom was being treated for brain cancer. . Um.... NO I did not want him expelled. What is wrong with people. Preschool is where he got early intervention. He was not going to get it at home.It is preschool. My child learned empathy.

I know some kids have serious emotional disabilities (my SIL is an ED teacher) but these children should not be expelled they need to be put in programs for kids with emotional disabilities. When their emotional needs are being met they become contibuting members of a classroom.

I do not understand explusion. I do understand finding a better fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
And you went out of your way to put your own ignorance and prejudice on display because...?

There is nothing ignorant or prejudice about the truth. If you melanin-deficient people spent less time claiming other peoples histories and more time studying your own- you would know that you come from a mutation.


But someone let you out of your caves and gave you a chance to be civilized- and what do you do? You go from place to place raping, pillaging, killing innocent people, spreading diseases, causing wars all while playing so innocent as you erase history and rewrite to show you in a favorable light.

Then on top of it- you have the nerve to label people of color as savages- when really they are mostly reacting to how they’ve been treated. So we have a group of people who saw nothing wrong with raping women, hanging men from trees and cutting off their genitals, burning down prosperous towns (see: black wall street), handing out blankets with smallpox, and all other sorts of nonsense- being so self-righteous because they saw some blacks with baggy pants and loud voices.

You are joke.
You are insecure.
And the veil of secrecy and lies has been lifted.
Get over yourselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Preschoolers and suspension in the same sentance. What is wrong with this world. Let me guess they are boys.

Schools can't even agree on "acceptable beharior". I would really like to know what they did to be suspended in preschool.

I worked at an affluent mostly white preschool, before I worked to collect data for the District where I did exit interviews with programs who had to expel preschoolers. NO ONE wants to expel preschoolers, it has nothing to do with punishment- it is about safety and proper placement. If a child runs, strikes children and teachers, they cannot be maintained in most centers (seen it happen across SES lines.) Typically these behaviors stem from an un-diagnosed(or diagnosed but in denial) condition, and typically the right placement or referral are in place when the worst happens and a child must leave a center.

in the two years I ran expulsion data, every child had extenuating circumstances at home and usually a behavioral issue the required early intervention...

In case of preschool suspensions, they are last ditch efforts to avoid expulsion. But it means the program cannot deal with the behaviors the child is exhibiting for whatever reason.

I understand your situation. My son was struck/bit/etc by a child in preschool. It was reported to me and the child was a problem. His mom was being treated for brain cancer. . Um.... NO I did not want him expelled. What is wrong with people. Preschool is where he got early intervention. He was not going to get it at home.It is preschool. My child learned empathy.

I know some kids have serious emotional disabilities (my SIL is an ED teacher) but these children should not be expelled they need to be put in programs for kids with emotional disabilities. When their emotional needs are being met they become contibuting members of a classroom.

I do not understand explusion. I do understand finding a better fit.

I am the poster you are quoting- in the end finding a better fit was always what happened, in fact they were never labeled "expulsions" at worst it was said "the child could not be maintained in the classroom" and in terms of violence towards others it went beyond simple hitting or biting- worst case was knocking over an entire book shelf unto students, or throwing a small table! I also think private schools and daycare centers end up caving to pressure from board members about safety and in our litigious society, programs cut their loses before someone gets hurt (including the child with behavior issues, which I have witnessed some being a danger to themselves...very sad)

I find this study interesting, my only experience is with preschool aged children and anecdotally race was not a factor in my experience- it had a lot more to do with undiagnosed/ diagnosed conditions with denial and caretaker issues (ranging from detached parents to teachers who were unable to cope with behavior issues.) In the end it was hard but they children ended up in better places where they could get the care/ attention they needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it is indeed a racial issue I would hesitate to presume its a simple matter of the little black boy being singled out by the prejudiced white teacher as the sole antagonist/instigator in her classroom and disciplined more often and more harshly as a result.
By and large, school districts with high percentages of black children are taught predominantly by black teachers and these schools also have a high percentage of black administrators - so where's the racist element to explain these disproportionate numbers in disciplinary action?
Could it be that perhaps the actual reason for the greater likelihood of suspensions for black students is not so much a racial issue in schools but more so a cultural issue in schools? - i.e. black teachers/administrators are more likely to kick a kid out of class than put him in time out.

Just wondering.

Um, no. First, each of my children have attended two different PG elementary schools. All four of those public schools have mostly white teachers and staff. All but one school has a majority black student body.

Second, even if there are mostly black teachers educating mostly black children, it can still be a racial issue if the principal and/or the school system has a policy that has inequitable racial impact.

The county at one time was accused of developing more IEPs with an emotional disturbance coding for misbehaving, special needs black boys, than similar white boys. Not all behavioral issues, even severe ones, are an indication of emoional disturbance.

If you'd bothered to pay attention you would have noticed I said by and large, meaning that yes, there are indeed SOME school districts with high percentages of black children that have a similar racial makeup as the ones in your community. However...again...by and large most school districts nationwide - and this is a nationwide study I might ad - with high percentages of black children are as I described.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And you went out of your way to put your own ignorance and prejudice on display because...?

There is nothing ignorant or prejudice about the truth. If you melanin-deficient people spent less time claiming other peoples histories and more time studying your own- you would know that you come from a mutation.


But someone let you out of your caves and gave you a chance to be civilized- and what do you do? You go from place to place raping, pillaging, killing innocent people, spreading diseases, causing wars all while playing so innocent as you erase history and rewrite to show you in a favorable light.

Then on top of it- you have the nerve to label people of color as savages- when really they are mostly reacting to how they’ve been treated. So we have a group of people who saw nothing wrong with raping women, hanging men from trees and cutting off their genitals, burning down prosperous towns (see: black wall street), handing out blankets with smallpox, and all other sorts of nonsense- being so self-righteous because they saw some blacks with baggy pants and loud voices.

You are joke.
You are insecure.
And the veil of secrecy and lies has been lifted.
Get over yourselves.

Good Lord. Have you been to central Africa? Poorer areas of Central Asia? Rural China? I'm guessing not or there would be no way in Hell you'd believe that one race has cornered the market on cruelty. Say, it's pretty much everywhere. Totally equal opportunity!