When your kid asks, are you "middle class," "upper-middle," something else?

[Anonymous]

13:16- you get my vote. It is a problem when small children think it is "normal" to read Vogue and covet things; or realize that their friends are comparing who rents and who owns their house outright. Little children should not be concerned with and consumed with such matters. Certainly not to the extent adults here are!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tell my kids they are lucky. They don't need to know any more about our financial situation than that, nor should it matter.

I disagree. I want my kids to know the financial facts of life, but maybe your kids are younger than mine are. My parents transferred a lot of their money angst to me, unnecessarily. I want my kids to know we have enough money.

+1
I spent a large portion of childhood worried about money.
I'd tell the kids the truth, but emphasize being grateful. We don't focus on material items either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tell my kids they are lucky. They don't need to know any more about our financial situation than that, nor should it matter.

+1. We never discuss our financial situation with our children, and they should not judge others (or feel judged themselves) by what "class" they are.

+1 I am the long-winded poster above. My kids definitely don't know our HHI or the price of our house, etc and that is not something I would tell them or for them to be blabbing to people.

I bolded your one statement because this is what my parents taught me and this is what they SHOWED me. They treated everyone with dignity and the same level of respect from the janitor on up. When my dad retired (I work in same agency) I had people from the custodial staff, to the clerks, on up come up and tell me stories of things he did for them and how he knew about their lives and asked about them and of course always had one of his hilarious jokes. It is now 7 years later and as soon as I walk through the door the security guard asks after my dad and tells me to tell him 'hello', etc. We were taught we were no better than anyone just because of our $ or occupation, etc.

My kids see the way we help out the people that help us out in tiny ways throughout the day--but no less important. The way we donate things to people in need. The way we address everyone with the same level of respect. This is so important. If you are one of those people that doesn't address the checkout clerk, the parking attendant, thumbs your nose at the custodian, barks orders at your cleaning lady and talks about them behind their back in front of your kids---you are going to raise jerks just like yourself. You are no better just because you have more $ or won the birth lottery.

Why do you assume that ignorance of one's financial standing leads to good manners? Poor logic here. Your father knew exactly how much he made, and I'm guessing he had a pretty good idea of what janitors and security guards made relative to his income. Nonetheless, he treated people well.

Parents can speak honestly and matter of factly about their family's income/SES with children in an age appropriate manner. There is no reason why you shouldn't expect your children to behave kindly and responsibly--regardless of one's SES.

[Anonymous]

I tell my child we are comfortable, as well. We have a roof over our heads, food in our bellies and clothes on our backs.Anything else is just gravy. Considering my late-30s BIL and his kids live at home with his parents, I have a pretty good example of how we're doing well in our own family. Luckily, my kid's friends mostly live in our neighborhood, so there isn't a lot of comparison of houses - maybe just of who has the most American Girl dolls (my kid has none, btw - what a freaking rip-off).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are neither poor nor rich. We are somewhere in the middle but pretty high end of the middle. We have about a B in the middle class. We would be referred to "upper-middle class".

I think this is an excellent answer as long as it is age-appropriate (to be determined by the parents).

However, for those people who want to use actual class terminology, the various terms are somewhat defined. Lower class, middle class, upper-middle class and upper class are all terms that are relative to the national or local standards. There are many people who define them by comparison with what others, including their families in the past, were able to afford and that isn't what the definition is based on.

According to information from the Census Bureau and the Dept of Labor, the median income in the US is approximately $50-60K. In the DC metro area, that is closer to $75-90K. The poverty level for 2012 was $11,170 for a single person and $23,050 for a family of four. Middle class is generally from about the 25th to 75th percentiles (the middle 50% of the earning income). Lower class is those below middle class (i.e. below 25th percentile) and above the poverty level. Upper class is those above the 75th percentile. And the rich are those in the top X% (varies by who you ask, top 1%, 2%, 5%?).

On a national (local) level:
So, roughly, those making under $23K are poor.
Those making $23-40K ($23-60K) are lower class.
Those making $40-$75K ($60-$125K) are middle class.
You can approximate lower middle class to $40-50K ($60-80K), middle class as $50-65K ($80-105K) and upper middle class as $65-75K ($105-125K)
Those making over $75K ($125K) are upper class.

If you use the top 1% level, then those making $300K ($365K) are rich/wealthy.

Yes, the buying power of the middle class has dropped so that the middle class can no longer afford as much as it used to in terms of relative buying power. However, that doesn't dispute the fact that they are the middle income earning population of those bringing home paychecks. Those who feel middle class on $200K or $250K or whatever you want to set are deluded by the lack of buying power, but they still outearn 90-95% of the nation including those in the local region. There is no way that those making in the top 5% of the nation or local region are middle class. They're upper class but not wealthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tell him we are working class because we work very hard for what we have and that is all that matter.

This is asinine and an insult to the actual working class.

That is exactly what I meant when I said working class is a specific thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Upper class earner. I tell my son not expect the same lifestyle as an adult that I have been able to provide for him. Sadly, the opportunities will not be there for him.

[Anonymous]

Wow that is harsh. I'm sure you were handed opportunities, but you really think your kid isn't capable of making his own?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tell my kids they are lucky. They don't need to know any more about our financial situation than that, nor should it matter.

+1. We never discuss our financial situation with our children, and they should not judge others (or feel judged themselves) by what "class" they are.

+1 I am the long-winded poster above. My kids definitely don't know our HHI or the price of our house, etc and that is not something I would tell them or for them to be blabbing to people.

I bolded your one statement because this is what my parents taught me and this is what they SHOWED me. They treated everyone with dignity and the same level of respect from the janitor on up. When my dad retired (I work in same agency) I had people from the custodial staff, to the clerks, on up come up and tell me stories of things he did for them and how he knew about their lives and asked about them and of course always had one of his hilarious jokes. It is now 7 years later and as soon as I walk through the door the security guard asks after my dad and tells me to tell him 'hello', etc. We were taught we were no better than anyone just because of our $ or occupation, etc.

My kids see the way we help out the people that help us out in tiny ways throughout the day--but no less important. The way we donate things to people in need. The way we address everyone with the same level of respect. This is so important. If you are one of those people that doesn't address the checkout clerk, the parking attendant, thumbs your nose at the custodian, barks orders at your cleaning lady and talks about them behind their back in front of your kids---you are going to raise jerks just like yourself. You are no better just because you have more $ or won the birth lottery.

PP, I am the one you quoted, and I loved your story. Our family is the same, and I couldn't imagine living my life any other way. Best to you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tell him we are working class because we work very hard for what we have and that is all that matter.

This is asinine and an insult to the actual working class.

That is exactly what I meant when I said working class is a specific thing.

I hear you. Just wanted to chime in a second voice of support. I mean, really.

[Anonymous]

Class is mostly how you treat others, and being nosy is indeed classless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I tell the kids we are poor. It lessens their expectations and builds character.

My parents did this, and they were not. I missed out on a few truly great experiences, because I never even asked my parents if I could participate out of fear of burdening them financially.

[Anonymous]

Don't be coy about who you are. If your kids are older than 10 years old and they google their friend's address, the house value will come up. (Wish that wasn't so, but it is) So when one friends house says 1.4M that is one thing and when it said 540K that is another. Don't underestimate your kids ability to find out who is "rich" and who isn't. Fb pictures of beach house and Caribbean vacation? What would you think?
Agree with above poster, but stress your values and that it is not done to rank people by money. Or buy everything just because (even if Susie does). Comfortable is the old fashioned word for what we would today call rich. Ie, multiple homes, ect. Definitely do not say you are working class because you work.
When you are not truthful with your kids, it does not give you an opportunity to help them to understand what it means to have money, to save money, and so on. Many moms and dads worked very hard to have the things we have today.
Please do not say you are poor at HHI 300. That is a bit insulting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Class is mostly how you treat others, and being nosy is indeed classless.

Yes and yes.

But the whole middle class, upper middle class, upper class talk is really about money distinctions.

My cut would be 100K or less, middle class. 100K to 999K, upper-middle. Anything above that would be upper.

[Anonymous]

middle class ends at 450k