Which is "worse", major ADHD or minor Aspergers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^For my kid "labeling" has been great. He has an IEP and loves going to school which was not the case prior the the label/IEP. With supports and services, everyone says we have a different child, engaged, happy, with friends. Even our educational consultant who has observed him at school prior to the IEP and recently is amazed at the amount of progress DS has made. So for us, the "label" has only been beneficial.

And I know dozens for whom the label was hurtful. My son included.

In what way was it hurtful?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess I don't understand the question. Your child will still be the same child, with the same behaviors, same exact child -- no matter what the diagnosis. So who cares, on an academic level, which is "worse." It won't change your experience.

I think I can understand somewhat where the OP is coming from. A diagnosis may imply a certain prognosis. But these two are spectrum disorders and therefore the prognosis really depends on the individual case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^For my kid "labeling" has been great. He has an IEP and loves going to school which was not the case prior the the label/IEP. With supports and services, everyone says we have a different child, engaged, happy, with friends. Even our educational consultant who has observed him at school prior to the IEP and recently is amazed at the amount of progress DS has made. So for us, the "label" has only been beneficial.

And I know dozens for whom the label was hurtful. My son included.

In what way was it hurtful?

+1. Really dozens? A correct diagnosis and appropriate IEP hurtful?!? That's hard to believe.

I'm the 1st poster quoted and I will add that since my son's diagnosis of AS and an IEP, most of the feedback I get from his teachers is all along the lines of: "He's doing great" and how smart DS is. A complete change from when we did not have a diagnosis and wondering whether he could stay at a mainstream school.

[Anonymous]

What professional told you it's severe ADHD or mild Asperger's? That doesn't even make sense. Either he's highly impaired by the disorder, moderately impaired or mildly.

Yes, the 2 can be co-morbid, but to say it's one or the other is strange. I could see saying it's mild ADHD or mild Asperger's or moderate ASD with comorbid ADHD, but have never heard of a professional speculating it's either severe or mild. Forget the 2nd part.

To 9:22, that would make sense, but the prognosis is poorer for severe adhd if the child doesn't improve with intervention than it is for a child who has mild anything. The OP seems to think a child with mild Asperger's is some how much more impaired than a kid with a severe disorder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I understand where you are right now and just trying to run all the possibilities through your head. But these are tough questions for a lot of reasons and people often feel hurt by them. Keep in mind that there are many parents of kids with whatever gets voted "worst" here. We are used to being judged and criticized by others and we like to feel supported on this board.

It is also an impossible question because none of these conditions exist in isolation. I don't just mean that there are comorbid conditions (learning disabilities, anxiety, etc) but a child's innate temperament, IQ, other interests and skills, can make all the difference. There truly is no way to isolate the one issue and make a prediction. Take my child: ADHD (combined type, but fidgety rather than a big mover... inattentive but also a hyperfocused or academics), dysgraphia, highly anxious, introverted, stubborn... highly persistent, courageous, funny, imaginative, and high IQ. He has both incredible gifts and great challenges. Things are both easier and much harder for him than for most kids. He suffers a great deal and also finds great joy in life. We have had some family life events that have been very, very hard for him but are home is also very stable and supportive.

I honestly don't know how you can take an average of my child's experiences and qualities and compare it to those of another. Again, I understand that you are just trying to make sense of the future but I think you have to just stay open to what is coming, nourish your child's strengths and support your child's weaknesses. Best of luck to you and your child.

OP here. I deeply appologize if anyone felt hurt by my question. You are so completely right that I'm trying to get some kind of concrete (and over-simplified) read on something that is far too complex and nuanced for that. You're right. I'm scared and grasping for answers. You are also right that whatever "it" is co-exists will ALL of my son's strengths and weaknesses and the sum total of all of this characteristics is more powerful than any one particular diagnosis. This actually gives me great comfort, so thank you for that. It allows me to focus on all of the elements that comprise his wonderful quirkiness and not just some to-be-determined, one piece of him, label.

[Anonymous]

Whatever label helps him the most, is the best. We rejected an ADHD label and got another opinion because our son fits aspergers better... And the services have allowed him to thrive.

There is no "worst"... There is only a best for your child.

No one, not even the most expert of experts, knows the "right" answer. The field of diagnosis for our kids is very uncertain. So focus on the results you want and what your kid needs to thrive.

Good luck

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think my preschool son have one or the other (and yes i know he could have both.) He's getting services but no diagnosis yet.

Until we can get a diagnosis I keep rooting for ADHD, since I myself have ADD and am pretty happy and feel like I could teach him to navigate life with ADD. But his ADD (if that's what it is) looks different from mine. Could be that it's the H, which I don't have. Could be that isn't not ADHD, though we have had some professionals unoffically suggest it may be.

But as I read more abot both ADHD and Aspergers I'm developing a theory that it almost doesn't matter because severe ADHD can be as "bad" as mild Aspergers. In the world of spectrums do these cross in terms of what's "harder"? Is it just that Aspergers is more of an unknown to me?

Thanks for any insight.

"Mild Aspergers" - there is no such diagnosis. As opposed to what? "Heavy Aspergers"? "Severe Aspergers"?

Some people would say "high-functioning autism" but there is no "mild aspergers" - I don't even know what that means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^For my kid "labeling" has been great. He has an IEP and loves going to school which was not the case prior the the label/IEP. With supports and services, everyone says we have a different child, engaged, happy, with friends. Even our educational consultant who has observed him at school prior to the IEP and recently is amazed at the amount of progress DS has made. So for us, the "label" has only been beneficial.

And I know dozens for whom the label was hurtful. My son included.

In what way was it hurtful?

+1. Really dozens? A correct diagnosis and appropriate IEP hurtful?!? That's hard to believe.

I'm the 1st poster quoted and I will add that since my son's diagnosis of AS and an IEP, most of the feedback I get from his teachers is all along the lines of: "He's doing great" and how smart DS is. A complete change from when we did not have a diagnosis and wondering whether he could stay at a mainstream school.

No, it's very easy to believe. A lot of people out there in the big wide world stigmatize labels. Are they necessary for services? Often, particularly so for reimbursement, but that doesn't mean everyone puts on the mantel with pride, joy, or nary a thought to the consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

+1. Really dozens? A correct diagnosis and appropriate IEP hurtful?!? That's hard to believe.

I'm the 1st poster quoted and I will add that since my son's diagnosis of AS and an IEP, most of the feedback I get from his teachers is all along the lines of: "He's doing great" and how smart DS is. A complete change from when we did not have a diagnosis and wondering whether he could stay at a mainstream school.

No, it's very easy to believe. A lot of people out there in the big wide world stigmatize labels. Are they necessary for services? Often, particularly so for reimbursement, but that doesn't mean everyone puts on the mantel with pride, joy, or nary a thought to the consequences.

I'm sorry that you and your child have felt so much stigma over what is a medical diagnosis. In a perfect world there should be no more stigma to AS and ASDs then there are for things like heart disease and high blood pressure. But unfortunately, we all know not all diseases and developmental issues are not all considered equal. Look at this thread and also how we treat /feel about mental illness vs things like diabetes.

We all have to do what we feel is the best for our child.

For my son with AS, having a diagnosis and IEP has made a world of difference, all for the better with no downside (I posted previously that I expect DS to attend the same Ivy as his parents) but I realize that is not always the case for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have an adult brother with pretty severe ADHD. It's what would've been called ADD in the 1980s -- no hyperactivity whatsover; but -severely- impaired ability to "attend" anything at all, such as a job! College! Paying rent on time! Picking up your girlfriend at the airport, etc etc etc. High IQ though.

I have a son with just the slightest hint of Aspergers. At age 9, the perseverations have all but gone away and just the social piece and rigidity remain. High IQ.

My personal vote, based on a data set of exactly two people, is that severe ADHD is a worse condition lifelong than barely-there ASD.

This is my sense as well.

[Anonymous]

Love the way everyone here is dismissing AS. As the parent and sibling of people with AS I can tell you that cute and quirky becomes something very different in adults. And the demands of holding a job are very difficult for many people with AS.

As for "labels", a correct diagnosis does far more than get your DC treatment, it gives your DC an understanding of himself and why he is the way he is. People with AS have elevated rates of depression and suicide for a reason. My DS has grown up knowing his diagnosis, and not being defined by it, he thinks he's no big deal. And when his AS causes challenges, he knows why. I know from my siblings experience, not having a diagnosis, how incredibly important that is.

Also keep in mind that elementary school is the golden age for kids with AS. The ones who seem to be doing so well can encounter great difficulties in high school and as they go off to college, if they go off to college.

I hope you are being tongue in cheek when you say you expect your DC to attend the same Ivy as his parents. I have a senior and can tell you how much pressure this creates for any kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Love the way everyone here is dismissing AS. As the parent and sibling of people with AS I can tell you that cute and quirky becomes something very different in adults. And the demands of holding a job are very difficult for many people with AS.

As for "labels", a correct diagnosis does far more than get your DC treatment, it gives your DC an understanding of himself and why he is the way he is. People with AS have elevated rates of depression and suicide for a reason. My DS has grown up knowing his diagnosis, and not being defined by it, he thinks he's no big deal. And when his AS causes challenges, he knows why. I know from my siblings experience, not having a diagnosis, how incredibly important that is.

Also keep in mind that elementary school is the golden age for kids with AS. The ones who seem to be doing so well can encounter great difficulties in high school and as they go off to college, if they go off to college.

I hope you are being tongue in cheek when you say you expect your DC to attend the same Ivy as his parents. I have a senior and can tell you how much pressure this creates for any kid.

Nope. Perfectly serious but then our developmental pediatrician had the same reaction. We also have AS in our family other than my DS who was diagnosed with AS. DH, his brother, their father, my mother and both my brothers all have AS characteristics and I'm pretty certain would be diagnosed with AS if the diagnosis existed when they were children. Their AS symptoms are much worse in every way than my DS's.

My brother-in-law is the college professor described earlier on this thread. Despite the AS, my DH, his brother and their father all attended the same Ivy and graduate schools, became gainfully employed and lead pretty normal lives. Of the three, grandpa has the worst symptoms and the AS seems to be pretty diluted when it comes to DS although enough to give him an AS diagnosis by everyone who has ever evaluated him including the aforementioned developmental pediatrician, neuropsychs, OT, SLPs, etc.

My mother and one of my brothers are highly gifted in math... were math prodigies. My mother is worse than my brother when it comes to AS symptoms. Everyone was an academic superstar without IEPs or supports.

So that's been my experience with AS: I don't think of AS as "quirky" (hate that term actually) - it's my "normal." So I choose to believe my son is perfectly capable of attending the same Ivy as his forbears with all the understanding, supports, and IEP since he hasn't shown me anything so far that shows that he won't be able to. Let a parent dream...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whatever label helps him the most, is the best. We rejected an ADHD label and got another opinion because our son fits aspergers better... And the services have allowed him to thrive.

There is no "worst"... There is only a best for your child.

No one, not even the most expert of experts, knows the "right" answer. The field of diagnosis for our kids is very uncertain. So focus on the results you want and what your kid needs to thrive.

Good luck

Well Said! +1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love the way everyone here is dismissing AS. As the parent and sibling of people with AS I can tell you that cute and quirky becomes something very different in adults. And the demands of holding a job are very difficult for many people with AS.

As for "labels", a correct diagnosis does far more than get your DC treatment, it gives your DC an understanding of himself and why he is the way he is. People with AS have elevated rates of depression and suicide for a reason. My DS has grown up knowing his diagnosis, and not being defined by it, he thinks he's no big deal. And when his AS causes challenges, he knows why. I know from my siblings experience, not having a diagnosis, how incredibly important that is.

Also keep in mind that elementary school is the golden age for kids with AS. The ones who seem to be doing so well can encounter great difficulties in high school and as they go off to college, if they go off to college.

I hope you are being tongue in cheek when you say you expect your DC to attend the same Ivy as his parents. I have a senior and can tell you how much pressure this creates for any kid.

Nope. Perfectly serious but then our developmental pediatrician had the same reaction. We also have AS in our family other than my DS who was diagnosed with AS. DH, his brother, their father, my mother and both my brothers all have AS characteristics and I'm pretty certain would be diagnosed with AS if the diagnosis existed when they were children. Their AS symptoms are much worse in every way than my DS's.

My brother-in-law is the college professor described earlier on this thread. Despite the AS, my DH, his brother and their father all attended the same Ivy and graduate schools, became gainfully employed and lead pretty normal lives. Of the three, grandpa has the worst symptoms and the AS seems to be pretty diluted when it comes to DS although enough to give him an AS diagnosis by everyone who has ever evaluated him including the aforementioned developmental pediatrician, neuropsychs, OT, SLPs, etc.

My mother and one of my brothers are highly gifted in math... were math prodigies. My mother is worse than my brother when it comes to AS symptoms. Everyone was an academic superstar without IEPs or supports.

So that's been my experience with AS: I don't think of AS as "quirky" (hate that term actually) - it's my "normal." So I choose to believe my son is perfectly capable of attending the same Ivy as his forbears with all the understanding, supports, and IEP since he hasn't shown me anything so far that shows that he won't be able to. Let a parent dream...

Everybody's AS experience is different. Sometimes its hard to accept for those whose AS experience is starkly more darker, more challenging... who have a hard time reaching "a normal life" with college, a job, and a family.

I'm glad your family with AS did so well.

But for those who have family members who didn't skate on by easily, I think they need to know that they are not alone and that for many people with AS, it doesn't come so easily and the endings aren't as ... the endings sometimes are not Ivy league and for those parents, i think they need to know, thats okay...

[Anonymous]

I have one of my each. My youngest has ADHD. My oldest has mild ASD.

The oldest with mild ASD was much more challenging as a baby and younger child. He didn't sleep through the night until he was 17 months old. He didn't potty train until he was 4. He threw incredible tantrums. He had severe delays in receptive, expressive and pragmatic language. He was extremely disruptive in his (private school) classroom during K, 1st and 2nd grade. He got kicked out of daycamp. He got kicked out of swim lessons. He slapped a teacher in the back of the head. (She had it coming, but it's still not okay.) We had to watch him like a hawk because he continued to mouth objects and put them in his mouth (like a toddler) until he was almost 9. We did counseling, 4+ years of speech therapy, two summers of daily social skills groups, and parent mediated behavioral training. He is now in 4th grade and doing very well. He is a reasonably outgoing, bright, charming young man. He has normal(ish) speech and okay social skills. He has friends. He is happy. He is in a mainstream class at public school and getting straight A's. He manages his own activities of daily living, including organizing his homework.

The youngest with ADHD was a super easy baby and toddler and younger child. He slept through the night at 6 weeks. He was mellow, outgoing and sweet. He didn't have problems until he started first grade. He can't stay in his seat. He can't pay attention. He bugs the other kids. He is completely disorganized. I now spend a lot of time trying to get him to do everything: brush his teeth, take a shower, get dressed, do his homework, take out the recycling, clean up his room, whatever. Nothing gets done because he gets distracted too easily and forgets what he was doing. He has the working memory of a gnat. He is completely charming and sweet, but super challenging as an elementary student.

I couldn't say that 1 is easier than the other. It depends entirely on what age you are talking about.