Which is "worse", major ADHD or minor Aspergers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love the way everyone here is dismissing AS. As the parent and sibling of people with AS I can tell you that cute and quirky becomes something very different in adults. And the demands of holding a job are very difficult for many people with AS.

As for "labels", a correct diagnosis does far more than get your DC treatment, it gives your DC an understanding of himself and why he is the way he is. People with AS have elevated rates of depression and suicide for a reason. My DS has grown up knowing his diagnosis, and not being defined by it, he thinks he's no big deal. And when his AS causes challenges, he knows why. I know from my siblings experience, not having a diagnosis, how incredibly important that is.

Also keep in mind that elementary school is the golden age for kids with AS. The ones who seem to be doing so well can encounter great difficulties in high school and as they go off to college, if they go off to college.

I hope you are being tongue in cheek when you say you expect your DC to attend the same Ivy as his parents. I have a senior and can tell you how much pressure this creates for any kid.

Nope. Perfectly serious but then our developmental pediatrician had the same reaction. We also have AS in our family other than my DS who was diagnosed with AS. DH, his brother, their father, my mother and both my brothers all have AS characteristics and I'm pretty certain would be diagnosed with AS if the diagnosis existed when they were children. Their AS symptoms are much worse in every way than my DS's.

My brother-in-law is the college professor described earlier on this thread. Despite the AS, my DH, his brother and their father all attended the same Ivy and graduate schools, became gainfully employed and lead pretty normal lives. Of the three, grandpa has the worst symptoms and the AS seems to be pretty diluted when it comes to DS although enough to give him an AS diagnosis by everyone who has ever evaluated him including the aforementioned developmental pediatrician, neuropsychs, OT, SLPs, etc.

My mother and one of my brothers are highly gifted in math... were math prodigies. My mother is worse than my brother when it comes to AS symptoms. Everyone was an academic superstar without IEPs or supports.

So that's been my experience with AS: I don't think of AS as "quirky" (hate that term actually) - it's my "normal." So I choose to believe my son is perfectly capable of attending the same Ivy as his forbears with all the understanding, supports, and IEP since he hasn't shown me anything so far that shows that he won't be able to. Let a parent dream...

You can dream. There is no reason to think this child won't do as well as his parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love the way everyone here is dismissing AS. As the parent and sibling of people with AS I can tell you that cute and quirky becomes something very different in adults. And the demands of holding a job are very difficult for many people with AS.

As for "labels", a correct diagnosis does far more than get your DC treatment, it gives your DC an understanding of himself and why he is the way he is. People with AS have elevated rates of depression and suicide for a reason. My DS has grown up knowing his diagnosis, and not being defined by it, he thinks he's no big deal. And when his AS causes challenges, he knows why. I know from my siblings experience, not having a diagnosis, how incredibly important that is.

Also keep in mind that elementary school is the golden age for kids with AS. The ones who seem to be doing so well can encounter great difficulties in high school and as they go off to college, if they go off to college.

I hope you are being tongue in cheek when you say you expect your DC to attend the same Ivy as his parents. I have a senior and can tell you how much pressure this creates for any kid.

Nope. Perfectly serious but then our developmental pediatrician had the same reaction. We also have AS in our family other than my DS who was diagnosed with AS. DH, his brother, their father, my mother and both my brothers all have AS characteristics and I'm pretty certain would be diagnosed with AS if the diagnosis existed when they were children. Their AS symptoms are much worse in every way than my DS's.

My brother-in-law is the college professor described earlier on this thread. Despite the AS, my DH, his brother and their father all attended the same Ivy and graduate schools, became gainfully employed and lead pretty normal lives. Of the three, grandpa has the worst symptoms and the AS seems to be pretty diluted when it comes to DS although enough to give him an AS diagnosis by everyone who has ever evaluated him including the aforementioned developmental pediatrician, neuropsychs, OT, SLPs, etc.

My mother and one of my brothers are highly gifted in math... were math prodigies. My mother is worse than my brother when it comes to AS symptoms. Everyone was an academic superstar without IEPs or supports.

So that's been my experience with AS: I don't think of AS as "quirky" (hate that term actually) - it's my "normal." So I choose to believe my son is perfectly capable of attending the same Ivy as his forbears with all the understanding, supports, and IEP since he hasn't shown me anything so far that shows that he won't be able to. Let a parent dream...

Everybody's AS experience is different. Sometimes its hard to accept for those whose AS experience is starkly more darker, more challenging... who have a hard time reaching "a normal life" with college, a job, and a family.

I'm glad your family with AS did so well.

But for those who have family members who didn't skate on by easily, I think they need to know that they are not alone and that for many people with AS, it doesn't come so easily and the endings aren't as ... the endings sometimes are not Ivy league and for those parents, i think they need to know, thats okay...

ITA. It is different for every family. I should add that that in addition to AS - where my family members do well - the other disease that runs in our family is schizophrenia and not the misdiagnosed childhood schizophrenia that is probably ASD kind but the seemingly perfectly normal kid until they hit late teens when they start hearing voices. Thankfully, no one has had both AS/ASD AND schizophrenia: so if given a choice I'll take ASD anyday. The family members who had schizophrenia did not lead normal lives, far far from it, so I understand what you are talking about. You hope for the best anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love the way everyone here is dismissing AS. As the parent and sibling of people with AS I can tell you that cute and quirky becomes something very different in adults. And the demands of holding a job are very difficult for many people with AS.

As for "labels", a correct diagnosis does far more than get your DC treatment, it gives your DC an understanding of himself and why he is the way he is. People with AS have elevated rates of depression and suicide for a reason. My DS has grown up knowing his diagnosis, and not being defined by it, he thinks he's no big deal. And when his AS causes challenges, he knows why. I know from my siblings experience, not having a diagnosis, how incredibly important that is.

Also keep in mind that elementary school is the golden age for kids with AS. The ones who seem to be doing so well can encounter great difficulties in high school and as they go off to college, if they go off to college.

I hope you are being tongue in cheek when you say you expect your DC to attend the same Ivy as his parents. I have a senior and can tell you how much pressure this creates for any kid.

Nope. Perfectly serious but then our developmental pediatrician had the same reaction. We also have AS in our family other than my DS who was diagnosed with AS. DH, his brother, their father, my mother and both my brothers all have AS characteristics and I'm pretty certain would be diagnosed with AS if the diagnosis existed when they were children. Their AS symptoms are much worse in every way than my DS's.

My brother-in-law is the college professor described earlier on this thread. Despite the AS, my DH, his brother and their father all attended the same Ivy and graduate schools, became gainfully employed and lead pretty normal lives. Of the three, grandpa has the worst symptoms and the AS seems to be pretty diluted when it comes to DS although enough to give him an AS diagnosis by everyone who has ever evaluated him including the aforementioned developmental pediatrician, neuropsychs, OT, SLPs, etc.

My mother and one of my brothers are highly gifted in math... were math prodigies. My mother is worse than my brother when it comes to AS symptoms. Everyone was an academic superstar without IEPs or supports.

So that's been my experience with AS: I don't think of AS as "quirky" (hate that term actually) - it's my "normal." So I choose to believe my son is perfectly capable of attending the same Ivy as his forbears with all the understanding, supports, and IEP since he hasn't shown me anything so far that shows that he won't be able to. Let a parent dream...

Everybody's AS experience is different. Sometimes its hard to accept for those whose AS experience is starkly more darker, more challenging... who have a hard time reaching "a normal life" with college, a job, and a family.

I'm glad your family with AS did so well.

But for those who have family members who didn't skate on by easily, I think they need to know that they are not alone and that for many people with AS, it doesn't come so easily and the endings aren't as ... the endings sometimes are not Ivy league and for those parents, i think they need to know, thats okay...

ITA. It is different for every family. I should add that that in addition to AS - where my family members do well - the other disease that runs in our family is schizophrenia and not the misdiagnosed childhood schizophrenia that is probably ASD kind but the seemingly perfectly normal kid until they hit late teens when they start hearing voices. Thankfully, no one has had both AS/ASD AND schizophrenia: so if given a choice I'll take ASD anyday. The family members who had schizophrenia did not lead normal lives, far far from it, so I understand what you are talking about. You hope for the best anyway.

Schizophrenia and ASD and bipolar disorder are likely to share some genes in common.
http://www.boston.com/news/science/blogs/science-in-mind/2013/02/27/autism-schizophrenia-and-other-psychiatric-disorders-share-genetic-underpinnings/I5Rdy7NikMlFvTe8d9BXoL/blog.html

In my family, the things that run with the ASD are: ADHD, depression, bipolar mood disorder, dyslexia, dysgraphia, addiction, alcoholism.

Bipolar is especially disabling in my family. I'd take a kid with an ASD over a kid who develops bipolar any day of the week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love the way everyone here is dismissing AS. As the parent and sibling of people with AS I can tell you that cute and quirky becomes something very different in adults. And the demands of holding a job are very difficult for many people with AS.

As for "labels", a correct diagnosis does far more than get your DC treatment, it gives your DC an understanding of himself and why he is the way he is. People with AS have elevated rates of depression and suicide for a reason. My DS has grown up knowing his diagnosis, and not being defined by it, he thinks he's no big deal. And when his AS causes challenges, he knows why. I know from my siblings experience, not having a diagnosis, how incredibly important that is.

Also keep in mind that elementary school is the golden age for kids with AS. The ones who seem to be doing so well can encounter great difficulties in high school and as they go off to college, if they go off to college.

I hope you are being tongue in cheek when you say you expect your DC to attend the same Ivy as his parents. I have a senior and can tell you how much pressure this creates for any kid.

Nope. Perfectly serious but then our developmental pediatrician had the same reaction. We also have AS in our family other than my DS who was diagnosed with AS. DH, his brother, their father, my mother and both my brothers all have AS characteristics and I'm pretty certain would be diagnosed with AS if the diagnosis existed when they were children. Their AS symptoms are much worse in every way than my DS's.

My brother-in-law is the college professor described earlier on this thread. Despite the AS, my DH, his brother and their father all attended the same Ivy and graduate schools, became gainfully employed and lead pretty normal lives. Of the three, grandpa has the worst symptoms and the AS seems to be pretty diluted when it comes to DS although enough to give him an AS diagnosis by everyone who has ever evaluated him including the aforementioned developmental pediatrician, neuropsychs, OT, SLPs, etc.

My mother and one of my brothers are highly gifted in math... were math prodigies. My mother is worse than my brother when it comes to AS symptoms. Everyone was an academic superstar without IEPs or supports.

So that's been my experience with AS: I don't think of AS as "quirky" (hate that term actually) - it's my "normal." So I choose to believe my son is perfectly capable of attending the same Ivy as his forbears with all the understanding, supports, and IEP since he hasn't shown me anything so far that shows that he won't be able to. Let a parent dream...

I think you missed the point. It's not that expecting your DC to attend your alma mater is too much pressure if he has AS, it's that expecting your DC to attend your alma mater is too much pressure period. It's much harder to get into elite schools than it was 15 or 20 years ago; even for double-legacies it's a crap shoot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I think you missed the point. It's not that expecting your DC to attend your alma mater is too much pressure if he has AS, it's that expecting your DC to attend your alma mater is too much pressure period. It's much harder to get into elite schools than it was 15 or 20 years ago; even for double-legacies it's a crap shoot.

I'm well aware of all that and we wouldn't want DC to apply if the school (any school) wasn't a good "fit". DC is a double legacy and will get preferance under development too so not that much of a crap shoot. I actually hope that DC will go to the same undergrad as one of my brothers rather than any Ivy.

Look, I agree with you it's a fine line between expecting too much and expecting too little especially when it comes to kids like ours. One can only do their best...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think you missed the point. It's not that expecting your DC to attend your alma mater is too much pressure if he has AS, it's that expecting your DC to attend your alma mater is too much pressure period. It's much harder to get into elite schools than it was 15 or 20 years ago; even for double-legacies it's a crap shoot.

I'm well aware of all that and we wouldn't want DC to apply if the school (any school) wasn't a good "fit". DC is a double legacy and will get preferance under development too so not that much of a crap shoot. I actually hope that DC will go to the same undergrad as one of my brothers rather than any Ivy.

Look, I agree with you it's a fine line between expecting too much and expecting too little especially when it comes to kids like ours. One can only do their best...

One should be doing their best when it comes to their child's college, one's child should be driving the process. (I have a junior and am beginning to see the damage done by parental expectations on DC's classmates.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think you missed the point. It's not that expecting your DC to attend your alma mater is too much pressure if he has AS, it's that expecting your DC to attend your alma mater is too much pressure period. It's much harder to get into elite schools than it was 15 or 20 years ago; even for double-legacies it's a crap shoot.

I'm well aware of all that and we wouldn't want DC to apply if the school (any school) wasn't a good "fit". DC is a double legacy and will get preferance under development too so not that much of a crap shoot. I actually hope that DC will go to the same undergrad as one of my brothers rather than any Ivy.

Look, I agree with you it's a fine line between expecting too much and expecting too little especially when it comes to kids like ours. One can only do their best...

One should be doing their best when it comes to their child's college, one's child should be driving the process. (I have a junior and am beginning to see the damage done by parental expectations on DC's classmates.)

I'm familiar with parental pressure: My brothers (and I) all attended ivy or equivalent despite not getting any support or IEPs for AS, not being legacies, and being immigrants whose first language is not English. And very few get that far without having pushy parents or parents who don't have very high expectations.

I hope I can find a balance... My kid will have it (much) easier. Completely different circumstances and he gets a ton of support including a diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

You don't have a balance. Your child is very young and you are already "expecting" him to go to an ivy league school. Perhaps you are comforting yourself over his diagnosis with this idea but it isn't healthy. of course it is possible that he will end up at an ivy league school but it is very, very unlikely and your expectations will not help him and can do damage.

I did not have any parental pressure or expectations and I went to an ivy league school. My children will not, I believe. My NT child who is a junior has very specific, other plans and my DC with AS has not interest and, though very intelligent, needs a different environment.

Your parenting is not measured by where your children go to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don't have a balance. Your child is very young and you are already "expecting" him to go to an ivy league school. Perhaps you are comforting yourself over his diagnosis with this idea but it isn't healthy. of course it is possible that he will end up at an ivy league school but it is very, very unlikely and your expectations will not help him and can do damage.
I did not have any parental pressure or expectations and I went to an ivy league school. My children will not, I believe. My NT child who is a junior has very specific, other plans and my DC with AS has not interest and, though very intelligent, needs a different environment.

Your parenting is not measured by where your children go to college.

I don't know why you feel the need to tell me that my expectations are "unhealthy" and will harm my child: My child is young so why lower my expectations simply b/c of a diagnosis? Like you said, it's far in the future. There has been no indication why I should lower my expectations. You seem to be saying that since my child has AS - I should give up hoping that he does as well as similar people in my family.

When DS got the AS diagnosis our developmental pediatrician told us to "lower our expections" simply b/c of the diagnosis. While I respect and like our developmental pediatrician, I will "lower my expectations" when my child shows me that I need to lower them. For now, DC is healthy and happy: I measure my parenting by that.

[Anonymous]

A college other than the ivy league is not lowering your expectations. Thats my point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A college other than the ivy league is not lowering your expectations. Thats my point.

College is many many yrs away... honestly, it's not occurred to me since it's so far away but maybe it's more immediate to you. I agree, there are lots of (fine) colleges besides the ivy league.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't have a balance. Your child is very young and you are already "expecting" him to go to an ivy league school. Perhaps you are comforting yourself over his diagnosis with this idea but it isn't healthy. of course it is possible that he will end up at an ivy league school but it is very, very unlikely and your expectations will not help him and can do damage.
I did not have any parental pressure or expectations and I went to an ivy league school. My children will not, I believe. My NT child who is a junior has very specific, other plans and my DC with AS has not interest and, though very intelligent, needs a different environment.

Your parenting is not measured by where your children go to college.

I don't know why you feel the need to tell me that my expectations are "unhealthy" and will harm my child: My child is young so why lower my expectations simply b/c of a diagnosis? Like you said, it's far in the future. There has been no indication why I should lower my expectations. You seem to be saying that since my child has AS - I should give up hoping that he does as well as similar people in my family.

When DS got the AS diagnosis our developmental pediatrician told us to "lower our expections" simply b/c of the diagnosis. While I respect and like our developmental pediatrician, I will "lower my expectations" when my child shows me that I need to lower them. For now, DC is healthy and happy: I measure my parenting by that.

I agree with the ivy mom. In a way, its about not putting pressure to perform but also not limiting them by already saying, "there's no way you'll make it"

It seems like that is the attitude often.

And really, who knows how far a kid can go with love and support? That shouldn't be limited b/c of a dx, imho.

I am now focusing on all the things my kid *can* do and its amazing how that perspective changes things -- i'm way more hopeful and optimistic now about the future.

I don't know what the future entails for my son, but I can only imagine its bright, though i am aware it won't be easy, cause life ain't ever easy...

Off my soapbox now

[Anonymous]

There's a great book by Deirdre V. Lovecky called: Gifted Children with AD/HD, Asperger Syndrome, and Other Learning Deficits." It's full of interesting case studies, and very detailed in differentiating gifted/ADD from gifted/Asperger's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's a great book by Deirdre V. Lovecky called: Gifted Children with AD/HD, Asperger Syndrome, and Other Learning Deficits." It's full of interesting case studies, and very detailed in differentiating gifted/ADD from gifted/Asperger's.

Thanks for the rec!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't have a balance. Your child is very young and you are already "expecting" him to go to an ivy league school. Perhaps you are comforting yourself over his diagnosis with this idea but it isn't healthy. of course it is possible that he will end up at an ivy league school but it is very, very unlikely and your expectations will not help him and can do damage.
I did not have any parental pressure or expectations and I went to an ivy league school. My children will not, I believe. My NT child who is a junior has very specific, other plans and my DC with AS has not interest and, though very intelligent, needs a different environment.

Your parenting is not measured by where your children go to college.

I don't know why you feel the need to tell me that my expectations are "unhealthy" and will harm my child: My child is young so why lower my expectations simply b/c of a diagnosis? Like you said, it's far in the future. There has been no indication why I should lower my expectations. You seem to be saying that since my child has AS - I should give up hoping that he does as well as similar people in my family.

When DS got the AS diagnosis our developmental pediatrician told us to "lower our expections" simply b/c of the diagnosis. While I respect and like our developmental pediatrician, I will "lower my expectations" when my child shows me that I need to lower them. For now, DC is healthy and happy: I measure my parenting by that.

NP here. I haven't responded yet because I have such mixed feelings about what you say. I am also in a sort of similar circumstance, family history at Ivy League schools and a 2E kid. ADHD in my child's case. I also know that there are plenty of kids at every school with Asperger's and ADHD. One of them may eventually be yours--of course you can work towards that. I truly hope that your child experiences all the success you expect.

I did want to say, though, that I think you should be careful about assuming that life is simply easier these days due to the extra support. There are differences in the way school has evolved in general that can make things very challenging for a child with social issues. There is overall a greater emphasis, for example, on group work and creative thinking and explaining process, to name a few things that come immediately to mind. So my second grader, who can do incredibly advanced math computations in his head, might only get half credit because in the part where it says, "explain how you got the answer," he writes "because I know it." Other kids might get very distracted or anxious in group work. I know in class, mine gets totally lost in the word part of word problems, though at home he loves them. My child is working hard on these challenges and improving. In the long run, maybe these changes will make our kids more balanced and, if that is the case, then it is all a good thing. But where I think that in my math-facts/memorization-oriented grammar school of the 70s and 80s, my child would have really stood out as a powerhouse in math, he ends up as a fairly "average" student (really good at some stuff and really bad at others!). It takes testing and a very interested teacher to notice that he is very capable. He certainly doesn't think of himself as any kind of math prodigy the way I think a kid like him would have back in my day. All kids are different and yours may excel at everything. I just don't want you to assume that everything is the same plus more support.

My other more emotional reaction to what you are saying... I think it is always important, with any child, to have high expectations, supporting and challenging the child as needed. But, for me, part of the process of coming to terms with having a child with special needs has been adjusting in a profound way what I consider an expectation... and what I consider victory. I know that I celebrate moments and cherish experiences that are banal and meaningless to parents of typical kids. I am not a rose-colored glasses kind of person. I think that it is incredibly hard to be the parent of a special needs child but this--being given the opportunity to take pleasure and pride in, say, watching your child a child make a real friend--is one of the incredible gifts. And these moments have made me see some of my former expectations as banal and meaningless. I admit, I don't let go of them completely but, having been through so much with my child already, I honestly no longer care one bit where he goes to college.