How to be the best mom in this situation

[Anonymous]

12:36 Right I'm basing my sense that one altercation does not constitute bullying on OP's posts. I also think the word "bullying" gets overused.

[Anonymous]

None of us, including the OP, know what really happened, so we can't really answer if it was bullying or not. The school thought it was, though, and took what sounds like appropriate action. Parents have demanded the stricter policies on bullying common in schools now, and if your child is the victim of the bullying, you probably think they're good policies.

OP, I don't think the school needs to protect your DD's identity, even though it means she is uncomfortable at school right now. I do think you should contact the school counselor to help support your DD in getting past this incident in a healthy way so she doesn't feel permanently labeled by her mistake for the rest of the year.

[Anonymous]

I'm confused by the whole "protect her identity" discussion. The incident apparently happened in a classroom, with a bunch of other kids around. It's not some secrete incident that happened in a bathroom - it was in public, in full view of others. The punishment apparently was sitting in an assigned desk for 3 weeks - that's hard to keep anonymous, but it's certainly not a public shaming, as some have called it. And what punishment in school is truly anonymous? Detention, suspension, writing, "I will not call my classmates sluts" on the blackboard 100 times a la Bart Simpson - none of them can be kept private.

It sounds like OP wanted just a warning/reprimand for her daughter, which the school didn't think was sufficient. I guess they don't let the parents of the offender pick the punishment - go figure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. No "slut" was not the reason of the altercation, the contentious desk was (very immature of my DD to feel entitled to a desk just beacuse she has been using it). There was a back and forth verbal excahges between my DD and the girl for 1 or 2 minutes in between classes, before many students were seated. "slut" was the only curse word used during the altercation - so I would say as a result. I have asked my DD specifically why she used that word and have learned that she did not use the word to mean any thing specific. She admitted she used the wrong word at the time to display her frustration.

Do not want to give the wrong impression, neither my DD and nor this other girl are from minority community.

To respond to other posters, I know for sure that boys are not involved and there is no previous interactions (school has just started 4 weeks back). The other girl is from a different feeder school and their friend circles are different.

I believe the authority acted stricter since my DD was on the wrong side of rules, wrong side of the racial profile (hate to beleive this one, but since I was present in the PTA when displine statistics were discusse) and the parents of the other girl has raised a huge storm over this.

No it's not. It's age appropriate. You are referring to a middle school kid not an adult. For them, in their mind, it is a big deal.

There is probably a lot more to the story but it seems like the school wants to use the idea that it is early in the year and make an example of this kid. I would never allow it to happen. I would call them on the behavior from them and demand an apology to my child for using this her to further their own agenda.

The school needs to think long term and realize that just filling in a bullying form does not equal bullying and they should know they will have to actually investigate such incidents and make informed decisions based on facts.

Please tell me you are joking! OP's DD has to understand that when you break the rules, sometimes the situation gets away from you. The DD messed up and one of the consequences is dealing with a school with a run amok bullying policy. I would talk to the school about possibly changing the process to reduce the public humiliation factor. But there is no way that I could, with a straight face, demand that the administration apologize to her when she created the whole mess.

[Anonymous]

What PP Said...

I will add that the punishment does not seem that inappropriate. We are not dealing with a kid expelled for taking an ibuprofen. We are dealing with a kid that acted inappropriately, and was punished.

I would think that fighting may be a more appropriate definition than bullying....but perhaps the other girl was being bullied by other students.....But the punishment does appear to be closer to what I would expect for a verbal altercation, rather than true bullying -- I would expect a suspension for that.

Bullying with girls often involves inappropriate comments undermining the child's sense of self. In boys, it tends to be more physical.

[Anonymous]

PP here. Yeah, I'm sorry if it feels like we are piling on the OP for more detail but this really is a situation where context matters. "words were exchanged" then "the word slut was a curse word used". Did your DD mutter "slut" under her breath? Or did she push herself into the girl's personal space and scream "you stupid slut!". Where were her friends at the time? Were they standing behind her? Were they cheering her on?

OP keeps making it sound like they had a conversation in which the word slut was used. This may be true. But I would need to believe that (i) OP's DD perceived the incident this way (ii) OP's DD told the objective unvarnished truth to OP (iii) OP is relaying the unbiased objective truth to us. This is a big ask.

Could the OP just help us out and basically map out a bit more of the actual conversation as she believes it happened. Like DD said "A", then other girl said "B".

Female bullying can be sneaky. Girls aren't necessarily going to punch and kick. They are going to be Mean Girls. They will exclude and humiliate, and tell people to "get out of my seat" (maybe stuff like "no one wants you here?), and call people "slut, whore, bitch" etc. That's how girls bully. And no offense, parents often just cannot believe that their little angel would be mean like that!

Put it this way, I can take the facts of your example and think of it being a truly bullying incident. Maybe a popular girl walks over to an unpopular girl in front of a group of classmates and says "Get out my seat. Go away". Maybe she looks around at her friends and they all laugh along with her at the unpopular loser who is in their seats. Maybe other friends are nodding along while this girl has no defenders. And when the girl refuses to move, she starts personal insults culminating in calling her a slut. Or ugly. Or a loser.

I went to an all girls Catholic school. This is TOTALLY plausible.

[Anonymous]

I don't have older kids yet, but I feel like in middle school, kids threw around a lot of words without thought to the meaning. I'm not saying it's ok, but I don't think the fact that your daughter used the word 'slut' means anything in itself. She probably went through her little rolodex of bad words and out it came.

It does sound like an altercation, not a bullying incident. However, I think your daughter is old enough to understand that she needs to think about the words she uses and her actions. In this case, she ended up using a highly-charged word that got her in a lot of trouble and could hurt someone. Those are the consequences of her actions.

Have you talked to her about how she should have handled this situation correctly? It seems like that's a skill she will need in the future.

[Anonymous]

Had taken a little mental vacation and forced myself not to reply so many times in a day. We (my DD and I) have been having little chats for two days about the incident.
Here is a kind of step by step transcript (heard from my DD) for others to understand:
DD walks into class and noticed that the other girl (OG) at “her” desk. This upsets DD. She walks alone to the OG (friends had not arrived yet and others students were trickling in since this class is right after lunch) and
DD: Why do you decide to sit here every once in a while when all your friends sit over there?
OG: I feel like it.
DD: No one around this desk is you r friends… are you trying to annoy?
OG: No, I can sit wherever I want. You can sit at the other desk, I do not care.
DD: I do not want to sit there… this is where all my friends sit. You move there, I sit here everyone is happy.
OG: Now you are going to tell me how I am going to be happy. Who do you think you are? You are trying to create trouble. I am not moving from here. I dare you to move me an inch.
DD: You are such a slut… I do not want to waste my time talking to you.
DD got out the classroom to drink some water and came back. By that time her friends had already come. She took another seat and class started. This was very one-to-one verbal fight. There were probably three other girls in the class (one of them was called during investigation).
Later that day I got a call from the school for a parent conference the next day. Apparently the OG had texted her parents and went to the office to report DD. He parents showed up with a bully form and the school started the process of investigation.
Yes, I have talked to my DD that
- she should not have considered the set as hers
- she should not have demanded the OG to move
- she should not have used inappropriate word (may be to hurt the OG)
- she could have thought the OG as one of her friends and not an outsider entering their “zone” and that might have made my DD more accepting.
I also have told her that she needs to understand any trigger that can irk her and think about not talking to anyone immediately. I have given her assignment (as one of the consequences for her mistake) to write a list of curse words she knows and the appropriate usage of the words. I also asked her to write a scenario where she is in the OG’s place and what she would want the OG to say.
What my heartburn is that school was not empathetic about the social repercussion of labeling an otherwise ok kid a bully for a small incident (DD has not anything like this before) and the parents of the OG taking it so far.

[Anonymous]

Ok, so your daughter sounds like a bully and a bitch (note the right use of the word in this context).

That's not that big a deal, because loads of girls go through this phase. But I'd bet on my life that if she's spoken to this one girl like that, she's spoken to others. She probably has a reputation at the school which is why action is being taken.

[Anonymous]

OP, definitely take this opportunity to teach your daughter about letting things slide. She could have sat in any desk right? The actions of OG set your DD off and really it shouldn't have so try to figure the correct way to respond to these little slights that kids do to each other all the time.

I have no idea why you are having her write curse words and the appropriate usage of the word. That doesn't make sense at all. Hard manual labor tends to work on girls. Mow the lawn, rake the leaves, pick up dog poop, etc.

OG was going to talk and tell absolutely everyone what happened so I wouldn't blame the school about your daughter being labelled. I am pretty sure the school didn't label OG a slut but that is what your daughter sees her as. Kids talk. Let that go and deal with your own child.

[Anonymous]

Give me a break, folks. This girl was trying to provoke OP's daughter. That said, OP, let it go. The term "bullying" is so overused these days. The school's in total zero tolerance mode. The girl took advantage of that situation. It's a classic power play. Focus on YOUR daughter and every teachable angle here. For one, you can't claim a chair in a classroom! And what you described does sound like coercion. Why did she think the girl should move? LET IT GO! I'm a PP who was more sympathetic to your concerns before you shared this exchange!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: She probably has a reputation at the school which is why action is being taken.

I'd have to agree with this. I do think you need to give the school/admin/teachers some credit for knowing the kids. If your DD was known as a really sweet girl and she was involved in an incident that seems way out there from her personality, I think the school would have given her just a warning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: She probably has a reputation at the school which is why action is being taken.

I'd have to agree with this. I do think you need to give the school/admin/teachers some credit for knowing the kids. If your DD was known as a really sweet girl and she was involved in an incident that seems way out there from her personality, I think the school would have given her just a warning.

Do you know the OP's DD? If not, how did you judge her? Another PP went ahead and called her a "bitch".

Wonder why you are in a thread commenting away without really understanding the situation. If we have such judgmental adults who cannot keep their bias and impulse to call others name in check, what do you expect from the kids!

[Anonymous]

I'm the PP who called the OP's DD a bitch. I just want to be clear. There's nothing wrong with being a bitch. It's describing a set of behaviors, not condemning the daughter to hell. I'm just saying that she sounds like she's a bitchy child. Maybe I should say Mean Girl instead? It's just weird because the OP seems determined to blame everyone else so it just seems likely that her DD is not as "sweet" as she thinks and this is not as "out of character".

Also the PP who thinks the OG "provoked" her is a bit insane.

[Anonymous]

OP, you sound like a good, conscientious mom. You are doing the best to raise your girl right. She went off the rails here and you are taking it seriously, yet also trying to support her emotionally.

I think the school's way to deal with this situation is appropriate. Your daughter name called and it was a bad one, over wanting to sit in a particular seat. IMO even saying "None of your friends are over here, no one likes you" is really bad, too. Making your daughter sit in an assigned seat is appropriate. A punishment isn't effective unless it makes the child uncomfortable!

I get your thinking that calling your child a bully is over the top. Maybe in your mind a bully implies a long standing pattern of behavior like this, not just a one time thing. But I think what your daughter did was the beginning of bullying behavior. This is just to show that even nice enough kids can engage in bullying tactics. This is what girl bullying looks like. Yes, it can get a lot worse. Hopefully your daughter won't ever do anything like this again.