Legal for businesses to exclude a race?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you want to go to a class that’s created for marginalzied people of color if you are not part of that group?

My question was about the legality of offering classes that excluded one or two racial groups.

Way to make assumptions. To answer your question, I am part of the “marginalized people of color” and one class that would work for me and my White husband, isn’t available to him.

And as a marginalized person of color, I would be offended if there was a class that was not open to me. But it appears to be legal, so I’ll either not take the class or wait until one opens up that works for our schedule.

Interesting choice for you to jump straight to ‘legality’ questions. You could have asked if a non person of color would be welcome, you could have asked how best to approach the offerer of the class….

You chose to go straight for the ‘stick’ that legality implies. Thats a bigger assumption than I made.

Read the room OP, in this climate organizations are getting sued for even attempting to serve minority populations. Your question doesn’t exist in a vacuum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's legal if it's considered a public accommodation. OP, if you have a local commission on human rights, like county or city level, or if not then state, see if they have a hotline or public email just to ask. Local and state laws vary and I'm surprised most replies are so sure it's legal.

This is a STRETCH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you want to go to a class that’s created for marginalzied people of color if you are not part of that group?

My question was about the legality of offering classes that excluded one or two racial groups.

Way to make assumptions. To answer your question, I am part of the “marginalized people of color” and one class that would work for me and my White husband, isn’t available to him.

And as a marginalized person of color, I would be offended if there was a class that was not open to me. But it appears to be legal, so I’ll either not take the class or wait until one opens up that works for our schedule.

Interesting choice for you to jump straight to ‘legality’ questions. You could have asked if a non person of color would be welcome, you could have asked how best to approach the offerer of the class….

You chose to go straight for the ‘stick’ that legality implies. Thats a bigger assumption than I made.

Read the room OP, in this climate organizations are getting sued for even attempting to serve minority populations. Your question doesn’t exist in a vacuum.

+1
Why not just call the business and ask, "I'm [Native American] and my husband is white; could we attend the Wednesday class together? It's the only time that works for us."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you want to go to a class that’s created for marginalzied people of color if you are not part of that group?

My question was about the legality of offering classes that excluded one or two racial groups.

Way to make assumptions. To answer your question, I am part of the “marginalized people of color” and one class that would work for me and my White husband, isn’t available to him.

And as a marginalized person of color, I would be offended if there was a class that was not open to me. But it appears to be legal, so I’ll either not take the class or wait until one opens up that works for our schedule.

Interesting choice for you to jump straight to ‘legality’ questions. You could have asked if a non person of color would be welcome, you could have asked how best to approach the offerer of the class….

You chose to go straight for the ‘stick’ that legality implies. Thats a bigger assumption than I made.

Read the room OP, in this climate organizations are getting sued for even attempting to serve minority populations. Your question doesn’t exist in a vacuum.

The question for me was whether or not it’s legal to offer a class only to certain racial groups while excluding others.

So this business or any business can say we’re offering this class only to whites. They can’t because that’s illegal. I’m asking this question about legality. I didn’t call them out, I didn’t post who they were, I’m asking anon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you want to go to a class that’s created for marginalzied people of color if you are not part of that group?

My question was about the legality of offering classes that excluded one or two racial groups.

Way to make assumptions. To answer your question, I am part of the “marginalized people of color” and one class that would work for me and my White husband, isn’t available to him.

And as a marginalized person of color, I would be offended if there was a class that was not open to me. But it appears to be legal, so I’ll either not take the class or wait until one opens up that works for our schedule.

Interesting choice for you to jump straight to ‘legality’ questions. You could have asked if a non person of color would be welcome, you could have asked how best to approach the offerer of the class….

You chose to go straight for the ‘stick’ that legality implies. Thats a bigger assumption than I made.

Read the room OP, in this climate organizations are getting sued for even attempting to serve minority populations. Your question doesn’t exist in a vacuum.

The question for me was whether or not it’s legal to offer a class only to certain racial groups while excluding others.

So this business or any business can say we’re offering this class only to whites. They can’t because that’s illegal. I’m asking this question about legality. I didn’t call them out, I didn’t post who they were, I’m asking anon.

Why do you think that is illegal? It's actually not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you want to go to a class that’s created for marginalzied people of color if you are not part of that group?

My question was about the legality of offering classes that excluded one or two racial groups.

Way to make assumptions. To answer your question, I am part of the “marginalized people of color” and one class that would work for me and my White husband, isn’t available to him.

And as a marginalized person of color, I would be offended if there was a class that was not open to me. But it appears to be legal, so I’ll either not take the class or wait until one opens up that works for our schedule.

Interesting choice for you to jump straight to ‘legality’ questions. You could have asked if a non person of color would be welcome, you could have asked how best to approach the offerer of the class….

You chose to go straight for the ‘stick’ that legality implies. Thats a bigger assumption than I made.

Read the room OP, in this climate organizations are getting sued for even attempting to serve minority populations. Your question doesn’t exist in a vacuum.

The question for me was whether or not it’s legal to offer a class only to certain racial groups while excluding others.

So this business or any business can say we’re offering this class only to whites. They can’t because that’s illegal. I’m asking this question about legality. I didn’t call them out, I didn’t post who they were, I’m asking anon.

Why do you think that is illegal? It's actually not.

It may very well be. Many states, counties, and cities have laws that are stricter than the federal government. It's a good idea for OP to research before calling the business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this part of a school or just some rando offering classes in her business? Because a business is allowed to offer products to whomever they want.

It is a brick and mortar business, it’s been around for a long long time.

Then yes, they are totally allowed to do that.

I'd use social media to shine a spotlight on that and let everyone know then. Shame them into doing the right thing.

[Anonymous]

This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you want to go to a class that’s created for marginalzied people of color if you are not part of that group?

My question was about the legality of offering classes that excluded one or two racial groups.

Way to make assumptions. To answer your question, I am part of the “marginalized people of color” and one class that would work for me and my White husband, isn’t available to him.

And as a marginalized person of color, I would be offended if there was a class that was not open to me. But it appears to be legal, so I’ll either not take the class or wait until one opens up that works for our schedule.

Interesting choice for you to jump straight to ‘legality’ questions. You could have asked if a non person of color would be welcome, you could have asked how best to approach the offerer of the class….

You chose to go straight for the ‘stick’ that legality implies. Thats a bigger assumption than I made.

Read the room OP, in this climate organizations are getting sued for even attempting to serve minority populations. Your question doesn’t exist in a vacuum.

You can't exclude one group in order to "attempt to serve" other populations. Hang your shingle out and invite everyone to do business with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would you want to go to a class that’s created for marginalzied people of color if you are not part of that group?

My question was about the legality of offering classes that excluded one or two racial groups.

Way to make assumptions. To answer your question, I am part of the “marginalized people of color” and one class that would work for me and my White husband, isn’t available to him.

And as a marginalized person of color, I would be offended if there was a class that was not open to me. But it appears to be legal, so I’ll either not take the class or wait until one opens up that works for our schedule.

I know this an unpopular thing to say but I’m also a “marginalized person of color” whose group is under some scrutiny at the moment. I’m not a fan of this type of segregation either. Either we are fully a part of society or we are not. My preference is that we are. That said, I don’t think it’s illegal.

Op here and that’s how I feel too. I believe it’s actually detrimental to have ‘well meaning’, but segregated classes. But what do I know, I’m just a “marginalized person of color”. I’ll just sit back read the room and let the white people tell me what’s best for me. They know best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

DP. The cake one also involved freedom of speech and religion issues. The gay couple wasn't just trying to buy a cake off the shelf, they wanted to baker to write some kind of message on the cake that was against the baker's religious belief (I don't remember specifically). Just refusing to sell them an already made plain cake probably would have been illegal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

DP. The cake one also involved freedom of speech and religion issues. The gay couple wasn't just trying to buy a cake off the shelf, they wanted to baker to write some kind of message on the cake that was against the baker's religious belief (I don't remember specifically). Just refusing to sell them an already made plain cake probably would have been illegal.

The baker was more like an artist and the couple wanted the artist to design a custom cake. It was decided that they could not force an artist to do that. A cake from their catalogue would have been different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

DP. The cake one also involved freedom of speech and religion issues. The gay couple wasn't just trying to buy a cake off the shelf, they wanted to baker to write some kind of message on the cake that was against the baker's religious belief (I don't remember specifically). Just refusing to sell them an already made plain cake probably would have been illegal.

The baker was more like an artist and the couple wanted the artist to design a custom cake. It was decided that they could not force an artist to do that. A cake from their catalogue would have been different.

Exactly. Just like if I walked into an artist's studio/gallery and asked them to paint me a painting of somethign they didn't want to paint. They can turn down that custom work request. However, if they have paintings for sale in the shop, they can't deny to sell it to me because of my race or orientation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not legal, I'm surprised by the number of people who think it is. Businesses that offer services to the general public cannot deny services to a customer based on his or her race. The bakery/gay customer case is a different issue, I won't bore anyone with specifics.

No, please do bore us with the specifics. I want to know how it is different,

DP. The cake one also involved freedom of speech and religion issues. The gay couple wasn't just trying to buy a cake off the shelf, they wanted to baker to write some kind of message on the cake that was against the baker's religious belief (I don't remember specifically). Just refusing to sell them an already made plain cake probably would have been illegal.

The baker was more like an artist and the couple wanted the artist to design a custom cake. It was decided that they could not force an artist to do that. A cake from their catalogue would have been different.

Exactly. Just like if I walked into an artist's studio/gallery and asked them to paint me a painting of somethign they didn't want to paint. They can turn down that custom work request. However, if they have paintings for sale in the shop, they can't deny to sell it to me because of my race or orientation.

So in this example the class is in the catalogue and they are telling people of the wrong hue that it's not for them solely based on race, it's hard to argue that's ok. Maybe a work around is to just have a group of people create a "private class" that isn't otherwise open to anyone not in the private group because they have filled all these spots.