How do you teach kids to be moral, kind, and respectful when many successful people aren't?

[Anonymous]

Most kids will learn by example and will pick up a lot more from their parents and caregivers actions than they do from the CEO of Amazon.

[Anonymous]

I was just having this realization lately OP. Supposedly we are a rule based "civilization" and every single day adults show kids that rules dont matter because they wont be enforced. And sometimes it is little things but again, these are all little white lie/actions that cumulatively snowball into a lawless society.

Every day we see:
1. People using HOV without 2+ people in the car
2. People driving up an exit only lane, passing all opportunities to merge until slamming on their brakes and having to wait to merge thus holding up those actually exiting
3. The most recent storm showed people dont care about kids or those who walk. Just this past weekend, people were finally out shoveling their sidewalks. The storm happened on 1/25. It was 2/14. Did the city or county fine them? No. So why would they shovel? Were their driveways shoveled? You betcha. There are two neighbors with corner lots in our neighborhood who didnt shovel at all and still haven't.
4. People dont open doors. Dont offer help or assistance. Dont look out for neighbors. They park in the fire lane to go pick up their Chipotle order instead of walking their fat a$$es 20 yards.

Then there's school- kids who don't listen get the attention. Kids get lollipops after going to the principal's office. Kids take other kids pencils and supplies and if the kid complains they get told not to be a tattletale or to deal with it themselves but then when said kid asks for the pencil back, they are told not to be disruptive or let it go. Middle school is basically a fight or two every day. Physical or sexual assault is normalized. Giving HS kids access to alcohol at parent-hosted parties.

Congress can make insider trading and become millionaires. The Trump admin is outright unethical and self-serving,
Government doesn't enforce rules. People who hurt children or women are given slaps on the wrist.

So yeah. I struggle with this. In the day-to-day of raising kids it feels like all the lessons we try to teach them and what we model in our home is not going to helpful for them out in the "real world".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was just having this realization lately OP. Supposedly we are a rule based "civilization" and every single day adults show kids that rules dont matter because they wont be enforced. And sometimes it is little things but again, these are all little white lie/actions that cumulatively snowball into a lawless society.

Every day we see:
1. People using HOV without 2+ people in the car
2. People driving up an exit only lane, passing all opportunities to merge until slamming on their brakes and having to wait to merge thus holding up those actually exiting
3. The most recent storm showed people dont care about kids or those who walk. Just this past weekend, people were finally out shoveling their sidewalks. The storm happened on 1/25. It was 2/14. Did the city or county fine them? No. So why would they shovel? Were their driveways shoveled? You betcha. There are two neighbors with corner lots in our neighborhood who didnt shovel at all and still haven't.
4. People dont open doors. Dont offer help or assistance. Dont look out for neighbors. They park in the fire lane to go pick up their Chipotle order instead of walking their fat a$$es 20 yards.

Then there's school- kids who don't listen get the attention. Kids get lollipops after going to the principal's office. Kids take other kids pencils and supplies and if the kid complains they get told not to be a tattletale or to deal with it themselves but then when said kid asks for the pencil back, they are told not to be disruptive or let it go. Middle school is basically a fight or two every day. Physical or sexual assault is normalized. Giving HS kids access to alcohol at parent-hosted parties.

Congress can make insider trading and become millionaires. The Trump admin is outright unethical and self-serving,
Government doesn't enforce rules. People who hurt children or women are given slaps on the wrist.

So yeah. I struggle with this. In the day-to-day of raising kids it feels like all the lessons we try to teach them and what we model in our home is not going to helpful for them out in the "real world".

I’m curious about what you guys are doing about these realizations. I have been noticing that reality seems to inherently reward evil behavior over good and I am not sure what to do about it. I fundamentally cannot raise my kids to be selfish and unethical so where does that leave me? Just accept poverty and suffering as the price to pay for having ethics? Sheesh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just having this realization lately OP. Supposedly we are a rule based "civilization" and every single day adults show kids that rules dont matter because they wont be enforced. And sometimes it is little things but again, these are all little white lie/actions that cumulatively snowball into a lawless society.

Every day we see:
1. People using HOV without 2+ people in the car
2. People driving up an exit only lane, passing all opportunities to merge until slamming on their brakes and having to wait to merge thus holding up those actually exiting
3. The most recent storm showed people dont care about kids or those who walk. Just this past weekend, people were finally out shoveling their sidewalks. The storm happened on 1/25. It was 2/14. Did the city or county fine them? No. So why would they shovel? Were their driveways shoveled? You betcha. There are two neighbors with corner lots in our neighborhood who didnt shovel at all and still haven't.
4. People dont open doors. Dont offer help or assistance. Dont look out for neighbors. They park in the fire lane to go pick up their Chipotle order instead of walking their fat a$$es 20 yards.

Then there's school- kids who don't listen get the attention. Kids get lollipops after going to the principal's office. Kids take other kids pencils and supplies and if the kid complains they get told not to be a tattletale or to deal with it themselves but then when said kid asks for the pencil back, they are told not to be disruptive or let it go. Middle school is basically a fight or two every day. Physical or sexual assault is normalized. Giving HS kids access to alcohol at parent-hosted parties.

Congress can make insider trading and become millionaires. The Trump admin is outright unethical and self-serving,
Government doesn't enforce rules. People who hurt children or women are given slaps on the wrist.

So yeah. I struggle with this. In the day-to-day of raising kids it feels like all the lessons we try to teach them and what we model in our home is not going to helpful for them out in the "real world".

I’m curious about what you guys are doing about these realizations. I have been noticing that reality seems to inherently reward evil behavior over good and I am not sure what to do about it. I fundamentally cannot raise my kids to be selfish and unethical so where does that leave me? Just accept poverty and suffering as the price to pay for having ethics? Sheesh.

DP but if you notice the list from PP, they are all insignificant things. Bad behavior can get you ahead on some little things, like getting somewhere 2 mins faster, but I don't believe it confers any real advantages. It won't make you poor to be a good person. Pick a good career and work hard. You might not be a billionaire but you can be very well off.

[Anonymous]

redefine what success it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know how you can teach kids to be well behaved and good people when many powerful people aren't. Just look at the politicians we have. I also know many people who scream everyday at work and call people useless or the r word who managed to get promoted to director at Fortune 100 companies. Society doesn't value being respectful. I personally wish I was more of an aggressive a hole growing up to be honest

According to me, then, you aren't successful -- but not because you haven't achieved more, but because you think that being an aggressive a hole would have been an acceptable goal/method to be "successful" by traditional metrics of society you seem to also condemn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you have to redefine your definition of success. For example, Bill Gates is super rich, however he is an alleged child molester. Not a successful human being

Is he? Or was he just associated with Epstein?

Not that the latter is something to brag about, but I am sick of the idea that just because you know someone who is a child abuser, or even that you are friends with them, that you are also an abuser. Most people don't know about abuse -- womanizing (which some of these men did seem to know) is very different (still distasteful, but totally other category). And I am as anti-MAGA as it gets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm surprised that no one has commented that this is mostly innate. I think people who don't have a strong sense of morals can act good when that is what is expected in society for certain payoffs, and so I guess it does make it harder to raise these kids to stay in line. But I now believe the really good, moral people are simply born that way. I see this with my two kids. Same genetic pool, same upbringing environment, very different innate sense of right and wrong. And if I look closely, I could tell the difference from very early on, like about 12 months old. One gets the most satisfaction from being good. The other gets most satisfaction from benefitting themselves. The kids are in a school that really emphasizes good moral character so it will be an interesting experiment to see if the school can indeed affect the moral development of my second child. But as the mother, I can confidently say they were not born on the same footing.

Don't disagree, but I also think that we are fooling ourselves if we say two siblings had the "exac same" upbringing. You were different and you parent differently, and the environment is different (e.g., a sibling) between 1 and 2.

[Anonymous]

You model the behavior you want them to have yourself. Talk the talk and walk the walk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just having this realization lately OP. Supposedly we are a rule based "civilization" and every single day adults show kids that rules dont matter because they wont be enforced. And sometimes it is little things but again, these are all little white lie/actions that cumulatively snowball into a lawless society.

Every day we see:
1. People using HOV without 2+ people in the car
2. People driving up an exit only lane, passing all opportunities to merge until slamming on their brakes and having to wait to merge thus holding up those actually exiting
3. The most recent storm showed people dont care about kids or those who walk. Just this past weekend, people were finally out shoveling their sidewalks. The storm happened on 1/25. It was 2/14. Did the city or county fine them? No. So why would they shovel? Were their driveways shoveled? You betcha. There are two neighbors with corner lots in our neighborhood who didnt shovel at all and still haven't.
4. People dont open doors. Dont offer help or assistance. Dont look out for neighbors. They park in the fire lane to go pick up their Chipotle order instead of walking their fat a$$es 20 yards.

Then there's school- kids who don't listen get the attention. Kids get lollipops after going to the principal's office. Kids take other kids pencils and supplies and if the kid complains they get told not to be a tattletale or to deal with it themselves but then when said kid asks for the pencil back, they are told not to be disruptive or let it go. Middle school is basically a fight or two every day. Physical or sexual assault is normalized. Giving HS kids access to alcohol at parent-hosted parties.

Congress can make insider trading and become millionaires. The Trump admin is outright unethical and self-serving,
Government doesn't enforce rules. People who hurt children or women are given slaps on the wrist.

So yeah. I struggle with this. In the day-to-day of raising kids it feels like all the lessons we try to teach them and what we model in our home is not going to helpful for them out in the "real world".

I’m curious about what you guys are doing about these realizations. I have been noticing that reality seems to inherently reward evil behavior over good and I am not sure what to do about it. I fundamentally cannot raise my kids to be selfish and unethical so where does that leave me? Just accept poverty and suffering as the price to pay for having ethics? Sheesh.

DP but if you notice the list from PP, they are all insignificant things. Bad behavior can get you ahead on some little things, like getting somewhere 2 mins faster, but I don't believe it confers any real advantages. It won't make you poor to be a good person. Pick a good career and work hard. You might not be a billionaire but you can be very well off.

Wow so to be clear you think not following rules and laws is insignificant...?

I started with small things because it's not just the big, powerful people. It trickles down into day-to-day community interactions. What is the point of having a HOV lane if it isnt enforced? There is a REASON for it. Just because it doesnt confer a huge or significant advantage doesnt mean that not obeying the rules/laws does not slowly denigrate the society we live in. If only 10% of people are following a rule/law, it becomes that those following the laws are at a disadvantage.

It chips away at community cohesiveness and honestly for all the backlash against permissive parenting, it sure feels like the entire US is one permissive pissing contest.

Even if you are a "good" person not a billionaire who picks a good career and works hard if you are still a shite in your day-to-day interactions you are not a good person. The problem has become that if you arent a rapist, pedophile, fraud, money launderer, pimp, arms dealer, AI tech bro bent on destroying our collective rise as a society, murderer, etc then you are relatively good. That cannot be the metric. And you could say some of those things are directly hurting anyone- for example, sharing passwords for streaming services which is illegal but its illegal because of corporate greed and profit maximizing. Not following road rules is for safety. I dont do either because both are rules but as a society the crackdown is on the former not the latter and it infiltrates our children's minds when they see what rules are being enforced. What we, as a society, choose to say matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you have to redefine your definition of success. For example, Bill Gates is super rich, however he is an alleged child molester. Not a successful human being

Is he? Or was he just associated with Epstein?

Not that the latter is something to brag about, but I am sick of the idea that just because you know someone who is a child abuser, or even that you are friends with them, that you are also an abuser. Most people don't know about abuse -- womanizing (which some of these men did seem to know) is very different (still distasteful, but totally other category). And I am as anti-MAGA as it gets.

You're right, all we know is that he's a customer of prostitutes and infected his wife with an STD and then tried to secretly drug her.

Keep up the good work defending a lifelong corporate criminal turned adulterer and domestic abuser!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It has gotten much harder. We put our kids in private schools that emphasize kindness and have classes on morals and ethics. And of course you are the main model - so be kind!

I find the private school kids the most obnoxious,

[Anonymous]

Take them to funerals. When I was a young adult, I went to the funeral of a relative where colleagues spoke in glowing terms about the deceased’s professional accomplishments. One adult child gave a moving and honest speech about their complicated history and relationship and another wasn’t there because they were estranged. It was a formative experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you have to redefine your definition of success. For example, Bill Gates is super rich, however he is an alleged child molester. Not a successful human being

Is he? Or was he just associated with Epstein?

Not that the latter is something to brag about, but I am sick of the idea that just because you know someone who is a child abuser, or even that you are friends with them, that you are also an abuser. Most people don't know about abuse -- womanizing (which some of these men did seem to know) is very different (still distasteful, but totally other category). And I am as anti-MAGA as it gets.

You're right, all we know is that he's a customer of prostitutes and infected his wife with an STD and then tried to secretly drug her.

Keep up the good work defending a lifelong corporate criminal turned adulterer and domestic abuser!

I am the person you are quoting -- I actually didn't know that, I haven't been following that part closely. So yeah sounds scummy. Still not in the neighborhood of pedofile and rapist, but bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you have to redefine your definition of success. For example, Bill Gates is super rich, however he is an alleged child molester. Not a successful human being

Is he? Or was he just associated with Epstein?

Not that the latter is something to brag about, but I am sick of the idea that just because you know someone who is a child abuser, or even that you are friends with them, that you are also an abuser. Most people don't know about abuse -- womanizing (which some of these men did seem to know) is very different (still distasteful, but totally other category). And I am as anti-MAGA as it gets.

You're right, all we know is that he's a customer of prostitutes and infected his wife with an STD and then tried to secretly drug her.

Keep up the good work defending a lifelong corporate criminal turned adulterer and domestic abuser!

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