why didnt the US build up EV infrastructure again?

[Anonymous]

Gas ICE cars are horribly inefficient. Even with the best modern tech, ICE waste most energy in gasoline as heat. It's simply the laws of thermodynamics. Iir, something like 35% of the energy in gas is used to move the vehicle. 65% of the money you spend on gas is wasted.

Contrast that to EVs. Electric is so much more efficient. The majority of the energy in batteries is used for actual motion of the car..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gas ICE cars are horribly inefficient. Even with the best modern tech, ICE waste most energy in gasoline as heat. It's simply the laws of thermodynamics. Iir, something like 35% of the energy in gas is used to move the vehicle. 65% of the money you spend on gas is wasted.

Contrast that to EVs. Electric is so much more efficient. The majority of the energy in batteries is used for actual motion of the car..

EVs are about 90% efficient while ICE cars about 25% efficient.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because electricity to my home for lights and refrigerators is more important than your sitting in traffic with your Tesla.

I mean transportation is important, but when push comes to shove, there is so much wasted energy running around that people can easily prioritize. But plugging in that EV sends energy bills through the roof.

Really when I plug in my EV I get the equivalent of a tank of gas for $15. A friend said they spent $85 on a tank of gas today.

You also do not seem to understand how EVs works. Sit in traffic does not waste energy in an EV. EVs are 95% efficient vs a gas car that wastes 2/3 of the energy in a gallon of gas due to thermal loss.

I’ll admit to knowing nothing about how cars work beyond “this pedal makes it go,” but that claim seemed sketchy to me too.

We have one gas-powered car and just got one EV, and we do almost all our driving in heavy DC traffic. The gas car has great MPG on the highway but terrible in the city because of how much it burns through when sitting at lights or otherwise in heavy traffic. We have to ignore the “25 miles left” type countdown when the gas tank gets low because even though it automatically adjusts for highway vs city, it doesn’t adjust enough and drops precipitously on the 2-mile round trip to school dropoff. Meanwhile when the EV isn’t actively driving, it just powers down and waits.

Since I’m weighing in, though, I will say that owning an EV in DC without the option of home charging has been a bigger headache than we expected. The charging infrastructure just isn’t there, so what IS there is always taken. It has been a constant battle, and I don’t think we’ve made it all the way to a full “tank” a single time in the month that we’ve had the car. DC announced a pilot program for curbside chargers, and even that is both some point in the future and ONE unit per ward, so I don’t anticipate this getting much better any time soon.

Here you go.

U.S. residents are collectively burning about 8.9 million barrels of gasoline a day, or a little over one gallon each for every person in the country. That enormous sum has decreased by around 5% from the nation’s peak gasoline use in 2018.

Today’s gasoline-fueled cars and trucks waste around 80% of the energy that gets pumped into their gas tanks. A car heats up as it burns fuel to move pistons and propel the wheels. The heat is not needed to move the car, so it is vented off, carrying away most of the energy in the fuel. This isn’t necessarily a design flaw; it’s an inevitable part of thermodynamics. Burning fuel to create motion tends to be an energy-wasting proposition.

Electric vehicles operate with only around 11% energy loss, meaning that most of the energy that goes into the car ends up turning the wheels. Because the vehicle doesn’t burn fuel, there is no thermodynamic penalty for converting heat to motion. Also, EVs can recapture energy during braking, boosting overall efficiency.

https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2024/01/electric-vehicles-use-half-the-energy-of-gas-powered-vehicles/#:~:text=Today's%20gasoline%2Dfueled%20cars%20and,be%20an%20energy%2Dwasting%20proposition.

Let’s say your gas car gets 20 mile per gallon. The total potential energy in a gallon of gas if used at 100 efficiency by your car would give you 100 miles per gallon.

This applies to all fossil fuel- coal, natural gas, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gas ICE cars are horribly inefficient. Even with the best modern tech, ICE waste most energy in gasoline as heat. It's simply the laws of thermodynamics. Iir, something like 35% of the energy in gas is used to move the vehicle. 65% of the money you spend on gas is wasted.

Contrast that to EVs. Electric is so much more efficient. The majority of the energy in batteries is used for actual motion of the car..

You are comparing apples to oranges. The ICE vehicle is an energy conversion machine, whereas the EV is a post-energy conversion machine.

If you are charging the EV with solar, you are only going to capture about 30% of the raw energy that hits the panel (theoretical limit of energy that solar can capture is about 35% —of course the sun is so abundant that this inefficiency can be lived with). If you are charging with natural gas-derived electricity, depending on the technology, you are going to lose anywhere from 40 to 70% of the energy you started with in the natural gas molecule converting it to electricity (you’ll lose more in transmission). Coal will be worse. And we haven’t even talked about the 5-20% energy loss in the battery charging process.

If you normalize it, you’ll find that both electric and ICE are pretty inefficient.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, look at that - US invades yet another ME country, and this time it looks like it is catastrophic. Saudi Aramco is warning global energy infrastructure is on the verge of collapse. It will be real fun paying $9/gallon for gas.

Why has the US not moved on from completely obsolete tech (ICE) that is 200 years old? Iran's threats would matter far less if we had more robust transportation immune to energy shocks. Why is this so hard to understand? EVs FTW
.

The uni-party killed EVs because Wall Street, Big Tech, and Defense Inc. need the power grid for the data centers. How is this not incredibly obvious? Blaming Trump and Republicans is really juvenile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, look at that - US invades yet another ME country, and this time it looks like it is catastrophic. Saudi Aramco is warning global energy infrastructure is on the verge of collapse. It will be real fun paying $9/gallon for gas.

Why has the US not moved on from completely obsolete tech (ICE) that is 200 years old? Iran's threats would matter far less if we had more robust transportation immune to energy shocks. Why is this so hard to understand? EVs FTW
.

The uni-party killed EVs because Wall Street, Big Tech, and Defense Inc. need the power grid for the data centers. How is this not incredibly obvious? Blaming Trump and Republicans is really juvenile.

*Defense Inc / Surveillance Inc / Military contractors like Palantir

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, look at that - US invades yet another ME country, and this time it looks like it is catastrophic. Saudi Aramco is warning global energy infrastructure is on the verge of collapse. It will be real fun paying $9/gallon for gas.

Why has the US not moved on from completely obsolete tech (ICE) that is 200 years old? Iran's threats would matter far less if we had more robust transportation immune to energy shocks. Why is this so hard to understand? EVs FTW
.

The uni-party killed EVs because Wall Street, Big Tech, and Defense Inc. need the power grid for the data centers. How is this not incredibly obvious? Blaming Trump and Republicans is really juvenile.

*Defense Inc / Surveillance Inc / Military contractors like Palantir

This. I do wonder if that’s also why RFK Jr is fielding vaccines and healthcare's is going to shxt and too expensive for so many anyway. Too many humans using electricity they’d rather send to data centers. Maybe one day the uni-party will just destroy entire towns and push people out — kill the town—or city?— to send electricity to data centers to power AI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gas ICE cars are horribly inefficient. Even with the best modern tech, ICE waste most energy in gasoline as heat. It's simply the laws of thermodynamics. Iir, something like 35% of the energy in gas is used to move the vehicle. 65% of the money you spend on gas is wasted.

Contrast that to EVs. Electric is so much more efficient. The majority of the energy in batteries is used for actual motion of the car..

You are comparing apples to oranges. The ICE vehicle is an energy conversion machine, whereas the EV is a post-energy conversion machine.

If you are charging the EV with solar, you are only going to capture about 30% of the raw energy that hits the panel (theoretical limit of energy that solar can capture is about 35% —of course the sun is so abundant that this inefficiency can be lived with). If you are charging with natural gas-derived electricity, depending on the technology, you are going to lose anywhere from 40 to 70% of the energy you started with in the natural gas molecule converting it to electricity (you’ll lose more in transmission). Coal will be worse. And we haven’t even talked about the 5-20% energy loss in the battery charging process.

If you normalize it, you’ll find that both electric and ICE are pretty inefficient.

I've got a pocket calculator with a solar panel, and I say my AI data center is clean because I use solar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gas ICE cars are horribly inefficient. Even with the best modern tech, ICE waste most energy in gasoline as heat. It's simply the laws of thermodynamics. Iir, something like 35% of the energy in gas is used to move the vehicle. 65% of the money you spend on gas is wasted.

Contrast that to EVs. Electric is so much more efficient. The majority of the energy in batteries is used for actual motion of the car..

You are comparing apples to oranges. The ICE vehicle is an energy conversion machine, whereas the EV is a post-energy conversion machine.

If you are charging the EV with solar, you are only going to capture about 30% of the raw energy that hits the panel (theoretical limit of energy that solar can capture is about 35% —of course the sun is so abundant that this inefficiency can be lived with). If you are charging with natural gas-derived electricity, depending on the technology, you are going to lose anywhere from 40 to 70% of the energy you started with in the natural gas molecule converting it to electricity (you’ll lose more in transmission). Coal will be worse. And we haven’t even talked about the 5-20% energy loss in the battery charging process.

If you normalize it, you’ll find that both electric and ICE are pretty inefficient.

Yeah, but you also spend energy drilling and refining oil into gas. Also, massive amounts of more energy wasted to ship it. The amount of energy solar captures is superfluous, because it is free energy from the sun.

The US should be prioritizing renewables, along with EV infrastructure. The ME would matter far less if we had built in resistance to energy shocks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, look at that - US invades yet another ME country, and this time it looks like it is catastrophic. Saudi Aramco is warning global energy infrastructure is on the verge of collapse. It will be real fun paying $9/gallon for gas.

Why has the US not moved on from completely obsolete tech (ICE) that is 200 years old? Iran's threats would matter far less if we had more robust transportation immune to energy shocks. Why is this so hard to understand? EVs FTW
.

The uni-party killed EVs because Wall Street, Big Tech, and Defense Inc. need the power grid for the data centers. How is this not incredibly obvious? Blaming Trump and Republicans is really juvenile.

Please explain what Democrats had to do with this, TIA!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MAGA was against EVs, until Musk dumped millions of $$$ into GOP coffers. Then all of the sudden, the White House is a Tesla car lot.

Now? They're probably back to hating them.

Pretty moronic to be hating EVs right now given the oil crisis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gas ICE cars are horribly inefficient. Even with the best modern tech, ICE waste most energy in gasoline as heat. It's simply the laws of thermodynamics. Iir, something like 35% of the energy in gas is used to move the vehicle. 65% of the money you spend on gas is wasted.

Contrast that to EVs. Electric is so much more efficient. The majority of the energy in batteries is used for actual motion of the car..

You are comparing apples to oranges. The ICE vehicle is an energy conversion machine, whereas the EV is a post-energy conversion machine.

If you are charging the EV with solar, you are only going to capture about 30% of the raw energy that hits the panel (theoretical limit of energy that solar can capture is about 35% —of course the sun is so abundant that this inefficiency can be lived with). If you are charging with natural gas-derived electricity, depending on the technology, you are going to lose anywhere from 40 to 70% of the energy you started with in the natural gas molecule converting it to electricity (you’ll lose more in transmission). Coal will be worse. And we haven’t even talked about the 5-20% energy loss in the battery charging process.

If you normalize it, you’ll find that both electric and ICE are pretty inefficient.

With solar and EVs you can just get more energy from the sun. With internal combustion, once you've burned it, it's gone. We're burning through the equivalent of millions of years worth of fossilized accumulated biomass.

A friend just got back from visiting Beijing for the first time in 10 years. He was shocked at how far China has come, through the use of EVs and renewables. Their air quality has improved dramatically, they use solar and wind and use hydro reservoirs to store generated electricity to even out for peak demand times and night time use and so on. They are actually on an aggressive path of clean and renewable, making investments that we stopped investing in. We are falling behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, look at that - US invades yet another ME country, and this time it looks like it is catastrophic. Saudi Aramco is warning global energy infrastructure is on the verge of collapse. It will be real fun paying $9/gallon for gas.

Why has the US not moved on from completely obsolete tech (ICE) that is 200 years old? Iran's threats would matter far less if we had more robust transportation immune to energy shocks. Why is this so hard to understand? EVs FTW
.

You're free to buy an EV. Don't ask me to give you endless subsidies for them.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, look at that - US invades yet another ME country, and this time it looks like it is catastrophic. Saudi Aramco is warning global energy infrastructure is on the verge of collapse. It will be real fun paying $9/gallon for gas.

Why has the US not moved on from completely obsolete tech (ICE) that is 200 years old? Iran's threats would matter far less if we had more robust transportation immune to energy shocks. Why is this so hard to understand? EVs FTW
.

You're free to buy an EV. Don't ask me to give you endless subsidies for them.

Were you asked for the endless subsidies provided for petroleum?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gas ICE cars are horribly inefficient. Even with the best modern tech, ICE waste most energy in gasoline as heat. It's simply the laws of thermodynamics. Iir, something like 35% of the energy in gas is used to move the vehicle. 65% of the money you spend on gas is wasted.

Contrast that to EVs. Electric is so much more efficient. The majority of the energy in batteries is used for actual motion of the car..

You are comparing apples to oranges. The ICE vehicle is an energy conversion machine, whereas the EV is a post-energy conversion machine.

If you are charging the EV with solar, you are only going to capture about 30% of the raw energy that hits the panel (theoretical limit of energy that solar can capture is about 35% —of course the sun is so abundant that this inefficiency can be lived with). If you are charging with natural gas-derived electricity, depending on the technology, you are going to lose anywhere from 40 to 70% of the energy you started with in the natural gas molecule converting it to electricity (you’ll lose more in transmission). Coal will be worse. And we haven’t even talked about the 5-20% energy loss in the battery charging process.

If you normalize it, you’ll find that both electric and ICE are pretty inefficient.

With solar and EVs you can just get more energy from the sun. With internal combustion, once you've burned it, it's gone. We're burning through the equivalent of millions of years worth of fossilized accumulated biomass.

A friend just got back from visiting Beijing for the first time in 10 years. He was shocked at how far China has come, through the use of EVs and renewables. Their air quality has improved dramatically, they use solar and wind and use hydro reservoirs to store generated electricity to even out for peak demand times and night time use and so on. They are actually on an aggressive path of clean and renewable, making investments that we stopped investing in. We are falling behind.

What kind of cars were they driving? I already drive a Subaru Impreza, I don't see the functional difference between that and a Tesla. I really don't think my trading buying an EV instead will move the needle. It will likely cause a bigger amount of environmental damage to manufacture the Tesla, lithium, copper etc.

China mostly doesn't drive cars anyway. They are actually growing their car transportation base, most of the cleanups were likely realized in industry.

Let me know when the big boys in their SUVs go EV when they sit in traffic to get to their political fund raiser down in DC.