Totally Freaked About the Entire College Industry and Game

[Anonymous]

I don't actually want "the best" for my kid. "Good" is good enough for him and me. I am not willing to spend my child's teen years hounding him nonstop to achieve-achieve-ACHIEVE in order to acquire THE BEST. And even if he were one of those kids who drives himself relentlessly, without any push from me, I am not willing to spend (borrow) the amount of money that "the best" colleges will cost me.
Being upper middle class has its privileges, at least for me. I run the expected financial contribution calculator and the college net price calculators, and they generally spit out a number that is wholly unacceptable to me. They may think we can afford that amount; I don't. Once you realize that you aren't willing/able to pay for HYP, you stop worrying about whether your kid has what it takes to get in.

If you don't have the resources, you don't have the resources. HYP and their ilk give ZERO merit aid. ZERO. There will be no scholarships to "the best" schools that aren't directly related to your family income. If we were relatively poor, I'd be more interested in "the best" for my kid--both because "the best" schools are the most generous with financial aid and because the research shows that attending "the best" colleges makes a difference only for low income students, students of color, and first-generation college students. But for my upper middle income, white child of highly educated parents--research shows that "the best" conveys little benefit.

So breathe easy. All will be well.

I partly agree with you. We do push our child to always do his best but have just realized that no matter how much he achieves he will not be able to attend a top school because we can't afford to send him and I cannot countenance having him saddled with a lot of debt.
We have just figured this out in the last year and recently had a conversation with our hard-working, bright child about how we could not afford to pay $240K for four years at an Ivy but how we earned too much to qualify for any need-based financial aid which is all the top 50 colleges typically offer. It is unfortunate - if you are poor, you have the opportunity to get FA, if you are rich you have the means to pay but if you are an upper middle class family you are out of luck. Of course upper middle class by national standards is usually just barely getting by in the DMV. So, dc will have to go to UMD which is what we can afford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't actually want "the best" for my kid. "Good" is good enough for him and me. I am not willing to spend my child's teen years hounding him nonstop to achieve-achieve-ACHIEVE in order to acquire THE BEST. And even if he were one of those kids who drives himself relentlessly, without any push from me, I am not willing to spend (borrow) the amount of money that "the best" colleges will cost me.
Being upper middle class has its privileges, at least for me. I run the expected financial contribution calculator and the college net price calculators, and they generally spit out a number that is wholly unacceptable to me. They may think we can afford that amount; I don't. Once you realize that you aren't willing/able to pay for HYP, you stop worrying about whether your kid has what it takes to get in.

If you don't have the resources, you don't have the resources. HYP and their ilk give ZERO merit aid. ZERO. There will be no scholarships to "the best" schools that aren't directly related to your family income. If we were relatively poor, I'd be more interested in "the best" for my kid--both because "the best" schools are the most generous with financial aid and because the research shows that attending "the best" colleges makes a difference only for low income students, students of color, and first-generation college students. But for my upper middle income, white child of highly educated parents--research shows that "the best" conveys little benefit.

So breathe easy. All will be well.

I partly agree with you. We do push our child to always do his best but have just realized that no matter how much he achieves he will not be able to attend a top school because we can't afford to send him and I cannot countenance having him saddled with a lot of debt.
We have just figured this out in the last year and recently had a conversation with our hard-working, bright child about how we could not afford to pay $240K for four years at an Ivy but how we earned too much to qualify for any need-based financial aid which is all the top 50 colleges typically offer. It is unfortunate - if you are poor, you have the opportunity to get FA, if you are rich you have the means to pay but if you are an upper middle class family you are out of luck. Of course upper middle class by national standards is usually just barely getting by in the DMV. So, dc will have to go to UMD which is what we can afford.



We are in the same situation with our son and his college options are going to be all in-state. We're in VA, so there are quite a few to choose from, but I do feel somewhat guilty that we can't do OOS for him.

[Anonymous]

PP, have you looked at some of the top colleges just below Ivies? The Ivies don't offer merit aid, by agreement among themselves. But many of the non-Ivy top 50 do offer substantial merit aid. My kid was offered substantial merit aid a top-50, non-Ivy college.

[Anonymous]

There are now quite a few schools a notch down from ivies that offer merit aid. Of course UMD is a great school.

[Anonymous]

This is one of the reasons, in addition to finances, that we are leaving private school. The stress and angst about colleges is too over the top at our private.

[Anonymous]

Maryland is a fine school. My daughter, who would have been out-of-state for UMD, didn't apply there but applied to many similar-level state schools as an out-of-state student. She received a merit 1/2 scholarship at one. Others ranged from no money or not getting in, to a tiny bit of money. It is so unpredictable.

I do think if you have a good school like UMD and your child can be enthusiastic, given your stated financial reality, you are going the right thing.

[Anonymous]

I'm the 9.09 poster and I just wanted to say how much I appreciate the empathetic posts. DS is still a couple of years away from applying so we have not done a ton of detailed research about merit aid packages at top universities. It sounds like a couple of you were able to find some at non-Ivy top tier schools. May I ask how you conducted this research? Did you have to look at individual universities and colleges or was there a resource that summarized the information for you?
Thanks in advance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the 9.09 poster and I just wanted to say how much I appreciate the empathetic posts. DS is still a couple of years away from applying so we have not done a ton of detailed research about merit aid packages at top universities. It sounds like a couple of you were able to find some at non-Ivy top tier schools. May I ask how you conducted this research? Did you have to look at individual universities and colleges or was there a resource that summarized the information for you?
Thanks in advance.

I'm 9:30. As others have said, merit aid offers seem pretty random. There's no book to tell you that College X generally offers $X in merit to the straight-A student, while College Y generally offers $Y in merit aid to the same student. There's some anecdotal evidence floating around. For example, there was a recent DCUM thread on how Fordham generally offers full rides to a handful of stellar kids and very little to most others, and that was certainly consistent with the stellar kid we know who got a full ride at Fordham recently. I'll add my own anecdote, which is that one school offered our $25K as the "President's Award" and DC's friend got the exact same $25K amount from the exact same school, but this time it was called the "Dean's Award." So not a lot of rhyme or reason.

In general, colleges that are trying to improve their reputation tend to be generous with merit aid towards exceptional kids they think might matriculate -- which means stellar kids but always kids they think might be lured away by an even more attractive college offering a great package. If you apply for FA (which we didn't, having HHI>$100K), this will give the admissions folks additional info about how they might tailor their offer to woo your kid.

As you might expect, at least among the kids we know who have recently gone through the process, this tends to result in outcomes that don't follow very clear patterns....

[Anonymous]

^^^ correction: which means stellar kids but NOT always kids they think might be lured away

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the 9.09 poster and I just wanted to say how much I appreciate the empathetic posts. DS is still a couple of years away from applying so we have not done a ton of detailed research about merit aid packages at top universities. It sounds like a couple of you were able to find some at non-Ivy top tier schools. May I ask how you conducted this research? Did you have to look at individual universities and colleges or was there a resource that summarized the information for you?
Thanks in advance.

The first thing to do is identify colleges and universities that offer merit aid. This information is reported by all colleges and universities on the Common Data Set. Every college and university has this information on its website (some have made it easier to find than others) but if you type "common data" into the search engine of each college's website, you can usually find it quickly. (You can also use this website to access most of the Common Data Set items for each school, but the merit aid info you are looking for isn't included here: http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/ )

You want to go to the financial aid section of the Common Data Set. For example, here is a link to the Common Data Set of Washington University in St. Louis for 2012-13:

http://wustl.edu/policies/assets/pdfs/wustl%20cds%202012-2013.pdf

Scroll down to page 20. You are looking for "H2A. Number of Enrolled Students Awarded Non-need-based Scholarships and Grants." Here on line n you can see that Wash U awarded 229 freshman non-need based scholarships, and on line o you can see that the average amount of those scholarships was $10,143. You can also see that the average amount of non-need-based scholarships for upper class man (next column) is $6072, which suggests that students don't get as much merit money in subsequent years as they do freshman year (something to keep in mind when you evaluate awards from different schools).

Now, the next thing you need to know is whether or not your student has a shot at getting that money. For that, check to see what the SAT score is at the 75th percentile for the school. That information for Wash U is on page 9. "C9. Percent and number of first-time, first-year (freshman) students enrolled in Fall 2012 who submitted national standardized (SAT/ACT) test scores." Here you can see that the 75th percentile for Wash U SAT scores is 770. IOW, your kid needs a near perfect SAT score to distinguish themselves from the pack at Wash U. But if your kid has that score (and other attributes as well no doubt), he/she might get some merit aid, and possibly a lot of merit aid, depending on the school.

I recommend making a spreadsheet, but believe it or not some enterprising person has built one for you, and you can buy it if you want:

http://diycollegerankings.com/

Generally, you are looking for colleges and universities where your child has an SAT score that places him/her at or above the 75% score...but keeping in mind you want a challenging academic environment, not TOO far above the middle 50%. A kid with a 700 SAT score likely will not find enough challenge at a college where the middle 50% of scores ranges from, say, 450-550. However, a school with a middle 50% ranges from, say, 600-700 can fit the bill nicely.

Also on the CDS you can see how important other things are for admission: interview, ranking, etc.

Last, note the dates: when the new admission year's application opens, but especially the Early Action (EA) dates. Make sure you understand the distinctions between the nonbinding EA and SCEA (Single Choice Early Action), ED (Early Decision, binding), and rolling admission.

Another important set of dates are those related to financial aid applications and any for scholarships. Many private schools require the CSS form, which I believe becomes available October 1. I think it's handy to note which are FAFSA schools and which are CSS schools, and get both ready to submit. Some privates also have their own financial aid forms. Even if you don't think you will qualify for financial aid, some schools require that you apply if you want to be considered for merit aid. And: many colleges give out merit aid early, so prepare to apply Early Action (not Early Decision, which may have the same deadlines as EA, but is binding).

This website is a font of information, and I highly recommend the book as well.

http://www.thecollegesolution.com/

I also highly recommend the Fiske Guide to Colleges--synopses of the many colleges and universities with ratings but not rankings. It gives a great sense of the culture and flavor of different schools, and uses a star rating system for academics, social life, and overall quality of life. Very helpful. And I like the book Colleges That Change Lives--a great write-up of relatively little-known but well-respected (in the higher educational community) liberal arts colleges. This author is a bit of a shill, but still it is really great to read about colleges far outside the USNWR top 20 that have great track records of sending grads to top med schools, grad programs, etc. It can help you reframe your thinking.

[Anonymous]

^^forgot to include:

All colleges and universities have Net Price Calculators on their websites. (Again, sometimes you have to hunt for it.) Plug in info about your family's finances and the student's GPA/scores, and you will get an estimate of what students like yours typically pay to attend. This can help you and your child identify schools that might be affordable for your family.

[Anonymous]

I'm 9:30/12:17. Wow, PP, that was really helpful. I never knew that info exists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the 9.09 poster and I just wanted to say how much I appreciate the empathetic posts. DS is still a couple of years away from applying so we have not done a ton of detailed research about merit aid packages at top universities. It sounds like a couple of you were able to find some at non-Ivy top tier schools. May I ask how you conducted this research? Did you have to look at individual universities and colleges or was there a resource that summarized the information for you?
Thanks in advance.

The first thing to do is identify colleges and universities that offer merit aid. This information is reported by all colleges and universities on the Common Data Set. Every college and university has this information on its website (some have made it easier to find than others) but if you type "common data" into the search engine of each college's website, you can usually find it quickly. (You can also use this website to access most of the Common Data Set items for each school, but the merit aid info you are looking for isn't included here: http://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/ )

You want to go to the financial aid section of the Common Data Set. For example, here is a link to the Common Data Set of Washington University in St. Louis for 2012-13:

http://wustl.edu/policies/assets/pdfs/wustl%20cds%202012-2013.pdf

Scroll down to page 20. You are looking for "H2A. Number of Enrolled Students Awarded Non-need-based Scholarships and Grants." Here on line n you can see that Wash U awarded 229 freshman non-need based scholarships, and on line o you can see that the average amount of those scholarships was $10,143. You can also see that the average amount of non-need-based scholarships for upper class man (next column) is $6072, which suggests that students don't get as much merit money in subsequent years as they do freshman year (something to keep in mind when you evaluate awards from different schools).

Now, the next thing you need to know is whether or not your student has a shot at getting that money. For that, check to see what the SAT score is at the 75th percentile for the school. That information for Wash U is on page 9. "C9. Percent and number of first-time, first-year (freshman) students enrolled in Fall 2012 who submitted national standardized (SAT/ACT) test scores." Here you can see that the 75th percentile for Wash U SAT scores is 770. IOW, your kid needs a near perfect SAT score to distinguish themselves from the pack at Wash U. But if your kid has that score (and other attributes as well no doubt), he/she might get some merit aid, and possibly a lot of merit aid, depending on the school.

I recommend making a spreadsheet, but believe it or not some enterprising person has built one for you, and you can buy it if you want:

http://diycollegerankings.com/

Generally, you are looking for colleges and universities where your child has an SAT score that places him/her at or above the 75% score...but keeping in mind you want a challenging academic environment, not TOO far above the middle 50%. A kid with a 700 SAT score likely will not find enough challenge at a college where the middle 50% of scores ranges from, say, 450-550. However, a school with a middle 50% ranges from, say, 600-700 can fit the bill nicely.

Also on the CDS you can see how important other things are for admission: interview, ranking, etc.

Last, note the dates: when the new admission year's application opens, but especially the Early Action (EA) dates. Make sure you understand the distinctions between the nonbinding EA and SCEA (Single Choice Early Action), ED (Early Decision, binding), and rolling admission.

Another important set of dates are those related to financial aid applications and any for scholarships. Many private schools require the CSS form, which I believe becomes available October 1. I think it's handy to note which are FAFSA schools and which are CSS schools, and get both ready to submit. Some privates also have their own financial aid forms. Even if you don't think you will qualify for financial aid, some schools require that you apply if you want to be considered for merit aid. And: many colleges give out merit aid early, so prepare to apply Early Action (not Early Decision, which may have the same deadlines as EA, but is binding).

This website is a font of information, and I highly recommend the book as well.

http://www.thecollegesolution.com/

I also highly recommend the Fiske Guide to Colleges--synopses of the many colleges and universities with ratings but not rankings. It gives a great sense of the culture and flavor of different schools, and uses a star rating system for academics, social life, and overall quality of life. Very helpful. And I like the book Colleges That Change Lives--a great write-up of relatively little-known but well-respected (in the higher educational community) liberal arts colleges. This author is a bit of a shill, but still it is really great to read about colleges far outside the USNWR top 20 that have great track records of sending grads to top med schools, grad programs, etc. It can help you reframe your thinking.

One of the best posts EVER! This should be a syndicated column. I have learned a lot about the process over the past few years and read tons of material, but this is by far and away the best on this subject!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:18:09 Does your child have to play the sport? That's driving college? What if DC gets injured?

I cannot believe how high strung some of you sound!

There should be a poster: Stay Calm and Apply On.

18:19 here. Yes, my child HAS to play the sport. It's his whole world, and I would not take that from him. If he gets injured, he will get better, and he'll play again. But shutting out the opportunity to play would be devastating to him. I could not do it.

Yes, I'm high strung. Do you have a junior, PP? Do you have the resources to pay for private school without aid? If so, lucky you. Many are not so lucky, and yes this is a terribly stressful time and quite overwhelming to negotiate. We all want the best for our kids, don't we?

I don't actually want "the best" for my kid. "Good" is good enough for him and me. I am not willing to spend my child's teen years hounding him nonstop to achieve-achieve-ACHIEVE in order to acquire THE BEST. And even if he were one of those kids who drives himself relentlessly, without any push from me, I am not willing to spend (borrow) the amount of money that "the best" colleges will cost me.

Being upper middle class has its privileges, at least for me. I run the expected financial contribution calculator and the college net price calculators, and they generally spit out a number that is wholly unacceptable to me. They may think we can afford that amount; I don't. Once you realize that you aren't willing/able to pay for HYP, you stop worrying about whether your kid has what it takes to get in.

If you don't have the resources, you don't have the resources. HYP and their ilk give ZERO merit aid. ZERO. There will be no scholarships to "the best" schools that aren't directly related to your family income. If we were relatively poor, I'd be more interested in "the best" for my kid--both because "the best" schools are the most generous with financial aid and because the research shows that attending "the best" colleges makes a difference only for low income students, students of color, and first-generation college students. But for my upper middle income, white child of highly educated parents--research shows that "the best" conveys little benefit.

So breathe easy. All will be well.

I am dumbfounded. I thought I was the only parent who felt this way. Bravo to you for stating this so eloquently.

[Anonymous]

Oh, and here's one more potentially useful link, and it's actually from USNWR! A ranking of colleges by share of students receiving merit aid:

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/most-merit-aid