Legal for businesses to exclude a race?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The business is not "excluding" any race so the question of whether it is legal is irrelevant. They are offering a service that (they believe) is tailored to the needs/preferences of a particular group. That is totally fine.

If I offered a bunch of grief counseling support groups and some were specifically tailored for Muslims and some were specifically tailored for Chinese people, etc. It would not be a problem. In fact, it would be helpful good business.

And saying a class is "for" a certain group isn't necessarily excluding other groups. It's saying the class will be tailored for certain groups. OP never asked if her white husband could attend with her, so she doesn't know that he can't come.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you want to go to a class that’s created for marginalzied people of color if you are not part of that group?

My question was about the legality of offering classes that excluded one or two racial groups.

Way to make assumptions. To answer your question, I am part of the “marginalized people of color” and one class that would work for me and my White husband, isn’t available to him.

And as a marginalized person of color, I would be offended if there was a class that was not open to me. But it appears to be legal, so I’ll either not take the class or wait until one opens up that works for our schedule.

I know this an unpopular thing to say but I’m also a “marginalized person of color” whose group is under some scrutiny at the moment. I’m not a fan of this type of segregation either. Either we are fully a part of society or we are not. My preference is that we are. That said, I don’t think it’s illegal.

Op here and that’s how I feel too. I believe it’s actually detrimental to have ‘well meaning’, but segregated classes. But what do I know, I’m just a “marginalized person of color”. I’ll just sit back read the room and let the white people tell me what’s best for me. They know best.

What if the class is for "survivors of racism by white people"? All survivors welcome.

https://youtu.be/dw_mRaIHb-M?si=QecR08nFzakbdtwS


Let me know what you think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

The baker claimed it violated her free speech and freedom of religion rights because the baking of a cake was “expression”. It’s bonkers.

Stop right there. It wasn't "just a cake" it was to be a custom artistic design.

And so what if was a baking class that was teaching “custom artistic designs?” Sub out baking for crafting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

The baker claimed it violated her free speech and freedom of religion rights because the baking of a cake was “expression”. It’s bonkers.

And the gay couple did not want a message written on their cake. They wanted a wedding cake. The baker said making a cake for a same-sex wedding violated her religion.

But they also didn't just want a basic cake that was readily available to any and all marrying couples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

The baker claimed it violated her free speech and freedom of religion rights because the baking of a cake was “expression”. It’s bonkers.

Stop right there. It wasn't "just a cake" it was to be a custom artistic design.

Yeah, like every other wedding cake. The baker didn't object to the design they were asking for, she objecting to making a cake for a same-sex wedding. Two straight people could have ordered a cake with the exact same specs and she would have made it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

The baker claimed it violated her free speech and freedom of religion rights because the baking of a cake was “expression”. It’s bonkers.

Stop right there. It wasn't "just a cake" it was to be a custom artistic design.

And so what if was a baking class that was teaching “custom artistic designs?” Sub out baking for crafting.

Why would you exclude someone from that type of class? You want to refuse to teach designs to someone who is too pale? I don't see the parallel. The baker didn't deny the gay couple from a cake decorating class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

The baker claimed it violated her free speech and freedom of religion rights because the baking of a cake was “expression”. It’s bonkers.

Stop right there. It wasn't "just a cake" it was to be a custom artistic design.

And so what if was a baking class that was teaching “custom artistic designs?” Sub out baking for crafting.

Then the class should be open to all, they just couldn't require the teacher to create anything herself while teaching it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

The baker claimed it violated her free speech and freedom of religion rights because the baking of a cake was “expression”. It’s bonkers.

Stop right there. It wasn't "just a cake" it was to be a custom artistic design.

Yeah, like every other wedding cake. The baker didn't object to the design they were asking for, she objecting to making a cake for a same-sex wedding. Two straight people could have ordered a cake with the exact same specs and she would have made it.

That's part of it. It was a custom cake that was going to take hours of time. Should a Palestinian baker be forced to make a custom bar mitzvah cake decorated with lots of Stars of David and Hebrew writing that they otherwise don't sell and haven't made before?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

The baker claimed it violated her free speech and freedom of religion rights because the baking of a cake was “expression”. It’s bonkers.

And the gay couple did not want a message written on their cake. They wanted a wedding cake. The baker said making a cake for a same-sex wedding violated her religion.

But they also didn't just want a basic cake that was readily available to any and all marrying couples.

All wedding cakes are custom/made to order. The couple never even discussed the details of the design they wanted; the owner simply refused to make a wedding cake for gay people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

The baker claimed it violated her free speech and freedom of religion rights because the baking of a cake was “expression”. It’s bonkers.

And the gay couple did not want a message written on their cake. They wanted a wedding cake. The baker said making a cake for a same-sex wedding violated her religion.

But they also didn't just want a basic cake that was readily available to any and all marrying couples.

All wedding cakes are custom/made to order. The couple never even discussed the details of the design they wanted; the owner simply refused to make a wedding cake for gay people.

The couple wasn't even real, they were agitators who specifically targeted this baker. I wouldn't bake for them either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

The baker claimed it violated her free speech and freedom of religion rights because the baking of a cake was “expression”. It’s bonkers.

And the gay couple did not want a message written on their cake. They wanted a wedding cake. The baker said making a cake for a same-sex wedding violated her religion.

But they also didn't just want a basic cake that was readily available to any and all marrying couples.

All wedding cakes are custom/made to order. The couple never even discussed the details of the design they wanted; the owner simply refused to make a wedding cake for gay people.

The couple wasn't even real, they were agitators who specifically targeted this baker. I wouldn't bake for them either.

After the wedding cake ruling didn't they try to harass the baker for a trans cake?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

The baker claimed it violated her free speech and freedom of religion rights because the baking of a cake was “expression”. It’s bonkers.

Stop right there. It wasn't "just a cake" it was to be a custom artistic design.

Yeah, like every other wedding cake. The baker didn't object to the design they were asking for, she objecting to making a cake for a same-sex wedding. Two straight people could have ordered a cake with the exact same specs and she would have made it.

That's part of it. It was a custom cake that was going to take hours of time. Should a Palestinian baker be forced to make a custom bar mitzvah cake decorated with lots of Stars of David and Hebrew writing that they otherwise don't sell and haven't made before?

You can make up all kinds of straw men in your head, but the owner didn't object to the design they wanted; he objected to making a cake for a same-sex wedding. Having been to some same-sex weddings, their cakes looked just like straight people's cakes. They are decorated with ribbons and flowers and whatnot, not religious symbols.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

The baker claimed it violated her free speech and freedom of religion rights because the baking of a cake was “expression”. It’s bonkers.

Stop right there. It wasn't "just a cake" it was to be a custom artistic design.

Yeah, like every other wedding cake. The baker didn't object to the design they were asking for, she objecting to making a cake for a same-sex wedding. Two straight people could have ordered a cake with the exact same specs and she would have made it.

That's part of it. It was a custom cake that was going to take hours of time. Should a Palestinian baker be forced to make a custom bar mitzvah cake decorated with lots of Stars of David and Hebrew writing that they otherwise don't sell and haven't made before?

You can make up all kinds of straw men in your head, but the owner didn't object to the design they wanted; he objected to making a cake for a same-sex wedding. Having been to some same-sex weddings, their cakes looked just like straight people's cakes. They are decorated with ribbons and flowers and whatnot, not religious symbols.

It doesn't matter. The baker won.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

The baker claimed it violated her free speech and freedom of religion rights because the baking of a cake was “expression”. It’s bonkers.

And the gay couple did not want a message written on their cake. They wanted a wedding cake. The baker said making a cake for a same-sex wedding violated her religion.

But they also didn't just want a basic cake that was readily available to any and all marrying couples.

All wedding cakes are custom/made to order. The couple never even discussed the details of the design they wanted; the owner simply refused to make a wedding cake for gay people.

The couple wasn't even real, they were agitators who specifically targeted this baker. I wouldn't bake for them either.

After the wedding cake ruling didn't they try to harass the baker for a trans cake?

Yes. The baker was specifically targeted. It's not like there weren't any other bakeries in town. Every Walmart has a generic wedding cake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s a crafting class. They offer several courses, but one of the classes specifically says it is “for black, indigenous, and people of color.”

Are they covered because they are offering the same class that is open to all races?

Why don't you call and ask if white people can attend? Is there a reason you want to attend this particular class?