Totally Freaked About the Entire College Industry and Game

[Anonymous]

Not that I am ancient, but back in the day, most of the kids in my HS went to college. A few to Ivy's, many to state schools, some went to community college first. Couple of guys joined the military, but not many. Very little in the way of school rankings. Someone went to Harvard, wished them luck, no reason for a 21 gun salute. Personally, I eventually went to graduate business school. Not a huge deal-filled out the application, took the GMAT, wrote an essay, and got two recommendation.

Flash forward to today with a teenager a couple of years away from college. It's totally nuts. Everything is a ranking, brag piece, listing, etc. Everyone is paranoid that if their child does not go to a great school, they will become road kill in the global economy. Apply for an MBA? Interview after interview, three or four essays, and you have to talk about your plans for solving world hunger. It's as if there is an entire industry around how to game the system. Want to go to a good school? Your child has to play in the band, volunteer at a soup kitchen, take a picture with a starving third world baby, earn three varsity letters, etc. I hear some of the kids in HS talk about building their "brand". I hear colleges call themselves "brands".

How do you stay out of the craziness? I don't think my kid would be a good fit for a hyper-competitive environment like Duke or Virginia. She needs a smaller environment where everyone knows each other and is supportive. She is already concerned about drugs and sex in college. Can't a kid find a school good for THEM, without all the dumb-assed rankings. A place where not everyone is trying to party, have sex until their brains fall out, and drink? What is a parent to do. Also, I can understand that the Ivy's, MIT, and Stanford are considered a cut above the rest, but how can US News or anyone say there is a difference between the #26 and #42 schools in the country. We live in a country of 310 million and a world of almost 7 billion. Are there only 60 or 70 schools in the US that can freaking teach Shakespeare or how to do debits and credits or design a bridge. It sounds like hair splitting to me yet people agonize over the smallest change in the ranking as if the world moved. Can anyone really find any difference between something like psychology department #4 and #11?

[Anonymous]

Take a deep breath. You sound super anxious. Your daughter could pick up on this. We just went through it. There are tons of people who have the right perspective. There are tons of great schools and it really is all about the fit. Forget the rankings. You've got a few years. Does your daughter have a good college counselor at her school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not that I am ancient, but back in the day, most of the kids in my HS went to college. A few to Ivy's, many to state schools, some went to community college first. Couple of guys joined the military, but not many. Very little in the way of school rankings. Someone went to Harvard, wished them luck, no reason for a 21 gun salute. Personally, I eventually went to graduate business school. Not a huge deal-filled out the application, took the GMAT, wrote an essay, and got two recommendation.

Flash forward to today with a teenager a couple of years away from college. It's totally nuts. Everything is a ranking, brag piece, listing, etc. Everyone is paranoid that if their child does not go to a great school, they will become road kill in the global economy. Apply for an MBA? Interview after interview, three or four essays, and you have to talk about your plans for solving world hunger. It's as if there is an entire industry around how to game the system. Want to go to a good school? Your child has to play in the band, volunteer at a soup kitchen, take a picture with a starving third world baby, earn three varsity letters, etc. I hear some of the kids in HS talk about building their "brand". I hear colleges call themselves "brands".

How do you stay out of the craziness? I don't think my kid would be a good fit for a hyper-competitive environment like Duke or Virginia. She needs a smaller environment where everyone knows each other and is supportive. She is already concerned about drugs and sex in college. Can't a kid find a school good for THEM, without all the dumb-assed rankings. A place where not everyone is trying to party, have sex until their brains fall out, and drink? What is a parent to do. Also, I can understand that the Ivy's, MIT, and Stanford are considered a cut above the rest, but how can US News or anyone say there is a difference between the #26 and #42 schools in the country. We live in a country of 310 million and a world of almost 7 billion. Are there only 60 or 70 schools in the US that can freaking teach Shakespeare or how to do debits and credits or design a bridge. It sounds like hair splitting to me yet people agonize over the smallest change in the ranking as if the world moved. Can anyone really find any difference between something like psychology department #4 and #11?

Are you sure you aren't me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not that I am ancient, but back in the day, most of the kids in my HS went to college. A few to Ivy's, many to state schools, some went to community college first. Couple of guys joined the military, but not many. Very little in the way of school rankings. Someone went to Harvard, wished them luck, no reason for a 21 gun salute. Personally, I eventually went to graduate business school. Not a huge deal-filled out the application, took the GMAT, wrote an essay, and got two recommendation.

Flash forward to today with a teenager a couple of years away from college. It's totally nuts. Everything is a ranking, brag piece, listing, etc. Everyone is paranoid that if their child does not go to a great school, they will become road kill in the global economy. Apply for an MBA? Interview after interview, three or four essays, and you have to talk about your plans for solving world hunger. It's as if there is an entire industry around how to game the system. Want to go to a good school? Your child has to play in the band, volunteer at a soup kitchen, take a picture with a starving third world baby, earn three varsity letters, etc. I hear some of the kids in HS talk about building their "brand". I hear colleges call themselves "brands".

How do you stay out of the craziness? I don't think my kid would be a good fit for a hyper-competitive environment like Duke or Virginia. She needs a smaller environment where everyone knows each other and is supportive. She is already concerned about drugs and sex in college. Can't a kid find a school good for THEM, without all the dumb-assed rankings. A place where not everyone is trying to party, have sex until their brains fall out, and drink? What is a parent to do. Also, I can understand that the Ivy's, MIT, and Stanford are considered a cut above the rest, but how can US News or anyone say there is a difference between the #26 and #42 schools in the country. We live in a country of 310 million and a world of almost 7 billion. Are there only 60 or 70 schools in the US that can freaking teach Shakespeare or how to do debits and credits or design a bridge. It sounds like hair splitting to me yet people agonize over the smallest change in the ranking as if the world moved. Can anyone really find any difference between something like psychology department #4 and #11?

#4 might require proper use of apostrophes and "plural's."

[Anonymous]

I have a junior who is at a private school that literally forces the parents into this circus. Perhaps all the privates do, but at ours, it's a military operation. It has me going completely crazeeeee! My child plays a sport that's only played at a relatively small number of colleges, most of them private, so that is a restriction on the schools that he will attend that is doubling my craziness! On top of that, we are not eligible for FA, but can't afford to pay for any private college, so have to negotiate this very hazy world of "merit" aid in order to get DS into a school we can afford and where he can play his sport. I feel like DS will end up at a community college in the end -- to the complete revulsion of parents (and the counseling office) at our school!

When I went to school, I applied to three schools, one of them an Ivy. I got into all three, picked the one I wanted to go to, got some financial aid, and my dad paid the rest. I had a job at school, and a tiny loan. Four years later, I graduated from that very fine school with a small debt, got a low-paying job, yet still managed to pay off the loan in a few years.

Now, I see children and their families taking on staggering debt just to get through what I consider second or third tier schools. The schools I applied to are completely out of bounds for my kids, who have the same credentials I did, but are facing competition from a much larger pool of kids who have far better credentials. You didn't have to be a superstar to get into a great school back in my day, and it was completely within the ability of the middle class to pay for it.

I really don't know how to negotiate this mess, but I suppose we'll stumble through.

I don't understand why Congress has not started reining in college costs. Most of these schools should be taxed -- they are selling a product at a profit, and they plow those profits into larger campuses, bigger buildings, more expensive faculty to add to their prestige. Little of this creates a better education for our children, but the costs keep going up, and we keep paying them.

I do not think you can stay out of the craziness, OP, unless you let your child take a gap year and apply after all the madness of her peers has died down. I know someone whose child did that. She had a wonderful year working at a retail store, taking classes at a community college and spending time on her applications. She ended up at a very good school (not Ivy, but close) and avoided the madness.

Otherwise, you just have to hang on for the ride and enjoy it. That's what a parent whose gone through this twice and is on her third (and last) ride told me. This is the last year your child will be at home with you, so it's best to have fun and cherish every moment until they leave. They'll come back, but never live with you as a child again. That's how I'm dealing with it, OP. Good luck to you.

[Anonymous]

OP its only crazy if you let it be and it sounds like you are letting your anxiety get the best of you. My DD totally ignored the rankings and looked for schools that were strong in her area of interest. You really truly will only be ruled by this nonsense if you decide to be.

How old is your DD? It sounds like this is all premature. Frankly, I think your anxiety is because you can't imagine your DD growing up. Thats why you're freaked out by the whole sex and drugs thing.

As for "what is a parent to do?" The answer is, not much. This will be your child's process, not yours. Your role is on the sidelines. And if you approach it with the kind of anxiety you are exhibiting now that will be especially important.

[Anonymous]

OP you are awesome! I feel how you do everyday. Kids today have to prove that they are so spectacular and amazing and perfect and do it with passion! They have to take college courses to get into college. The college marketing machine is like the wedding industry. AP classes and tests, SATs, ACTs, SAT subject tests, the most challenging course load, internships, lessons, camps, and on and on. How many hoops must a teenager jump through. And don't worry, college is affordable for everyone (not). So parents are suppose to pay $60,000 a year so they can end up at a place like Dartmouth and join a fraternity and binge drink and act like an idiot. The whole work hard, party hard attitude driving this country is crazy. Does anyone every sit back and wonder if this is cave man thinking?

[Anonymous]

OP We all feel the same. Yet I notice that the kids are going to the same old colleges that we did (a step down, perhaps)

[Anonymous]

18:09 Does your child have to play the sport? That's driving college? What if DC gets injured?

I cannot believe how high strung some of you sound!

There should be a poster: Stay Calm and Apply On.

[Anonymous]

It really depends on the kid and where he/she is aiming. My older one looked at a range of small mid range LACs. Selected one that was lower ranked than another she was accepted at. It wasn't that difficult a process when you are looking at schools with 25-40% admission rates.

To be fair, it wasn't a THAT easy back in the day. I went to college nearly 35 years ago and it was a stressful process then coming from one of the big private schools here in DC. We didn't have SAT prep and kids weren't quite as accomplished as today's high school students, but there was plenty of pressure to get into a top school. I also have an MBA, from an Ivy League school, and that was easier but not a cakewalk. I was lucky they were desperate for women in those days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Take a deep breath. You sound super anxious. Your daughter could pick up on this. We just went through it. There are tons of people who have the right perspective. There are tons of great schools and it really is all about the fit. Forget the rankings. You've got a few years. Does your daughter have a good college counselor at her school?

OP here. Took a deep breath. It just seems like all the oxygen in the room is taken by people who say "top 50 school or else". And at her school, there is a lot of peer pressure to get into a handful of colleges. She does have a good counselor who has suggested looking at local schools, where she could either go for one year and then transfer or if she likes it, maybe get an apartment with some friends.

Another poster said the school industry is like the wedding industry. In fact I was browsing through a book where it said that the reason colleges are spending so much on football and basketball is because it helps boost rankings (Northwestern's applications went up 30% when they went to the Rose Bowl)! This is nuts. Just glad to hear that there are some normal people who don't feed on this stuff. And what I always wonder is, at all the large corporations where I have worked, you had people at the top who came from top schools while others were from no-name places. So how accurate is it to say that only 50 schools can get you where you want?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It really depends on the kid and where he/she is aiming. My older one looked at a range of small mid range LACs. Selected one that was lower ranked than another she was accepted at. It wasn't that difficult a process when you are looking at schools with 25-40% admission rates.

To be fair, it wasn't a THAT easy back in the day. I went to college nearly 35 years ago and it was a stressful process then coming from one of the big private schools here in DC. We didn't have SAT prep and kids weren't quite as accomplished as today's high school students, but there was plenty of pressure to get into a top school. I also have an MBA, from an Ivy League school, and that was easier but not a cakewalk. I was lucky they were desperate for women in those days.

Also have an MBA, but from a not-quite Ivy. Personally, I think it is harder to get into a good MBA school because you are competing with a more self-selected pool. The new group includes people already past the good undergrad schools and with career credentials.

[Anonymous]

OP, I am glad you posted this.
Our kids are only in elementary school but I see folks with kids applying to college and it does sound like what you say.
We were talking to a counselor the other day and I did bring it up. She said that you really need to come up with your own family culture on what matters to you and stick with that. When you feel pressure from the outside, you are probably worrying about things that aren't important to you.

I have wondered though-- what's wrong with community college? I was talking with a colleague and she was saying that going to a community college would be so embarrassing for her kid. I totally do not understand that- but then again, my kids are still too young.

I do like the idea of letting things die down and taking that gap year. I did that in between college and grad school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not that I am ancient, but back in the day, most of the kids in my HS went to college. A few to Ivy's, many to state schools, some went to community college first. Couple of guys joined the military, but not many. Very little in the way of school rankings. Someone went to Harvard, wished them luck, no reason for a 21 gun salute. Personally, I eventually went to graduate business school. Not a huge deal-filled out the application, took the GMAT, wrote an essay, and got two recommendation.

Flash forward to today with a teenager a couple of years away from college. It's totally nuts. Everything is a ranking, brag piece, listing, etc. Everyone is paranoid that if their child does not go to a great school, they will become road kill in the global economy. Apply for an MBA? Interview after interview, three or four essays, and you have to talk about your plans for solving world hunger. It's as if there is an entire industry around how to game the system. Want to go to a good school? Your child has to play in the band, volunteer at a soup kitchen, take a picture with a starving third world baby, earn three varsity letters, etc. I hear some of the kids in HS talk about building their "brand". I hear colleges call themselves "brands".

How do you stay out of the craziness? I don't think my kid would be a good fit for a hyper-competitive environment like Duke or Virginia. She needs a smaller environment where everyone knows each other and is supportive. She is already concerned about drugs and sex in college. Can't a kid find a school good for THEM, without all the dumb-assed rankings. A place where not everyone is trying to party, have sex until their brains fall out, and drink? What is a parent to do. Also, I can understand that the Ivy's, MIT, and Stanford are considered a cut above the rest, but how can US News or anyone say there is a difference between the #26 and #42 schools in the country. We live in a country of 310 million and a world of almost 7 billion. Are there only 60 or 70 schools in the US that can freaking teach Shakespeare or how to do debits and credits or design a bridge. It sounds like hair splitting to me yet people agonize over the smallest change in the ranking as if the world moved. Can anyone really find any difference between something like psychology department #4 and #11?

Are you sure you aren't me?

+1
I think I've had this exact conversation multiple times with my husband. It's crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a deep breath. You sound super anxious. Your daughter could pick up on this. We just went through it. There are tons of people who have the right perspective. There are tons of great schools and it really is all about the fit. Forget the rankings. You've got a few years. Does your daughter have a good college counselor at her school?

OP here. Took a deep breath. It just seems like all the oxygen in the room is taken by people who say "top 50 school or else". And at her school, there is a lot of peer pressure to get into a handful of colleges. She does have a good counselor who has suggested looking at local schools, where she could either go for one year and then transfer or if she likes it, maybe get an apartment with some friends.

Another poster said the school industry is like the wedding industry. In fact I was browsing through a book where it said that the reason colleges are spending so much on football and basketball is because it helps boost rankings (Northwestern's applications went up 30% when they went to the Rose Bowl)! This is nuts. Just glad to hear that there are some normal people who don't feed on this stuff. And what I always wonder is, at all the large corporations where I have worked, you had people at the top who came from top schools while others were from no-name places. So how accurate is it to say that only 50 schools can get you where you want?

I'm going to be blunt -- if you let this get to you its your fault. You need to put a break on it now because your anxiety will only spill over to your child. Seriously, why do you care about peer pressure and the fact that other parents are obsessed with top 50 schools? Unless you are insecure about the fact that your DC won't be going to such a school? Its one thing for kids to get worried about their applications but you have to be the grownup here. And you also have to remember that this isn't about you. If your DC doesn't care about the top 50 BS, why do you? Why are you so concerned with measuring up to other people's standards?