Legal for businesses to exclude a race?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you want to go to a class that’s created for marginalzied people of color if you are not part of that group?

My question was about the legality of offering classes that excluded one or two racial groups.

Way to make assumptions. To answer your question, I am part of the “marginalized people of color” and one class that would work for me and my White husband, isn’t available to him.

And as a marginalized person of color, I would be offended if there was a class that was not open to me. But it appears to be legal, so I’ll either not take the class or wait until one opens up that works for our schedule.

I know this an unpopular thing to say but I’m also a “marginalized person of color” whose group is under some scrutiny at the moment. I’m not a fan of this type of segregation either. Either we are fully a part of society or we are not. My preference is that we are. That said, I don’t think it’s illegal.

Op here and that’s how I feel too. I believe it’s actually detrimental to have ‘well meaning’, but segregated classes. But what do I know, I’m just a “marginalized person of color”. I’ll just sit back read the room and let the white people tell me what’s best for me. They know best.

Well, I’m a Black woman who responded to your question- so who’s making the assumptions now?

And there are many times when services can be geared towards specific populations. As one of many examples-I’m working with an entrepreneur who is offering writing workshops for Black women - they cover a lot of non race/gender specific stuff. Anybody would be welcome, but some of the curriculum deals specifically with trauma caused by racial discrimination. So yes ‘segregation’ is what makes these women feel safe enough to tell their stories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s a crafting class. They offer several courses, but one of the classes specifically says it is “for black, indigenous, and people of color.”

Are they covered because they are offering the same class that is open to all races?

Doesn't sound like they are excluding anyone. It sounds like the group will be focused on a particular art form born out of need that arose from crafters being historically excluded by white crafters (which is a true history). So you would be allowed to go, but understand that they will be talking about a legacy you don't share, and working on styles that are not a part of your personal ethnic history, which is fine, but you should go in understanding the reason the group has formed and the history and purpose of the art they are doing. It arises out of a legacy of supression. Also, it is arguably a form of personal introspection and serves a socially therapuetic purpose for a condition you do not suffer from -- so going would be a bit like a tea totaler attending AA, or an abuser attending a sewing circle of dometic violence surviors.

If you go in with a mind hell-bent on claiming your own victimhood, I'd suggest a dfferent form of therapy instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a crafting class. They offer several courses, but one of the classes specifically says it is “for black, indigenous, and people of color.”

Are they covered because they are offering the same class that is open to all races?

Doesn't sound like they are excluding anyone. It sounds like the group will be focused on a particular art form born out of need that arose from crafters being historically excluded by white crafters (which is a true history). So you would be allowed to go, but understand that they will be talking about a legacy you don't share, and working on styles that are not a part of your personal ethnic history, which is fine, but you should go in understanding the reason the group has formed and the history and purpose of the art they are doing. It arises out of a legacy of supression. Also, it is arguably a form of personal introspection and serves a socially therapuetic purpose for a condition you do not suffer from -- so going would be a bit like a tea totaler attending AA, or an abuser attending a sewing circle of dometic violence surviors.

If you go in with a mind hell-bent on claiming your own victimhood, I'd suggest a dfferent form of therapy instead.

If you are in a music class learning classical music is it ok if it's a "legacy you don't share"? Is that the purpose of art?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you want to go to a class that’s created for marginalzied people of color if you are not part of that group?

My question was about the legality of offering classes that excluded one or two racial groups.

Way to make assumptions. To answer your question, I am part of the “marginalized people of color” and one class that would work for me and my White husband, isn’t available to him.

And as a marginalized person of color, I would be offended if there was a class that was not open to me. But it appears to be legal, so I’ll either not take the class or wait until one opens up that works for our schedule.

I know this an unpopular thing to say but I’m also a “marginalized person of color” whose group is under some scrutiny at the moment. I’m not a fan of this type of segregation either. Either we are fully a part of society or we are not. My preference is that we are. That said, I don’t think it’s illegal.

Op here and that’s how I feel too. I believe it’s actually detrimental to have ‘well meaning’, but segregated classes. But what do I know, I’m just a “marginalized person of color”. I’ll just sit back read the room and let the white people tell me what’s best for me. They know best.

What if the class is for "survivors of racism by white people"? All survivors welcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

The baker claimed it violated her free speech and freedom of religion rights because the baking of a cake was “expression”. It’s bonkers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you want to go to a class that’s created for marginalzied people of color if you are not part of that group?

My question was about the legality of offering classes that excluded one or two racial groups.

Way to make assumptions. To answer your question, I am part of the “marginalized people of color” and one class that would work for me and my White husband, isn’t available to him.

And as a marginalized person of color, I would be offended if there was a class that was not open to me. But it appears to be legal, so I’ll either not take the class or wait until one opens up that works for our schedule.

I know this an unpopular thing to say but I’m also a “marginalized person of color” whose group is under some scrutiny at the moment. I’m not a fan of this type of segregation either. Either we are fully a part of society or we are not. My preference is that we are. That said, I don’t think it’s illegal.

Op here and that’s how I feel too. I believe it’s actually detrimental to have ‘well meaning’, but segregated classes. But what do I know, I’m just a “marginalized person of color”. I’ll just sit back read the room and let the white people tell me what’s best for me. They know best.

Well, I’m a Black woman who responded to your question- so who’s making the assumptions now?

And there are many times when services can be geared towards specific populations. As one of many examples-I’m working with an entrepreneur who is offering writing workshops for Black women - they cover a lot of non race/gender specific stuff. Anybody would be welcome, but some of the curriculum deals specifically with trauma caused by racial discrimination. So yes ‘segregation’ is what makes these women feel safe enough to tell their stories.

An intro to crafting class does not need to be racially segregated. Blacks, Latinos, and people of color don’t cut, saw, glue any differently than any other racial group. There is no racial trauma tied to using a skill saw.

[Anonymous]

A public-facing business generally cannot refuse service because of race.

So, likely illegal if OP's husband is not permitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you want to go to a class that’s created for marginalzied people of color if you are not part of that group?

My question was about the legality of offering classes that excluded one or two racial groups.

Way to make assumptions. To answer your question, I am part of the “marginalized people of color” and one class that would work for me and my White husband, isn’t available to him.

And as a marginalized person of color, I would be offended if there was a class that was not open to me. But it appears to be legal, so I’ll either not take the class or wait until one opens up that works for our schedule.

Interesting choice for you to jump straight to ‘legality’ questions. You could have asked if a non person of color would be welcome, you could have asked how best to approach the offerer of the class….

You chose to go straight for the ‘stick’ that legality implies. Thats a bigger assumption than I made.

Read the room OP, in this climate organizations are getting sued for even attempting to serve minority populations. Your question doesn’t exist in a vacuum.

The question for me was whether or not it’s legal to offer a class only to certain racial groups while excluding others.

So this business or any business can say we’re offering this class only to whites. They can’t because that’s illegal. I’m asking this question about legality. I didn’t call them out, I didn’t post who they were, I’m asking anon.

However, I read the way the class was offered and from what you wrote, it sounds like it's directed towards people of color, but I don't think it excludes white people. I am white and if I wanted to attend the course, I don't think I would've been excluded. It just wasn't directed towards me and/or my interests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you want to go to a class that’s created for marginalzied people of color if you are not part of that group?

My question was about the legality of offering classes that excluded one or two racial groups.

Way to make assumptions. To answer your question, I am part of the “marginalized people of color” and one class that would work for me and my White husband, isn’t available to him.

And as a marginalized person of color, I would be offended if there was a class that was not open to me. But it appears to be legal, so I’ll either not take the class or wait until one opens up that works for our schedule.

Interesting choice for you to jump straight to ‘legality’ questions. You could have asked if a non person of color would be welcome, you could have asked how best to approach the offerer of the class….

You chose to go straight for the ‘stick’ that legality implies. Thats a bigger assumption than I made.

Read the room OP, in this climate organizations are getting sued for even attempting to serve minority populations. Your question doesn’t exist in a vacuum.

You can't exclude one group in order to "attempt to serve" other populations. Hang your shingle out and invite everyone to do business with you.

Exactly. I can't open a country club and put up a sign that says "no coloreds or Jews" in an attempt to serve the WASP clientele.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

The baker claimed it violated her free speech and freedom of religion rights because the baking of a cake was “expression”. It’s bonkers.

Stop right there. It wasn't "just a cake" it was to be a custom artistic design.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you want to go to a class that’s created for marginalzied people of color if you are not part of that group?

My question was about the legality of offering classes that excluded one or two racial groups.

Way to make assumptions. To answer your question, I am part of the “marginalized people of color” and one class that would work for me and my White husband, isn’t available to him.

And as a marginalized person of color, I would be offended if there was a class that was not open to me. But it appears to be legal, so I’ll either not take the class or wait until one opens up that works for our schedule.

I know this an unpopular thing to say but I’m also a “marginalized person of color” whose group is under some scrutiny at the moment. I’m not a fan of this type of segregation either. Either we are fully a part of society or we are not. My preference is that we are. That said, I don’t think it’s illegal.

Op here and that’s how I feel too. I believe it’s actually detrimental to have ‘well meaning’, but segregated classes. But what do I know, I’m just a “marginalized person of color”. I’ll just sit back read the room and let the white people tell me what’s best for me. They know best.

What if the class is for "survivors of racism by white people"? All survivors welcome.

What if men wanted to have a class to talk about being victims in today's society. Cool or no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you want to go to a class that’s created for marginalzied people of color if you are not part of that group?

My question was about the legality of offering classes that excluded one or two racial groups.

Way to make assumptions. To answer your question, I am part of the “marginalized people of color” and one class that would work for me and my White husband, isn’t available to him.

And as a marginalized person of color, I would be offended if there was a class that was not open to me. But it appears to be legal, so I’ll either not take the class or wait until one opens up that works for our schedule.

I know this an unpopular thing to say but I’m also a “marginalized person of color” whose group is under some scrutiny at the moment. I’m not a fan of this type of segregation either. Either we are fully a part of society or we are not. My preference is that we are. That said, I don’t think it’s illegal.

Op here and that’s how I feel too. I believe it’s actually detrimental to have ‘well meaning’, but segregated classes. But what do I know, I’m just a “marginalized person of color”. I’ll just sit back read the room and let the white people tell me what’s best for me. They know best.

Well, I’m a Black woman who responded to your question- so who’s making the assumptions now?

And there are many times when services can be geared towards specific populations. As one of many examples-I’m working with an entrepreneur who is offering writing workshops for Black women - they cover a lot of non race/gender specific stuff. Anybody would be welcome, but some of the curriculum deals specifically with trauma caused by racial discrimination. So yes ‘segregation’ is what makes these women feel safe enough to tell their stories.

An intro to crafting class does not need to be racially segregated. Blacks, Latinos, and people of color don’t cut, saw, glue any differently than any other racial group. There is no racial trauma tied to using a skill saw.

Aww, poor little tink tink.

[Anonymous]

The business is not "excluding" any race so the question of whether it is legal is irrelevant. They are offering a service that (they believe) is tailored to the needs/preferences of a particular group. That is totally fine.

If I offered a bunch of grief counseling support groups and some were specifically tailored for Muslims and some were specifically tailored for Chinese people, etc. It would not be a problem. In fact, it would be helpful good business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you want to go to a class that’s created for marginalzied people of color if you are not part of that group?

My question was about the legality of offering classes that excluded one or two racial groups.

Way to make assumptions. To answer your question, I am part of the “marginalized people of color” and one class that would work for me and my White husband, isn’t available to him.

And as a marginalized person of color, I would be offended if there was a class that was not open to me. But it appears to be legal, so I’ll either not take the class or wait until one opens up that works for our schedule.

I know this an unpopular thing to say but I’m also a “marginalized person of color” whose group is under some scrutiny at the moment. I’m not a fan of this type of segregation either. Either we are fully a part of society or we are not. My preference is that we are. That said, I don’t think it’s illegal.

Op here and that’s how I feel too. I believe it’s actually detrimental to have ‘well meaning’, but segregated classes. But what do I know, I’m just a “marginalized person of color”. I’ll just sit back read the room and let the white people tell me what’s best for me. They know best.

What if the class is for "survivors of racism by white people"? All survivors welcome.

What if men wanted to have a class to talk about being victims in today's society. Cool or no?

Absolutely! It’s called ‘your average board room’. Also called the average Senior pastor of your local church. See also, quite a few unions. Check out many many sports bars. You could also try your local barber…. And finally, if you use a basic google search you will find various and sundry men’s groups.Good luck, pp!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

The baker claimed it violated her free speech and freedom of religion rights because the baking of a cake was “expression”. It’s bonkers.

And the gay couple did not want a message written on their cake. They wanted a wedding cake. The baker said making a cake for a same-sex wedding violated her religion.