So was QEII kind of an idiot?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hard to call any leader or monarch an idiot when we've got DJT in charge of our own country.

This. You can't get a better argument for monarchism than DJT being elected twice. I'd gladly take any of the Windsors over what we've got. Even Prince George at 12 would probably do a better job.

That being said, Elizabeth was the product of a very particular era and a very odd, anachronistic family constrained by strictures that applied to no one else on earth. Support for healthy emotional development didn't feature anywhere, for her own upbringing or the one she then gave her children because she knew nothing else. Three of the four ended up divorced. And Elizabeth is hardly the first mother on Earth to have a soft spot for a rotten son in Andrew. Charles and Diana should never have married except that again, they were trapped by strictures peculiar to their era and positions that have since gone by the wayside.

William and Harry grew up in a fishbowl and most kids raised in the environment that their parents' marital strife created are going to be scarred by it. Charles has the emotional intelligence of a cabbage like the rest of his family line, and Diana was mentally ill, got no support for it, and inappropriately unloaded her adult baggage onto William. And then she died, in a horrific and incredibly public way, when the boys were 15 and 12. Leaving them with emotional support cabbages. It's a wonder they're not way more messed up than they already are. I do have sympathy for them all to some extent. Except Andrew, he can rot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to call any leader or monarch an idiot when we've got DJT in charge of our own country.

This. You can't get a better argument for monarchism than DJT being elected twice. I'd gladly take any of the Windsors over what we've got. Even Prince George at 12 would probably do a better job.

That being said, Elizabeth was the product of a very particular era and a very odd, anachronistic family constrained by strictures that applied to no one else on earth. Support for healthy emotional development didn't feature anywhere, for her own upbringing or the one she then gave her children because she knew nothing else. Three of the four ended up divorced. And Elizabeth is hardly the first mother on Earth to have a soft spot for a rotten son in Andrew. Charles and Diana should never have married except that again, they were trapped by strictures peculiar to their era and positions that have since gone by the wayside.

William and Harry grew up in a fishbowl and most kids raised in the environment that their parents' marital strife created are going to be scarred by it. Charles has the emotional intelligence of a cabbage like the rest of his family line, and Diana was mentally ill, got no support for it, and inappropriately unloaded her adult baggage onto William. And then she died, in a horrific and incredibly public way, when the boys were 15 and 12. Leaving them with emotional support cabbages. It's a wonder they're not way more messed up than they already are. I do have sympathy for them all to some extent. Except Andrew, he can rot.

I think this is fair. Both William and Harry have been involved in mental health charities and I'm sure their personal experiences, as well as as their observation of family members, played a part in that. It's a wonder QEII kept this band of misfits together as long as she did, frankly. Now the veneer is beginning to crack and we can all see the toll it took. They're only human after all, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Look at what happened to every other royal family in the 20th century and it’s amazing that QE2 managed to do so well in finding a lane and sticking to it.

I don’t think she was particularly bright but she was dedicated and persistent. And anyone who ruled for 50 years is going yo have a few mis steps. She didn’t have great perspective on her kids (including not understanding that diana was much more sympathetic than Charles) but that’s pretty common for moms. I think if she was younger she would have been able to manage the harry William problem better. She was very good at keeping a lid on drama and in her younger days probably would have been able to sit everyone down and tell them to suck it up.

I also think Meghan was dumb not to just wait out all th drama. The press would have gotten bored eventually if she just grey rocked the whole situation and she would eventually have been a boring middle aged princess with kids at Oxford or whatever. She let the press pull her off course. I guess maybe she likes her new life better though—who knows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look at what happened to every other royal family in the 20th century and it’s amazing that QE2 managed to do so well in finding a lane and sticking to it.

I don’t think she was particularly bright but she was dedicated and persistent. And anyone who ruled for 50 years is going yo have a few mis steps. She didn’t have great perspective on her kids (including not understanding that diana was much more sympathetic than Charles) but that’s pretty common for moms. I think if she was younger she would have been able to manage the harry William problem better. She was very good at keeping a lid on drama and in her younger days probably would have been able to sit everyone down and tell them to suck it up.

I also think Meghan was dumb not to just wait out all th drama. The press would have gotten bored eventually if she just grey rocked the whole situation and she would eventually have been a boring middle aged princess with kids at Oxford or whatever. She let the press pull her off course. I guess maybe she likes her new life better though—who knows.

I agree that QEII did a great job finding her lane and sticking to it, even if by modern standards she was old-fashioned in her conception of her job. In fact, I think people liked that she plugged along, working hard in that old-timey lane of hers.

And I agree, everyone makes missteps. I posted earlier that the stated reason for staying in Scotland after Diana's death was to protect the boys from all the insanity going on in London, and to me that makes sense. Andrew was a huge misstep, though, and it will taint QEII's legacy.

I disagree that the press would have lost interest in Meghan. It's been how many years, and the Daily Mail still has a daily Meghan hate pieces, because that's apparently what still drives clicks more than the rest of the BRF. I've read a lot of those clicks are bots and paid hate accounts, but still. Those cartoons of Archie as a chimp were pretty horrific and apparently she considered ending it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look at what happened to every other royal family in the 20th century and it’s amazing that QE2 managed to do so well in finding a lane and sticking to it.

I don’t think she was particularly bright but she was dedicated and persistent. And anyone who ruled for 50 years is going yo have a few mis steps. She didn’t have great perspective on her kids (including not understanding that diana was much more sympathetic than Charles) but that’s pretty common for moms. I think if she was younger she would have been able to manage the harry William problem better. She was very good at keeping a lid on drama and in her younger days probably would have been able to sit everyone down and tell them to suck it up.

I also think Meghan was dumb not to just wait out all th drama. The press would have gotten bored eventually if she just grey rocked the whole situation and she would eventually have been a boring middle aged princess with kids at Oxford or whatever. She let the press pull her off course. I guess maybe she likes her new life better though—who knows.

IF you believe Meghan’s narrative she basically had a mental health emergency because of the press. I mean if you are having a total mental breakdown you cannot simply wait it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look at what happened to every other royal family in the 20th century and it’s amazing that QE2 managed to do so well in finding a lane and sticking to it.

I don’t think she was particularly bright but she was dedicated and persistent. And anyone who ruled for 50 years is going yo have a few mis steps. She didn’t have great perspective on her kids (including not understanding that diana was much more sympathetic than Charles) but that’s pretty common for moms. I think if she was younger she would have been able to manage the harry William problem better. She was very good at keeping a lid on drama and in her younger days probably would have been able to sit everyone down and tell them to suck it up.

I also think Meghan was dumb not to just wait out all th drama. The press would have gotten bored eventually if she just grey rocked the whole situation and she would eventually have been a boring middle aged princess with kids at Oxford or whatever. She let the press pull her off course. I guess maybe she likes her new life better though—who knows.

I also think if she put her head down the press would have gotten bored eventually. But it does sound like she was having a mental health crisis and truly wasn't able to do that. When it all calmed down, I think they should have nixed Spare and Oprah, but I also think they were both in a terrible headspace. I don't know, I hope the same thing that I would hope for any family: eventual reconciliation. Even if they like their life, I'm sure they don't like the current relationship with Harry's family, and maybe even her dad as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at what happened to every other royal family in the 20th century and it’s amazing that QE2 managed to do so well in finding a lane and sticking to it.

I don’t think she was particularly bright but she was dedicated and persistent. And anyone who ruled for 50 years is going yo have a few mis steps. She didn’t have great perspective on her kids (including not understanding that diana was much more sympathetic than Charles) but that’s pretty common for moms. I think if she was younger she would have been able to manage the harry William problem better. She was very good at keeping a lid on drama and in her younger days probably would have been able to sit everyone down and tell them to suck it up.

I also think Meghan was dumb not to just wait out all th drama. The press would have gotten bored eventually if she just grey rocked the whole situation and she would eventually have been a boring middle aged princess with kids at Oxford or whatever. She let the press pull her off course. I guess maybe she likes her new life better though—who knows.

I also think if she put her head down the press would have gotten bored eventually. But it does sound like she was having a mental health crisis and truly wasn't able to do that. When it all calmed down, I think they should have nixed Spare and Oprah, but I also think they were both in a terrible headspace. I don't know, I hope the same thing that I would hope for any family: eventual reconciliation. Even if they like their life, I'm sure they don't like the current relationship with Harry's family, and maybe even her dad as well.

Agree they should have avoided Spare and Oprah. But also I get the impulse to correct the record, for example by saying, no Meghan didn't bully Kate over her wedding, in fact it was the other way around. Some of the bullying clearly came from the palaces, like that twisted bridesmaids' dresses story, and Harry and Meghan must have been in a terrible headspace knowing their family was behind a lot of it.

I dunno, were they right to correct the record? Or maybe just do Spare and skip Oprah, or something, or something less full-frontal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at what happened to every other royal family in the 20th century and it’s amazing that QE2 managed to do so well in finding a lane and sticking to it.

I don’t think she was particularly bright but she was dedicated and persistent. And anyone who ruled for 50 years is going yo have a few mis steps. She didn’t have great perspective on her kids (including not understanding that diana was much more sympathetic than Charles) but that’s pretty common for moms. I think if she was younger she would have been able to manage the harry William problem better. She was very good at keeping a lid on drama and in her younger days probably would have been able to sit everyone down and tell them to suck it up.

I also think Meghan was dumb not to just wait out all th drama. The press would have gotten bored eventually if she just grey rocked the whole situation and she would eventually have been a boring middle aged princess with kids at Oxford or whatever. She let the press pull her off course. I guess maybe she likes her new life better though—who knows.

I also think if she put her head down the press would have gotten bored eventually. But it does sound like she was having a mental health crisis and truly wasn't able to do that. When it all calmed down, I think they should have nixed Spare and Oprah, but I also think they were both in a terrible headspace. I don't know, I hope the same thing that I would hope for any family: eventual reconciliation. Even if they like their life, I'm sure they don't like the current relationship with Harry's family, and maybe even her dad as well.

Agree they should have avoided Spare and Oprah. But also I get the impulse to correct the record, for example by saying, no Meghan didn't bully Kate over her wedding, in fact it was the other way around. Some of the bullying clearly came from the palaces, like that twisted bridesmaids' dresses story, and Harry and Meghan must have been in a terrible headspace knowing their family was behind a lot of it.

I dunno, were they right to correct the record? Or maybe just do Spare and skip Oprah, or something, or something less full-frontal.

I actually read Spare and Harry came across as petty an delusional, in his own words. I have sympathy for Meghan who was a young mom struggling in an absolutely insane, foreign and toxic environment. Harry otoh seems terrible and caused his grandmother too much hurt. He planned the exit poorly and continues to be poorly exiting, perpetually coming up with new grievances. That's not how you end relationship you deem toxic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at what happened to every other royal family in the 20th century and it’s amazing that QE2 managed to do so well in finding a lane and sticking to it.

I don’t think she was particularly bright but she was dedicated and persistent. And anyone who ruled for 50 years is going yo have a few mis steps. She didn’t have great perspective on her kids (including not understanding that diana was much more sympathetic than Charles) but that’s pretty common for moms. I think if she was younger she would have been able to manage the harry William problem better. She was very good at keeping a lid on drama and in her younger days probably would have been able to sit everyone down and tell them to suck it up.

I also think Meghan was dumb not to just wait out all th drama. The press would have gotten bored eventually if she just grey rocked the whole situation and she would eventually have been a boring middle aged princess with kids at Oxford or whatever. She let the press pull her off course. I guess maybe she likes her new life better though—who knows.

I also think if she put her head down the press would have gotten bored eventually. But it does sound like she was having a mental health crisis and truly wasn't able to do that. When it all calmed down, I think they should have nixed Spare and Oprah, but I also think they were both in a terrible headspace. I don't know, I hope the same thing that I would hope for any family: eventual reconciliation. Even if they like their life, I'm sure they don't like the current relationship with Harry's family, and maybe even her dad as well.

Agree they should have avoided Spare and Oprah. But also I get the impulse to correct the record, for example by saying, no Meghan didn't bully Kate over her wedding, in fact it was the other way around. Some of the bullying clearly came from the palaces, like that twisted bridesmaids' dresses story, and Harry and Meghan must have been in a terrible headspace knowing their family was behind a lot of it.

I dunno, were they right to correct the record? Or maybe just do Spare and skip Oprah, or something, or something less full-frontal.

Yeah maybe correct the record in the press (but no book or Oprah), but not throw fuel on the fire by adding additional stories that nobody knew about. I also think Meagan should have sucked it up and not told the Kate story. I don't believe Kate was behind any leaked stories. I would have left her out of it, for the sake of a future relationship. I think she should have taken her lumps on that one story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at what happened to every other royal family in the 20th century and it’s amazing that QE2 managed to do so well in finding a lane and sticking to it.

I don’t think she was particularly bright but she was dedicated and persistent. And anyone who ruled for 50 years is going yo have a few mis steps. She didn’t have great perspective on her kids (including not understanding that diana was much more sympathetic than Charles) but that’s pretty common for moms. I think if she was younger she would have been able to manage the harry William problem better. She was very good at keeping a lid on drama and in her younger days probably would have been able to sit everyone down and tell them to suck it up.

I also think Meghan was dumb not to just wait out all th drama. The press would have gotten bored eventually if she just grey rocked the whole situation and she would eventually have been a boring middle aged princess with kids at Oxford or whatever. She let the press pull her off course. I guess maybe she likes her new life better though—who knows.

I also think if she put her head down the press would have gotten bored eventually. But it does sound like she was having a mental health crisis and truly wasn't able to do that. When it all calmed down, I think they should have nixed Spare and Oprah, but I also think they were both in a terrible headspace. I don't know, I hope the same thing that I would hope for any family: eventual reconciliation. Even if they like their life, I'm sure they don't like the current relationship with Harry's family, and maybe even her dad as well.

Agree they should have avoided Spare and Oprah. But also I get the impulse to correct the record, for example by saying, no Meghan didn't bully Kate over her wedding, in fact it was the other way around. Some of the bullying clearly came from the palaces, like that twisted bridesmaids' dresses story, and Harry and Meghan must have been in a terrible headspace knowing their family was behind a lot of it.

I dunno, were they right to correct the record? Or maybe just do Spare and skip Oprah, or something, or something less full-frontal.

Yeah maybe correct the record in the press (but no book or Oprah), but not throw fuel on the fire by adding additional stories that nobody knew about. I also think Meagan should have sucked it up and not told the Kate story. I don't believe Kate was behind any leaked stories. I would have left her out of it, for the sake of a future relationship. I think she should have taken her lumps on that one story.

One can endlessly debate the M & H story. But what gets me is that I just don't know what she was thinking marrying into that family. I mean, know thyself. And if that kind of thing is going to upset you, it seems really obvious that this is not the role for you. It's like running for President or something -- people are going to come for you in all sorts of nasty ways and you have to have the mindset to just ignore all of that, or you don't do it. The press tore Margaret apart in the 1950s and 1960s even, and that was back when the press was relatively tame. I just don't know what she was thinking. You either go into it knowing that you're going to get really hazed and you need to just block it all out, or you don't go into it at all. The press was really, really awful to Diana in the 1980s, but at some point flipped and then decided to laud her. That might have happened with M, but it's hard to say. They go up and down with Kate as well.

I feel like if the queen had been younger and more on top of things, maybe she could have seen the train wreck coming and tried to provide different support or guidance. She clearly loved Harry and i think would have wanted to find a way to smooth the waters, since that was her usual M.O. They all just come across as nest of vipers without her -- William hates Harry, Charles hates Andrew, etc. Edward seems to stay totally under the radar -- good for him!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at what happened to every other royal family in the 20th century and it’s amazing that QE2 managed to do so well in finding a lane and sticking to it.

I don’t think she was particularly bright but she was dedicated and persistent. And anyone who ruled for 50 years is going yo have a few mis steps. She didn’t have great perspective on her kids (including not understanding that diana was much more sympathetic than Charles) but that’s pretty common for moms. I think if she was younger she would have been able to manage the harry William problem better. She was very good at keeping a lid on drama and in her younger days probably would have been able to sit everyone down and tell them to suck it up.

I also think Meghan was dumb not to just wait out all th drama. The press would have gotten bored eventually if she just grey rocked the whole situation and she would eventually have been a boring middle aged princess with kids at Oxford or whatever. She let the press pull her off course. I guess maybe she likes her new life better though—who knows.

I also think if she put her head down the press would have gotten bored eventually. But it does sound like she was having a mental health crisis and truly wasn't able to do that. When it all calmed down, I think they should have nixed Spare and Oprah, but I also think they were both in a terrible headspace. I don't know, I hope the same thing that I would hope for any family: eventual reconciliation. Even if they like their life, I'm sure they don't like the current relationship with Harry's family, and maybe even her dad as well.

Agree they should have avoided Spare and Oprah. But also I get the impulse to correct the record, for example by saying, no Meghan didn't bully Kate over her wedding, in fact it was the other way around. Some of the bullying clearly came from the palaces, like that twisted bridesmaids' dresses story, and Harry and Meghan must have been in a terrible headspace knowing their family was behind a lot of it.

I dunno, were they right to correct the record? Or maybe just do Spare and skip Oprah, or something, or something less full-frontal.

I actually read Spare and Harry came across as petty an delusional, in his own words. I have sympathy for Meghan who was a young mom struggling in an absolutely insane, foreign and toxic environment. Harry otoh seems terrible and caused his grandmother too much hurt. He planned the exit poorly and continues to be poorly exiting, perpetually coming up with new grievances. That's not how you end relationship you deem toxic.

Obviously you have your own take. But I read Spare, and there's a part where the late Queen's private secretary, Clive Alderton was the one who forced their exit by not even bringing more options besides complete exit to the table, and then Alderton lied and said it was because BP's copy machine had broken (and Harry made a special trip to the office where he verified that was a lie). Moreover, Charles and William had forced out QEII's previous secretary, Geidt, so they could have their man Clive Alderton, whom Harry called The Wasp, basically running BP for the late Queen. Yes, I had to look that all up, but I do think placing the blame for Mexit on the Sussexes is unfair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at what happened to every other royal family in the 20th century and it’s amazing that QE2 managed to do so well in finding a lane and sticking to it.

I don’t think she was particularly bright but she was dedicated and persistent. And anyone who ruled for 50 years is going yo have a few mis steps. She didn’t have great perspective on her kids (including not understanding that diana was much more sympathetic than Charles) but that’s pretty common for moms. I think if she was younger she would have been able to manage the harry William problem better. She was very good at keeping a lid on drama and in her younger days probably would have been able to sit everyone down and tell them to suck it up.

I also think Meghan was dumb not to just wait out all th drama. The press would have gotten bored eventually if she just grey rocked the whole situation and she would eventually have been a boring middle aged princess with kids at Oxford or whatever. She let the press pull her off course. I guess maybe she likes her new life better though—who knows.

I also think if she put her head down the press would have gotten bored eventually. But it does sound like she was having a mental health crisis and truly wasn't able to do that. When it all calmed down, I think they should have nixed Spare and Oprah, but I also think they were both in a terrible headspace. I don't know, I hope the same thing that I would hope for any family: eventual reconciliation. Even if they like their life, I'm sure they don't like the current relationship with Harry's family, and maybe even her dad as well.

Agree they should have avoided Spare and Oprah. But also I get the impulse to correct the record, for example by saying, no Meghan didn't bully Kate over her wedding, in fact it was the other way around. Some of the bullying clearly came from the palaces, like that twisted bridesmaids' dresses story, and Harry and Meghan must have been in a terrible headspace knowing their family was behind a lot of it.

I dunno, were they right to correct the record? Or maybe just do Spare and skip Oprah, or something, or something less full-frontal.

Yeah maybe correct the record in the press (but no book or Oprah), but not throw fuel on the fire by adding additional stories that nobody knew about. I also think Meagan should have sucked it up and not told the Kate story. I don't believe Kate was behind any leaked stories. I would have left her out of it, for the sake of a future relationship. I think she should have taken her lumps on that one story.

One can endlessly debate the M & H story. But what gets me is that I just don't know what she was thinking marrying into that family. I mean, know thyself. And if that kind of thing is going to upset you, it seems really obvious that this is not the role for you. It's like running for President or something -- people are going to come for you in all sorts of nasty ways and you have to have the mindset to just ignore all of that, or you don't do it. The press tore Margaret apart in the 1950s and 1960s even, and that was back when the press was relatively tame. I just don't know what she was thinking. You either go into it knowing that you're going to get really hazed and you need to just block it all out, or you don't go into it at all. The press was really, really awful to Diana in the 1980s, but at some point flipped and then decided to laud her. That might have happened with M, but it's hard to say. They go up and down with Kate as well.

I feel like if the queen had been younger and more on top of things, maybe she could have seen the train wreck coming and tried to provide different support or guidance. She clearly loved Harry and i think would have wanted to find a way to smooth the waters, since that was her usual M.O. They all just come across as nest of vipers without her -- William hates Harry, Charles hates Andrew, etc. Edward seems to stay totally under the radar -- good for him!

Yeah, nest of vipers pretty much seems to describe it. I dunno what Meghan was thinking, but maybe she thought they had learned something from Diana, I dunno. Yes, good for Edward and Sophie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like she was overruled by William and the courtiers on the Harry work issue. In particular, a specific senior courtier William and Charles put in place when the Queen was declining in health. Harry wrote about going into the "Sandringham summit" thinking there were still several work options on the table, only to find this particular senior courtier (I'm forgetting his name) had only printed out documents for the "the Sussexes are completely out starting immediately" option.

The late Queen was clear that she wanted Harry and Meghan to keep their security, and also to keep their cottage. Charles and William pulled both of those back almost instantly. What else did the late Queen want for the Sussexes, that William and Charles overruled?

Please stop spreading this lie. Learn what RAVEC is and how it operates. RAVEC determines who receives state security and when. The BRF have never opposed Harry having state security in the UK (he’s exploiting it in Australia rn which isn’t going over well, and that goes directly to one of your points. He and Meghan are on a moneymaking trip and Oz is paying for security. It shows how half in and half out can’t work).

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like she was overruled by William and the courtiers on the Harry work issue. In particular, a specific senior courtier William and Charles put in place when the Queen was declining in health. Harry wrote about going into the "Sandringham summit" thinking there were still several work options on the table, only to find this particular senior courtier (I'm forgetting his name) had only printed out documents for the "the Sussexes are completely out starting immediately" option.

The late Queen was clear that she wanted Harry and Meghan to keep their security, and also to keep their cottage. Charles and William pulled both of those back almost instantly. What else did the late Queen want for the Sussexes, that William and Charles overruled?

Please stop spreading this lie. Learn what RAVEC is and how it operates. RAVEC determines who receives state security and when. The BRF have never opposed Harry having state security in the UK (he’s exploiting it in Australia rn which isn’t going over well, and that goes directly to one of your points. He and Meghan are on a moneymaking trip and Oz is paying for security. It shows how half in and half out can’t work).

+1

LOL. Someone didn't read the response to this, which explained that three of Charles and Williams' employees, including Charles' private secretary Clive Alderton, sit on RAVEC. Back in 2019, RAVEC did its last assessment of Harry and Meghan and put them at the highest threat level, but it hasn't done anything since; instead, RAVEC unilaterally cut their security. Tell us again how Charles' and William's people on RAVEC had nothing to do with this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at what happened to every other royal family in the 20th century and it’s amazing that QE2 managed to do so well in finding a lane and sticking to it.

I don’t think she was particularly bright but she was dedicated and persistent. And anyone who ruled for 50 years is going yo have a few mis steps. She didn’t have great perspective on her kids (including not understanding that diana was much more sympathetic than Charles) but that’s pretty common for moms. I think if she was younger she would have been able to manage the harry William problem better. She was very good at keeping a lid on drama and in her younger days probably would have been able to sit everyone down and tell them to suck it up.

I also think Meghan was dumb not to just wait out all th drama. The press would have gotten bored eventually if she just grey rocked the whole situation and she would eventually have been a boring middle aged princess with kids at Oxford or whatever. She let the press pull her off course. I guess maybe she likes her new life better though—who knows.

I also think if she put her head down the press would have gotten bored eventually. But it does sound like she was having a mental health crisis and truly wasn't able to do that. When it all calmed down, I think they should have nixed Spare and Oprah, but I also think they were both in a terrible headspace. I don't know, I hope the same thing that I would hope for any family: eventual reconciliation. Even if they like their life, I'm sure they don't like the current relationship with Harry's family, and maybe even her dad as well.

Agree they should have avoided Spare and Oprah. But also I get the impulse to correct the record, for example by saying, no Meghan didn't bully Kate over her wedding, in fact it was the other way around. Some of the bullying clearly came from the palaces, like that twisted bridesmaids' dresses story, and Harry and Meghan must have been in a terrible headspace knowing their family was behind a lot of it.

I dunno, were they right to correct the record? Or maybe just do Spare and skip Oprah, or something, or something less full-frontal.

Yeah maybe correct the record in the press (but no book or Oprah), but not throw fuel on the fire by adding additional stories that nobody knew about. I also think Meagan should have sucked it up and not told the Kate story. I don't believe Kate was behind any leaked stories. I would have left her out of it, for the sake of a future relationship. I think she should have taken her lumps on that one story.

One can endlessly debate the M & H story. But what gets me is that I just don't know what she was thinking marrying into that family. I mean, know thyself. And if that kind of thing is going to upset you, it seems really obvious that this is not the role for you. It's like running for President or something -- people are going to come for you in all sorts of nasty ways and you have to have the mindset to just ignore all of that, or you don't do it. The press tore Margaret apart in the 1950s and 1960s even, and that was back when the press was relatively tame. I just don't know what she was thinking. You either go into it knowing that you're going to get really hazed and you need to just block it all out, or you don't go into it at all. The press was really, really awful to Diana in the 1980s, but at some point flipped and then decided to laud her. That might have happened with M, but it's hard to say. They go up and down with Kate as well.

I feel like if the queen had been younger and more on top of things, maybe she could have seen the train wreck coming and tried to provide different support or guidance. She clearly loved Harry and i think would have wanted to find a way to smooth the waters, since that was her usual M.O. They all just come across as nest of vipers without her -- William hates Harry, Charles hates Andrew, etc. Edward seems to stay totally under the radar -- good for him!

I think Meghan knew the press would come for her but didn’t realize how the British media ecosystem differs from the American one. She has media training and in the United States even extremely unlikable people like the Kardashians and Lauren Sanchez have the opportunity to present their side. But with the royal rota the lower royals aren’t able to defend themselves and the ones that do rehab their image, like Camilla has done somewhat, do so by feeding stories to
the press on lower ranked royals.