Child killed by Neighborhood Watch captain while walking home

[Anonymous]

I"m not discussing guilt or innocence (although I believe he is guilty). My issue is that this POS hasn't even been arrested. In what world shouldn't this happen?

-He called 911 to report a "suspicious person"
-911 told him not to intervene and that police were on the way
-The man chose to exit his vehicle with his gun.
-An altercation enrsued (I can imagine that this teen told him to "eff off" which is probably what I would have told him. Blacks no longer need walking papers and we are free to walk wherever we please without having to explain our intentions to anybody).
-Somewhere in this altercation, the man pulled his gun and shot the teen

Again, in what world was this murderer not the aggressor?
OK, I think there should be an investigation, but this is a bit overblown. First, ignoring the 911 operator's instructions to not follow the kid, and exiting the car, while stupid actions that ultimately lead to this tragedy, are not criminal actions, and do not eliminate a self-defense argument if it otherwise would be appropriate. In other words, getting out of the car and yelling where the eff are you going does not make the shooter the aggressor. Second, the viability of self-defense depends entirely on what happened in the altercation. If the kid yelled eff you and was shot, clearly not self-defense. If he yelled eff you, the guy yelled eff you back, and the kid rushed towards him? It gets a little grayer. Most importantly, there are no witnesses, and for the most part the only thing the cops have is the account of the shooter. With nothing to contradict his story, it's not out of the world of possibility that the cops/DA coudl decide that a prosecution would be pointless. I'd guess at this point there will be an arrest because of the publicity, but absent a witness coming forward or some forensic evidence to contradict the shooter's story, I'm not sure a conviction is likely.

[Anonymous]

I"m not discussing guilt or innocence (although I believe he is guilty). My issue is that this POS hasn't even been arrested. In what world shouldn't this happen?

-He called 911 to report a "suspicious person"
-911 told him not to intervene and that police were on the way
-The man chose to exit his vehicle with his gun.
-An altercation enrsued (I can imagine that this teen told him to "eff off" which is probably what I would have told him. Blacks no longer need walking papers and we are free to walk wherever we please without having to explain our intentions to anybody).
-Somewhere in this altercation, the man pulled his gun and shot the teen

Again, in what world was this murderer not the aggressor?

OK, I think there should be an investigation, but this is a bit overblown. First, ignoring the 911 operator's instructions to not follow the kid, and exiting the car, while stupid actions that ultimately lead to this tragedy, are not criminal actions, and do not eliminate a self-defense argument if it otherwise would be appropriate. In other words, getting out of the car and yelling where the eff are you going does not make the shooter the aggressor. Second, the viability of self-defense depends entirely on what happened in the altercation. If the kid yelled eff you and was shot, clearly not self-defense. If he yelled eff you, the guy yelled eff you back, and the kid rushed towards him? It gets a little grayer. Most importantly, there are no witnesses, and for the most part the only thing the cops have is the account of the shooter. With nothing to contradict his story, it's not out of the world of possibility that the cops/DA coudl decide that a prosecution would be pointless. I'd guess at this point there will be an arrest because of the publicity, but absent a witness coming forward or some forensic evidence to contradict the shooter's story, I'm not sure a conviction is likely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am going to "bump" this article until Zimmerman is arrested.

Now, *that* would be belligerent, and I believe a violation of TOS here.

[Anonymous]

there are witnesses to the altercation. watch the video.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I"m not discussing guilt or innocence (although I believe he is guilty). My issue is that this POS hasn't even been arrested. In what world shouldn't this happen?

-He called 911 to report a "suspicious person"
-911 told him not to intervene and that police were on the way
-The man chose to exit his vehicle with his gun.
-An altercation enrsued (I can imagine that this teen told him to "eff off" which is probably what I would have told him. Blacks no longer need walking papers and we are free to walk wherever we please without having to explain our intentions to anybody).
-Somewhere in this altercation, the man pulled his gun and shot the teen

Again, in what world was this murderer not the aggressor?

OK, I think there should be an investigation, but this is a bit overblown. First, ignoring the 911 operator's instructions to not follow the kid, and exiting the car, while stupid actions that ultimately lead to this tragedy, are not criminal actions, and do not eliminate a self-defense argument if it otherwise would be appropriate. In other words, getting out of the car and yelling where the eff are you going does not make the shooter the aggressor. Second, the viability of self-defense depends entirely on what happened in the altercation. If the kid yelled eff you and was shot, clearly not self-defense. If he yelled eff you, the guy yelled eff you back, and the kid rushed towards him? It gets a little grayer. Most importantly, there are no witnesses, and for the most part the only thing the cops have is the account of the shooter. With nothing to contradict his story, it's not out of the world of possibility that the cops/DA coudl decide that a prosecution would be pointless. I'd guess at this point there will be an arrest because of the publicity, but absent a witness coming forward or some forensic evidence to contradict the shooter's story, I'm not sure a conviction is likely.

I'm sorry, but Zimmerman exiting his car is an act of aggression. He instigated this confrontation. Why didn't he leave his gun in the car?

It's being reported that there were multiple calls made to the police about a fight. These calls haven't been released to the family. Is this routine?

Sadly, this can easily turn into a case where Zimmerman gets off with committing murder. If this happens, I can only hope that street justice takes care of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I"m not discussing guilt or innocence (although I believe he is guilty). My issue is that this POS hasn't even been arrested. In what world shouldn't this happen?

-He called 911 to report a "suspicious person"
-911 told him not to intervene and that police were on the way
-The man chose to exit his vehicle with his gun.
-An altercation enrsued (I can imagine that this teen told him to "eff off" which is probably what I would have told him. Blacks no longer need walking papers and we are free to walk wherever we please without having to explain our intentions to anybody).
-Somewhere in this altercation, the man pulled his gun and shot the teen

Again, in what world was this murderer not the aggressor?

OK, I think there should be an investigation, but this is a bit overblown. First, ignoring the 911 operator's instructions to not follow the kid, and exiting the car, while stupid actions that ultimately lead to this tragedy, are not criminal actions, and do not eliminate a self-defense argument if it otherwise would be appropriate. In other words, getting out of the car and yelling where the eff are you going does not make the shooter the aggressor. Second, the viability of self-defense depends entirely on what happened in the altercation. If the kid yelled eff you and was shot, clearly not self-defense. If he yelled eff you, the guy yelled eff you back, and the kid rushed towards him? It gets a little grayer. Most importantly, there are no witnesses, and for the most part the only thing the cops have is the account of the shooter. With nothing to contradict his story, it's not out of the world of possibility that the cops/DA coudl decide that a prosecution would be pointless. I'd guess at this point there will be an arrest because of the publicity, but absent a witness coming forward or some forensic evidence to contradict the shooter's story, I'm not sure a conviction is likely.

I'm sorry, but Zimmerman exiting his car is an act of aggression. He instigated this confrontation. Why didn't he leave his gun in the car?

It's being reported that there were multiple calls made to the police about a fight. These calls haven't been released to the family. Is this routine?

Sadly, this can easily turn into a case where Zimmerman gets off with committing murder. If this happens, I can only hope that street justice takes care of this.

Yes. You are making a straw-man argument. Police don't share evidence with involved parties as a matter of policy.

Shocked you're advocating "street justice" after what happened. Shame on you.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry, but Zimmerman exiting his car is an act of aggression. He instigated this confrontation. Why didn't he leave his gun in the car?

It's being reported that there were multiple calls made to the police about a fight. These calls haven't been released to the family. Is this routine?

Sadly, this can easily turn into a case where Zimmerman gets off with committing murder. If this happens, I can only hope that street justice takes care of this.

Except it's not. If he got out of the car aggressively and rushed the kid, sure. But if he just got out and followed the kid? Nope. The details matter here. And unfortunately, per the video, no one saw how or why the fight started. As the the gun, he had a permit to carry - whether you agree with that or not, and I don't, he's under no obligation to leave it in his car.

My point is, I don't know what happened, and neither do you. So jumping up and down about how it would be is a travesty of justice if he's not convicted and "gets away with murder" is completely overblown. And I agree with a PP - hoping "street justice" takes care of this is particularly appalling in this case. You don't mind vigilante justice if you agree with the perpetrator? How consistent of you.

[Anonymous]

After the police told Zimmerman not to confront the boy, he should have backed away.

[Anonymous]

There would not have been a "fight" if there actually was one if Zimmerman had left the kid alone. If someone is following you in his car or on foot that is scary. Of course you would tell someone to leave you alone or f- off if you were a teenager.

It seems like Zimmerman is getting away with murder in this case. It's extremely sad and unjust.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:After the police told Zimmerman not to confront the boy, he should have backed away.

Imagine if the boy had been armed as well and had shot Zimmerman. Do you think he would be in custody right now? I am betting so, even though the police are claiming they didn't take Z into custody because he has a 4 year degree and clean record. Because, you know, being a college grad means you must not be a criminal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There would not have been a "fight" if there actually was one if Zimmerman had left the kid alone. If someone is following you in his car or on foot that is scary. Of course you would tell someone to leave you alone or f- off if you were a teenager.

It seems like Zimmerman is getting away with murder in this case. It's extremely sad and unjust.

Totally. If someone is following you, fight or flight kicks in. You would either run as fast as you can or stand your ground and fight. Poor Trayvon clearly had no clue that Zimmerman was not fighting fair since he was packing heat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm sorry, but Zimmerman exiting his car is an act of aggression. He instigated this confrontation. Why didn't he leave his gun in the car?

It's being reported that there were multiple calls made to the police about a fight. These calls haven't been released to the family. Is this routine?

Sadly, this can easily turn into a case where Zimmerman gets off with committing murder. If this happens, I can only hope that street justice takes care of this.

Except it's not. If he got out of the car aggressively and rushed the kid, sure. But if he just got out and followed the kid? Nope. The details matter here. And unfortunately, per the video, no one saw how or why the fight started. As the the gun, he had a permit to carry - whether you agree with that or not, and I don't, he's under no obligation to leave it in his car.

My point is, I don't know what happened, and neither do you. So jumping up and down about how it would be is a travesty of justice if he's not convicted and "gets away with murder" is completely overblown. And I agree with a PP - hoping "street justice" takes care of this is particularly appalling in this case. You don't mind vigilante justice if you agree with the perpetrator? How consistent of you.

Exactly. And we don't know which way it went. Why does your assumption trump my own?

If he got out of the car to follow the boy, which not just stay in the car to do that? Would accomplish the same goal except he wouldn't be in a position to engage in a altercation.

re: street justice. I meant more his father. I know as a mother that if someone killed my child and they got away, I couldn't rest until I took action. It might be wrong....I don't care. I will not allow someone to get away with gunning down my child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There would not have been a "fight" if there actually was one if Zimmerman had left the kid alone. If someone is following you in his car or on foot that is scary. Of course you would tell someone to leave you alone or f- off if you were a teenager.

It seems like Zimmerman is getting away with murder in this case. It's extremely sad and unjust.

Totally. If someone is following you, fight or flight kicks in. You would either run as fast as you can or stand your ground and fight. Poor Trayvon clearly had no clue that Zimmerman was not fighting fair since he was packing heat.

Agreed. If a man is following me in a car and then gets out, I'm already on the defense. I'm thinking he is up to something and might even be trying to kidnap me. Trayvon could've thought this guy was a predator looking to kidnap his next victim. In hindsight, we know the reason for Zimmerman's behavior. Unfortunately, Trayvon did not have that benefit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The vigilante needs to be charged with stalking and a violent hate crime. With the instructions from the police not to follow the child, the perp clearly singled out this child and ignored the explicit instructions from the police because of the child's race. That makes this hate crime and that is a federal charge, not a local charge. And the bigot needs to be arrested and charged. If the locals will not do it, it needs to be a federal case.

This article from the Miami Herald has a lot of details: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/08/2684419/shooting-mystery-miami-dade-teen.html
My favorite line is: "He had a gun, and Trayvon had Skittles," said Benjamin Crump, the family’s attorney. “We want justice.”

Benjamin Crump is a civil litigator who specializes in civil rights violations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm sorry, but Zimmerman exiting his car is an act of aggression. He instigated this confrontation. Why didn't he leave his gun in the car?

It's being reported that there were multiple calls made to the police about a fight. These calls haven't been released to the family. Is this routine?

Sadly, this can easily turn into a case where Zimmerman gets off with committing murder. If this happens, I can only hope that street justice takes care of this.

Except it's not. If he got out of the car aggressively and rushed the kid, sure. But if he just got out and followed the kid? Nope. The details matter here. And unfortunately, per the video, no one saw how or why the fight started. As the the gun, he had a permit to carry - whether you agree with that or not, and I don't, he's under no obligation to leave it in his car.

My point is, I don't know what happened, and neither do you. So jumping up and down about how it would be is a travesty of justice if he's not convicted and "gets away with murder" is completely overblown. And I agree with a PP - hoping "street justice" takes care of this is particularly appalling in this case. You don't mind vigilante justice if you agree with the perpetrator? How consistent of you.

Exactly. And we don't know which way it went. Why does your assumption trump my own?

If he got out of the car to follow the boy, which not just stay in the car to do that? Would accomplish the same goal except he wouldn't be in a position to engage in a altercation.

re: street justice. I meant more his father. I know as a mother that if someone killed my child and they got away, I couldn't rest until I took action. It might be wrong....I don't care. I will not allow someone to get away with gunning down my child.

not that pp, but I would say her assumption trumps your own b/c she is erring on the side of presuming innocence, which is something *we do in this country.*

I get that you are emotional about this. histrionic even. but some of us look at this and understand we don't know all the facts. it certainly looks bad, but the facts need to come out... that said, if in fact that cops aren't acting to let the facts come out, that is another set of problems that demands a human rights investigation by the Feds.

But it doesn't warrant "street justice."

Nor does it mean we should presume Zimmerman is guilty. He's innocent until proven guilty. That isn't just something to which we pay lip service, regardless of the skin color of the parties involved.