Black preschoolers more likely to face suspension

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did the study adjust for SES?

Even more obvious...did the study adjust for behavior?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a really shitty study as far as I can see. The vital question isn't addressed: Are they being suspended more often for the SAME behavior as other races or not?

It's not clear if these kids are either being unfairly punished or are actually behaving more poorly.

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/crdc-discipline-snapshot.pdf

PS- I do think it's interesting that hispanic students, who I believe often come from the same SES as blacks, are disciplined less often.

Did you really just type this?

Yes, because it's true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Weekly_Earnings.png

Exactly. Anyone who doubts it ---> check the data, or ask any teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is the link to the article: http://news.yahoo.com/black-preschoolers-more-likely-face-suspension-070710508.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — Black students are more likely to be suspended from U.S. public schools — even as tiny preschoolers.

The racial disparities in American education, from access to high-level classes and experienced teachers to discipline, were highlighted in a report released Friday by the Education Department's civil rights arm.

The suspensions — and disparities — begin at the earliest grades.

Black children represent about 18 percent of children in preschool programs in schools, but they make up almost half of the preschoolers suspended more than once, the report said. Six percent of the nation's districts with preschools reported suspending at least one preschool child.

[ Edited to comply with copyright laws. ]

So...

[Anonymous]

This study doesn't appear to indicate in any way that African American and non-African American preschoolers are treated any differently from each other. Put simply, if a white and African American child each engage in the same behavior, there is no reason to believe based on this study that they would be disciplined differently. 0P, is there something I am missing? Is there a reason you think this study has anything to do with discrimination? If so, why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is not a racial issue, it is a SES issue. Perhaps due to poverty and not having an engaged or even present father, black male students are at higher risk for having the type of problems that lead to suspension. If they broke the data down by SES and family structure then the racial disparity would disappear . This isn't rocket science.

Thought this would be a good time to pop in and share some recent study data that shows that black fathers are more involved with their kids than white or Latino fathers in almost every category. It's called the Myth of the Absent Black Father.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/01/16/3175831/myth-absent-black-father/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not a racial issue, it is a SES issue. Perhaps due to poverty and not having an engaged or even present father, black male students are at higher risk for having the type of problems that lead to suspension. If they broke the data down by SES and family structure then the racial disparity would disappear . This isn't rocket science.

Thought this would be a good time to pop in and share some recent study data that shows that black fathers are more involved with their kids than white or Latino fathers in almost every category. It's called the Myth of the Absent Black Father.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/01/16/3175831/myth-absent-black-father/

Yeah no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not a racial issue, it is a SES issue. Perhaps due to poverty and not having an engaged or even present father, black male students are at higher risk for having the type of problems that lead to suspension. If they broke the data down by SES and family structure then the racial disparity would disappear . This isn't rocket science.

Thought this would be a good time to pop in and share some recent study data that shows that black fathers are more involved with their kids than white or Latino fathers in almost every category. It's called the Myth of the Absent Black Father.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/01/16/3175831/myth-absent-black-father/

Yeah no.

When they are around, black fathers are extremely present fathers.

[Anonymous]

Just more bullshit conspiracy theory propaganda to confuse and convince minorities that there is some underlying agenda to punish and prohibit them from greater achievement.
If they'd raise respectable and respectful children and sustained stable supportive households this crap wouldn't be of issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it is indeed a racial issue I would hesitate to presume its a simple matter of the little black boy being singled out by the prejudiced white teacher as the sole antagonist/instigator in her classroom and disciplined more often and more harshly as a result.
By and large, school districts with high percentages of black children are taught predominantly by black teachers and these schools also have a high percentage of black administrators - so where's the racist element to explain these disproportionate numbers in disciplinary action?
Could it be that perhaps the actual reason for the greater likelihood of suspensions for black students is not so much a racial issue in schools but more so a cultural issue in schools? - i.e. black teachers/administrators are more likely to kick a kid out of class than put him in time out.

Just wondering.

Um, no. First, each of my children have attended two different PG elementary schools. All four of those public schools have mostly white teachers and staff. All but one school has a majority black student body.

Second, even if there are mostly black teachers educating mostly black children, it can still be a racial issue if the principal and/or the school system has a policy that has inequitable racial impact.

The county at one time was accused of developing more IEPs with an emotional disturbance coding for misbehaving, special needs black boys, than similar white boys. Not all behavioral issues, even severe ones, are an indication of emoional disturbance.

If you'd bothered to pay attention you would have noticed I said by and large, meaning that yes, there are indeed SOME school districts with high percentages of black children that have a similar racial makeup as the ones in your community. However...again...by and large most school districts nationwide - and this is a nationwide study I might ad - with high percentages of black children are as I described.

And? "By and large" or not, my opinion remains what I said before, based on my experiences. I also did not notice that occurring in the schools I attended in Maryland and California as a child when I had black teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just more bullshit conspiracy theory propaganda to confuse and convince minorities that there is some underlying agenda to punish and prohibit them from greater achievement.
If they'd raise respectable and respectful children and sustained stable supportive households this crap wouldn't be of issue.

Lol +100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is the link to the article: http://news.yahoo.com/black-preschoolers-more-likely-face-suspension-070710508.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — Black students are more likely to be suspended from U.S. public schools — even as tiny preschoolers.

The racial disparities in American education, from access to high-level classes and experienced teachers to discipline, were highlighted in a report released Friday by the Education Department's civil rights arm.

The suspensions — and disparities — begin at the earliest grades.

Black children represent about 18 percent of children in preschool programs in schools, but they make up almost half of the preschoolers suspended more than once, the report said. Six percent of the nation's districts with preschools reported suspending at least one preschool child.

[ Edited to comply with copyright laws. ]

Are they also more likely to engage in behaviors that result in suspension?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the study adjust for SES?

Even more obvious...did the study adjust for behavior?

See, pp, you're not allowed to ask questions like that because it makes you a racist. Focus on the outcomes of the study, not the inputs. Suggesting that black children may be more likely to misbehave, resulting in suspension, would be a stereotype (even if it is true), and you simply must not go there.

Do you understand now how this works?

[Anonymous]

Cosby Show doctor lawyer parents here, very active, involved, and teach our kids to be respectful. Our child is the only black one in a majority Asian preschool class of 8 students....all boys except for one girl. He is also gigantic compared to his classmates in size and is quite clumsy. All the boys in the class like to play rough, are high energy, fight over toys and have behavior issues that are not developmentally unusual for 3 and 4 yr old boys. The teacher tends to be diplomatic and pulls the parents of all the boys that were not on best behavior aside at pickup to let them know the days incidents. My son is just one of most in the class that gets these reports. She says he never does anything intentionally but he is just not aware of his space and often accidently knocks someone down or flails his arms about and hits someone. She says he is very apologetic and remorseful. However, the teachers aide is Asian and tends to gloss over what the other boys have done and just says "he hit X or hurt Y today". I have to probe to find out that it was typically accidental not intentional. Before I realized the prejudice, I was punishing my child by denying privileges and taking away things he enjoyed which I would not have done for knocking someone over accidently while dancing too wildly in class during dance time. I started to notice how this aide would happily greet the other boys and not greet mine in the morning. I have seen her in action on field trips glossing over things the other boys do. I hate when this aide is left in charge when the teacher has to be out because suddenly my son is the only troublemaker on those days. One day she told me he spit and I was livid at him (before I figured this aide out). Well it turns out that he did not spit but had been making a noise by holding lips together and blowing that he thought was hilarious. A behavior he actually learned from another boy in class. I have learned to ignore her constant reports. The teacher (white) has even mentioned that the aide often blows things out of proportion. I say all this to say that if left to that aides reports...my preschooler could have been one of those suspended or kicked out...for incidents that did not rise to the level that she made them seem to be. I can see how it can happen. I just had no idea that I had to worry about such things at a preschool level. We were sweating bullets about the teacher recommendation when applying to private schools but it turned out fine....thankfully the aide didn't write the report. Does she treat my son different because of color? I do not know, but all I know is that he is treated differently when it comes to behavior issues. Are there parents out there that do not model good behavior, let TV babysit their kid instead of spending time with them! that do not correct bad behavior and consider it amusing, that do not call their kid out when they are in the wrong and always blame others? I am sure there are...but I do not know any of those people in my self selected social circle of black folks...perhaps we would encounter more of them upon entering my zoned elementary school....I am sure we would which is one reason why we applied for private to select a peer group that has a higher rate of parents with similar values.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not a racial issue, it is a SES issue. Perhaps due to poverty and not having an engaged or even present father, black male students are at higher risk for having the type of problems that lead to suspension. If they broke the data down by SES and family structure then the racial disparity would disappear . This isn't rocket science.

Thought this would be a good time to pop in and share some recent study data that shows that black fathers are more involved with their kids than white or Latino fathers in almost every category. It's called the Myth of the Absent Black Father.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/01/16/3175831/myth-absent-black-father/

Ok, WHEN there is a father in the picture. In my experience working in MCPS and now DCPS, when an AA dad is there, he is really there and that of course makes an extraordinary difference in his child's life. Unfortunately, more often, it's a single mom, no dad in sight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cosby Show doctor lawyer parents here, very active, involved, and teach our kids to be respectful. Our child is the only black one in a majority Asian preschool class of 8 students....all boys except for one girl. He is also gigantic compared to his classmates in size and is quite clumsy. All the boys in the class like to play rough, are high energy, fight over toys and have behavior issues that are not developmentally unusual for 3 and 4 yr old boys. The teacher tends to be diplomatic and pulls the parents of all the boys that were not on best behavior aside at pickup to let them know the days incidents. My son is just one of most in the class that gets these reports. She says he never does anything intentionally but he is just not aware of his space and often accidently knocks someone down or flails his arms about and hits someone. She says he is very apologetic and remorseful. However, the teachers aide is Asian and tends to gloss over what the other boys have done and just says "he hit X or hurt Y today". I have to probe to find out that it was typically accidental not intentional. Before I realized the prejudice, I was punishing my child by denying privileges and taking away things he enjoyed which I would not have done for knocking someone over accidently while dancing too wildly in class during dance time. I started to notice how this aide would happily greet the other boys and not greet mine in the morning. I have seen her in action on field trips glossing over things the other boys do. I hate when this aide is left in charge when the teacher has to be out because suddenly my son is the only troublemaker on those days. One day she told me he spit and I was livid at him (before I figured this aide out). Well it turns out that he did not spit but had been making a noise by holding lips together and blowing that he thought was hilarious. A behavior he actually learned from another boy in class. I have learned to ignore her constant reports. The teacher (white) has even mentioned that the aide often blows things out of proportion. I say all this to say that if left to that aides reports...my preschooler could have been one of those suspended or kicked out...for incidents that did not rise to the level that she made them seem to be. I can see how it can happen. I just had no idea that I had to worry about such things at a preschool level. We were sweating bullets about the teacher recommendation when applying to private schools but it turned out fine....thankfully the aide didn't write the report. Does she treat my son different because of color? I do not know, but all I know is that he is treated differently when it comes to behavior issues. Are there parents out there that do not model good behavior, let TV babysit their kid instead of spending time with them! that do not correct bad behavior and consider it amusing, that do not call their kid out when they are in the wrong and always blame others? I am sure there are...but I do not know any of those people in my self selected social circle of black folks...perhaps we would encounter more of them upon entering my zoned elementary school....I am sure we would which is one reason why we applied for private to select a peer group that has a higher rate of parents with similar values.

Really glad you posted this. What is being described here is what is causing concern when we see the disproportionality in suspension rates. I know other PPs have asked "well did the account for the behavior" but the reality is that it would be impossible in a huge data collection project like this to track the specific behaviors prompted the suspension. Also, it still wouldn't get at the answer. In the example giving above, if the aide was reporting the bad behavior, it would be categorized as "spitting" when the reality is that something else was going on. If two boys shove each other, is that rough-housing, or assault? The concern is that what is happening is in some ways very subtle, like quoted person above describes. Not that AA boy in question did *nothing* wrong, but that whereas a similar boy doing a similar behavior might get a lesser punishment, the African American male student seems to more often get the harsher punishment. That it's happening as early as preschool and early elementary is extremely problematic, as is setting up a real negative reinforcement loop.