HGC Scores

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: When you talk to the kids they say it was a very simple test (including non quantitative portions)-- largely single and double digit arithmetic manipulations. This approach is very similar to the low bar for differentiation (if any) in the current MCPS elementary school classrooms. Sounds like pitching home run soft balls to pending fourth grade students?

Some national talent searches use Explore, Act and/or SAT (advanced tests) to truly differentiate and spread out these scores. MCPS should learn from the Talent searches' 3 decades of testing research about valid tests for this group of students.

The type of MCPS test gives the HGC leadership flexibility and cover for social engineering (e.g., relying on the nebulous combination of scores from a truly non challenging test, parent recommendation, teacher recommendation, school recommendation and "variably assigned" proportion of ES to P on 3rd grade report cards).

I don't think I agree with you. Regardless, by 4th grade, parents and teachers have a variety of objective measures of the students. For ex., one could look at the results of this test and look at the MAP-M and MAP-R scores and get a very accurate picture of academic strengths. Not saying that entrance to the HGC takes into account these other scores, but they could contribute to a teacher rec.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: When you talk to the kids they say it was a very simple test (including non quantitative portions)-- largely single and double digit arithmetic manipulations.

This is different then what my child reported. She said there was little if any knowledge based questions. It was logic/spatial/puzzle type things. Lots of thinking involved. That is what I would expect.. What you are describing spunds more like MSA's...

[Anonymous]

Would someone post the scores for Cold Spring Center? TIA

[Anonymous]

My kid said there was no problem solving or critical thinking. She used the adjective "too easy". I prefer to trust her opinion and I agree with the other posters about the low bar. My kid is not gifted but got into CSES.

[Anonymous]

I prefer to trust my DD opinion as well. She only lost about 5 points total on all 3 parts. I remember her telling me about the last question which had to do with figuring out what she would be looking at if a piece of paper was folded a certain way based on the orginal description of the page. Not at all single digit addition..

[Anonymous]

People complaining about the test are ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I have heard some parents prep their kids for the test. Could it be that there is more of that at cold spring than elsewhere?

In fact, many of the students had perfect scores (60 out of 60 correct) on the Q section since a score of 56 correct out of 60 was well below the median for this group. What is the difference between a 56 and a 60? I'm sure the confidence intervals for those scores overlap and there is no difference. The bar is set so low and the distribution of scores is so skewed to the right (high end) resulting in reduction of that "achievement" gap. This allows the system to use the other more subjective criteria -- parent recommendation, teacher and school recommendation and grades with the new system where a judiciously placed ES by a third grade teacher (HGC gatekeeper) can achieve the ulterior purposes of the school. If a 56 out of 60 is well below the median are these kids all gifted or is MCPS afraid of administering a hard and difficult exam so that the scores will not spread out. Are they afraid of what they may find out about who is really gifted? Perhaps the low bar test is by premeditated design?

Just to speak to your point about the value of ES -- at our school for first semester, during parent/teacher conference, I asked my child's teacher why DC didn't get any ES marks. Teacher said that ES could only be given if student earned 75% ES marks on individual assignments, implying that my child just didn't do well enough on assignments. I passed teacher a book of all graded returned assignments for the semester and asked teacher to show me which ones DC could have earned an ES on but didn't and to explain what DC didn't do that should've been done. Many perfect papers had "P" marked on the top. Teacher admitted that none of the assignments given had ES even as a possible mark, and therefore that DC was not even given the opportunity to earn an ES.

So, in this portion of the HGC application process, my child had no chance of being competitive through no fault of DC's own.

I doubt this is an isolated incident -- the new grading system is highly subjective both within a school and across schools.

[Anonymous]

What does ES stand for?

[Anonymous]

How do you know that the people doing the admissions for the HGCs used ESs as a criterion for admission?

[Anonymous]

MCPS takes kids into the HGC that are above or below the median scores. A low bar entrance test lumps the wheat with the chafe and gives the administration the flexibility of using parent recommendation, school recommendation, teacher recommendation and report card (really proportion of ES asigned or proportion of P to ES) to target the kids they prefer -- particular those on the bubble. This is not rocket science. It's how the process has always worked.

A normed, rigorous and well above grade level entrance exam would expose the selection process for the very few seats. Of course, I think there are many kids who are deserving of enriched and accelerated education but if the County chooses to have a select few HGC seats their entrance exam should be normed, valid and more rigorous.

[Anonymous]

How do you know that the people doing the admissions for the HGCs used ESs as a criterion for admission?

My child's acceptance letter stated the selection committee used the child's report card as one of the evaluated criteria. Since she had a few ESs I assumed it must have countered for something ( as opposed to all Ps). I understand teachers handled the award of ES differently from school to school, class to class and within each classroom over time. You're right it's an assumption on my part. I'm glad it (ESs) was on her report card though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you know that the people doing the admissions for the HGCs used ESs as a criterion for admission?[
/quote]

My child has not received any ES grades on the report card and was admitted. I doubt it was taken into account.

[Anonymous]

Which HGC? Red zone.

[Anonymous]

What does Red Zone mean? My child probably wouldn't have been selected for some centers, but was accepted into Pine Crest with scores well above the median. And no ES scores on report cards, as the school has a practice of not using ES grades. And how on earth could you prep a child for a test designed to measure reasoning abilities? And why would you want to?

[Anonymous]

What do you mean by scores well above the median?

If 56 correct out of 60 is well below the median then 1 to 3 correct items is well above the median?