Circumcision - yay or nay?
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Anonymous
16:27 has a long thoughtful post, part of which explains why this makes no sense. |
Anonymous
| I have two sons, my oldest is circumcised and my youngest is not. They are 13 years apart and had I known then what I know now, both would be intact. The locker room argument is not valid, as women do you compare boobs in the locker room? Now, consider comparing your lady bits....doesn't happen. There is no legitimate reason for doing it other than preference. As in, the parent's preference. I have 2 older brothers who are and they both wish they were not. |
Anonymous
The pain being "negligable" [sic] is complete bullshit. I am a postpartum nurse and have assisted hundreds of them, and crying is not the only indication of pain in newborns. Google "FLACC scale" for one instance of pain scoring for neonates, this is what we use at my hospital. I try to get out of assisting them as much as I can. It's very painful (how could it not be--they are cutting on an area with a lot of nerves!) and hardly use any anesthesia (would you want sugary water or the equivalent of a novocaine shot that will wear off in 30 minutes if you were getting circumcised?) If you don't want STD's or AIDS you have to practice safe sex, circumcision or not--and those studies are not considered compelling enough to change the AAP's policy, which does not recommend circumcision. If you DO opt to have it done, please insist on letting your son get some baby Tylenol afterwards. I only have girls, but after seeing all these circs done, I wouldn't even pierce my daughter's ears until they could tell me that it was ok. |
Anonymous
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Also--I have seen some BAD circ's done as well. Some doctors are notorious for them (and NO, I will not mention any names). Boys post circumcision are also notorious for having issues with breastfeeding for a day or two.
If you really want it done, go to a mohel. It's all they do, instead of having some OB squeeze it in between deliveries at the hospital. |
Anonymous
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Anonymous
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We circumsized. DS is now 2. We're Jewish but not particularly observant; I was on the fence. I did question our OB (who performed it--I disagree that you need a moyel, you just want someone who's done a lot of circumcisions) about the anesthesia used, and was satisfied with his answer (nerve block). The procedure also did not last 20-40 minutes as a pp said.
I did a fair amount of research beforehand and also concluded that it was largely a wash. It's true that the HIV/STD work may not apply to U.S. men but that really hasn't been studied. I have never heard of anyone who has been circumsized later say they wish they weren't. The procedure is very quick, and DS seemed to have minimal discomfort afterwards, and it healed quickly. On the flip side, I certainly see the argument that it's unnecessary and holds no real value. My only concern about not circumcizing was caring for an un-circed penis. I have heard stories of infection and other problems that arise (perhaps when parents don't know what they're doing, perhaps not--but I put myself in the "don't know what I'm doing" category). I know there is always a lot of talk pushing moyels, but I've found the bris's I've attended quite disturbing and less anesthesia was used (just numbing cream). And these were done by moyels who were also physicians. I'm sure there are some moyels whose skills and attention to pain control exceed other doctors, but it's not necessarily a given. I agree with pp's who say that it's pretty evenly split these days between boys who are circumcized and boys who are not, so I wouldn't base your decision on worrying about DS looking like everyone else. |
Anonymous
| If you have a religious reason, yea. If not, I say nay. My son is not circumcised, and it is perfectly easy to care for. I suspect it will not be something that DS thinks or worries about very much as he gets older. |
Anonymous
While 16:27 is certainly welcome to her assessment, I personally disagree. I believe that letting your son make his own decision about cosmetic surgery on his genitals is very wise and makes perfect sense. This myth - that circumcision is somehow easier for babies - has been circulating for quite some time. It started in the same era where we believed that newborns simply did not feel pain as strongly as adults; thus the widespread (horrific) practice of performing any number of necessary surgeries on newborns without any (or minimal) anesthesia. Thankfully this horrendous practice has now ceased -- EXCEPT when circumcision is performed because people continue to perpetuate the myth that "the baby barely feels it." This has been disproved through sound research; some of which shows that newborns may actually feel pain even more acutely than adults do. Honestly, I am not sure how exactly parents are able to suspend their logic enough to believe that their newborns "don't feel pain" during or after their circumcision, yet happily agree that it would be "horribly painful" for an adult -- yet this suspension of logic appears to be widespread with both parents and medical professionals alike. From an emotional standpoint, yes, circumcision is easier for babies because a newborn obviously is not going to have any fear or social stigma about it and his parents agree to it during a time of high medical activity (in the midst of the time of childbirth) and it feels like "just another procedure." However, medically speaking it is easier and less painful to circumcise an adult male, for a couple of reasons. First of all, his foreskin has already naturally separated from the glans, unlike a newborn who must have his foreskin forcibly ripped from the glans before cutting it off. Forcible retraction all by itself is quite painful, and can cause accidental tearing on the glans itself. Secondly, on a full-grown penis, it is much easier to see where the foreskin ends and the remaining penile skin begins, thus reducing the trouble of taking off too much or too little skin -- on a tiny baby it is practically impossible to get this exactly right, which is why we in the past saw "too tight" circumcisions, and now see "too loose" circumcisions; which can also cause long-term problems. Lastly, the pain is reduced with adults because adults are granted the option of using proper medication both during and after the surgery. Newborns almost universally do not receive appropriate anesthesia during the surgery (despite the now popular practice of giving various numbing creams), and never receive pain medication afterwards. I will concede that it is cheaper to circumcise a newborn, because your insurance will pay for it and because general anesthesia is not used - obviously this is a catch-22 because general anesthesia provides the necessary pain control, yet it is expensive and not safe for a newborn. So, we hide behind the fake veil of this assumption that "it doesn't really hurt" the baby, allowing us to perform the surgery on new babies who can't tell us the amount of pain they are experiencing, which also keeps the cost of the surgery quite low. An elective adult circumcision will typically not be covered, so yes it is costlier and requires some scheduling; whereas a newborn just has it taken care of right away. In this respect, yes, it is "easier" for a newborn. All the pain aside, I still believe it is wise to let your son decide. This of course means allowing the boy to be raised intact, and encouraging him to feel good about his body as nature created it. Of course, the chances are extremely high that if we lived in a culture of mostly intact boys and men, it would be very rare indeed for a boy/man to one day just announce that he wants to amputate his foreskin. Yet, if he wants to alter his genitals -- the way some women in this country have cosmetic surgery on various body parts including their genitals -- then you have preserved that option for him. Honestly, given the current rates of circumcision, I think we are going to find far more of our sons getting teased for NOT having a foreskin, being mad at their parents for this assault on their genitals, and requesting information about how to restore their penis. And, if he is one of the few that have a long term problem with his foreskin, he can have it surgically removed just as he can have any other body part removed if it is deemed medically necessary. Sorry to be so long-winded. Just my own long, thoughtful, reply to the same topic. Obviously we all have different perspectives on the issue! |
Anonymous
| We did not circumcise our son. My husband and all the males in both of our families are circumcised, but after doing some research we decided it was unnecessary and didn't do it. While we didn't get any pressure from our pediatrician, nurses, or other doctors before making our decision, after we made it clear that we weren't going to do it we had many of them tell us they thought it was the right decision. Our ped told us he spends lots of time fixing botched circumcision and that he feels that if you don't have a cultural or religious reason to do it, why do it? |
Anonymous
Just in case anyone reading feels they are in this "I don't know what I'm doing" category, I thought I would post some quick-read references. The bottom line is 1) Don't do anything to the intact penis but swish it gently around in the tub (until puberty, when your son can retract himself and rinse with plain water), and 2) Don't let anyone retract the foreskin. Caring for the intact penis is extremely easy and straightforward. No mystery here -- please don't let this concern get in the way of leaving your son intact if that's what you would otherwise be inclined to do. http://pediatrics.about.com/od/weeklyquestion/a/04_penis_care.htm http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/aap/ http://www.drmomma.org/2010/01/basic-care-of-intact-child.html |
Anonymous
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Just as an FYI, the reason circumcision is far more complex in adults than in babies isn't because newborns don't feel pain---please, if anyone has a ped who is still telling them this, find a new one!! It has to do with the development of the muscles, nerves, and blood vessels in the penis and foreskin---by adulthood (and even later in childhood) they are significantly more developed/denser and there is a greater risk of bleeding out and nerve damage, so general anaesthesia is used. Recovery is also far longer for circumcision of older children or adults for similar reasons. (This isn't unique to circumcision, either; there are many other surgeries that are more effective to do on babies/young children because our brains and bodies develop and adapt and will accommodate changes at the early age that we can't adjust to later. I had cosmetic surgery to correct a birth defect twice---the first half of the procedure was done when I was an infant, and the second as a teenager because they wanted to let me choose whether to have it done or not. The first half went beautifully, and the second has been awful because 20 years on, my body still hasn't healed properly from it---the only "solution" surgeons have is that it should have been done much sooner. I don't regret doing it, exactly, and I do respect my parents' desire to wait until I was old enough to voice my own opinion---my mom found the first procedure very traumatizing as a parent, which was a large part of why they waited on the second---but I do often wish they'd just done the entire procedure when I was very young.)
Also, if you do circ, absolutely ask for anaesthesia and for tylenol afterwards. This should be the norm in most medical settings at this point, though I don't know how mohels do it. We did not circ, but asked about it and our practice uses the nerve block as well (and will not do circumcision without anaesthesia, though I think you can opt for the topical cream instead). I personally don't have an issue with parents making this decision for their sons. I just don't think people should be thinking "oh, he can just do it later if he chooses to and it will be basically the same thing," because that's simply not true. And really? That's okay---it's a parental decision that you get to make, whatever you decide. |
Anonymous
I disagree. The penis is larger in an adult, and the person remembers what ssxx was like before and after. But it is not major surgery, not costly. Insurance coverage continues to change, so this way or that I would not count on it |
Anonymous
| My intact son had his son circumcised. I asked him why...he said that he wished I'd had him done as a babe---he didn't think a foreskin was worth the trouble of cleaning and the discomfort of waiting through the partially retractable period. Also, he was deployed and stated that sand in the foreskin is a major pain... |
Anonymous
Being circumcised does not mean not having ANY foreskin at all, so I am not sure why he thinks he wouldn't have had the sand issue if he had been circumcised... I am sorry but this sounds bizarre to me. |
Anonymous
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I just found out that we are having a boy and we will NOT be circumcising him. My husband is circumcised and is 100% okay with this decision. We both have researched the risks and benefits and feel comfortable with our decision.
For anyone interested in learning more, I recommend this youtube video by a Georgetown professor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSM-SkwGEf0 |