Gifted vs Autism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Again, you sound you hinged. Reread what you type.

Stop pressuring your kid. Sitting next to her and she does better? You need to take a breath.

I actually don't understand what you are saying. If you're saying I'm pressuring her to do better, I am not. I do tell her I that if she could get her homework done more efficiently, she would have a lot more time to do more of the things that she enjoys doing. And I tell her all the time that the grades are not important, especially in middle school. I tell her this is the time to develop a good foundation for work/study habits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. It looks like there are different types of neuropsychological evaluations. Which should I consider?

I'm still undecided. I think if any of her teachers knew I was even considering getting her tested, they would think I was nuts. She's a model student. In 3rd grade, when I brought up the possibility of some issues she might have to her teacher, he also thought I was nuts.

Educators are not qualified to rule out neurodevelopmental conditions. Everything you describe sounds like there is something going on, and your child could benefit enormously from understanding and support.

The different "types" of neuropsychs are those covered by insurance and those not covered by insurance. But the evaluator matters. Many are not confident enough to diagnose autism. You want someone who can confidently diagnose it or rule it out. We used Dr. Rochelle Drill at CAAT and she is amazing. However, CAAT is out of network for in insurance. Our insurance reimburses for out of network claims, so we were able to get some money back.

[Anonymous]

Your kid may have a high iq but they are not neurotypical. Sorry.
That eidetic memory thing...I used to have it as a child. In tests I could mentally "read" the pages of the text to look up stuff. I lost most of it but still know if I read something in NYT or WaPo by the image of the font in my head.
That's not necessarily ASD. I am NT with a high IQ and visual memory skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s never ‘giftedness’. That’s just denial

When looking at the traits side by side, it is honestly hard to distinguish. If anything, I'd say she is more aligned with the gifted side. She's a straight A student, and tests as gifted and/or advanced in all areas.

you're conflating two things.

Being smart and being neurodiverse. There is no evidence that just being smart results in abnormal behavior. Lots of people are extremely smart and not neurodiverse. Lots of people are extremely smart and neurodiverse. One does not 'mimic' the other.

I know a lot of really smart people. They may or may not be “neurodivergent” in that they legitimately qualify for a DSM diagnosis, but they definitely are not like other people. High intelligence just makes you different. I know other people who are just regular smart and successful and they are yes, normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A neuropsych.

Also, I disagree with the stereotype that gifted kids lack empathy as a result of the brilliance. My smartest kid is also my most empathetic/intuitive when it comes to emotions and that’s not uncommon.

+1
I have 2 gifted kids and there is zero possibility of mistaking them for autistic. Nothing is similar. I do think autistic kids can also be gifted and they will have both sets of traits.

My gifted kids are very social and empathetic - you can't really tell them apart from the other kids except their jokes a re a bit sharper and they have large vocabularies - although they don't use that with their friends - they are also gifted with social awareness.

Not buying it. Scoring in the top 95% or getting straight As is not “gifted.” Your kids are probably very bright and may be very successful but they don’t sound gifted.

[Anonymous]

There are many links between autism and high IQ - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4927579/

That’s not to say you ignore the needs of a high IQ kid on the grounds that it is “just” giftedness. But I move in circles with extraordinarily people and they are definitely not neurotypical in general. Merely smart people - sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are many links between autism and high IQ - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4927579/

That’s not to say you ignore the needs of a high IQ kid on the grounds that it is “just” giftedness. But I move in circles with extraordinarily people and they are definitely not neurotypical in general. Merely smart people - sure.

DP
I think giftedness itself is a form of neurodivergence and can certainly present challenges (e.g. not having access to an appropriate curriculum in school, trouble finding similar people to connect with just like anyone who differs from average).

But I have a an old friend from college who is definitely gifted who is not autistic. She sometimes rubs people who don't know her well the wrong way, and I think a lot of it is envy. She's always had a lot of friends and long term relationships. She definitely made me feel inadequate at times because she was so smart and also so socially adept and kind and didn't struggle in the ways I did as a regular IQ, possibly autistic but undiagnosed person.

[Anonymous]

A lot of red flags for autism.
I don’t see the gifted part. Only some splinter skills that won’t help her in the long run since her challenges appear to be more prominent than her skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are many links between autism and high IQ - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4927579/

That’s not to say you ignore the needs of a high IQ kid on the grounds that it is “just” giftedness. But I move in circles with extraordinarily people and they are definitely not neurotypical in general. Merely smart people - sure.

DP
I think giftedness itself is a form of neurodivergence and can certainly present challenges (e.g. not having access to an appropriate curriculum in school, trouble finding similar people to connect with just like anyone who differs from average).

But I have a an old friend from college who is definitely gifted who is not autistic. She sometimes rubs people who don't know her well the wrong way, and I think a lot of it is envy. She's always had a lot of friends and long term relationships. She definitely made me feel inadequate at times because she was so smart and also so socially adept and kind and didn't struggle in the ways I did as a regular IQ, possibly autistic but undiagnosed person.

Even after 40 years DH will complain about my social skills and communication style. I am very high IQ with fast processing, i tend to communicate fast, nonlinearly branching out with asides and caveats and he loses the thread listening.


If it's written it is clear but he says he is very linear. I truly doubt I am ND.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of the traits described in autism sound very similar to traits found in "gifted" students. How do you know if it's giftedness vs autism?

Gifted high achievers also have strong executive functioning skills, communication skills, can regulate their emotions. And can be a very strong team athlete too. The triple or quadruple threats.

Gifted 2E students, not so much or only for select hyper interests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the traits described in autism sound very similar to traits found in "gifted" students. How do you know if it's giftedness vs autism?

Gifted high achievers also have strong executive functioning skills, communication skills, can regulate their emotions. And can be a very strong team athlete too. The triple or quadruple threats.

Gifted 2E students, not so much or only for select hyper interests.

lol I guess you’ve never met a lot of truly gifted high achievers. You are describing very fortunate people but likely not very high IQ people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s all labels. What problem or symptom do you see?

Social struggles, becoming more apparent as time goes on (now 8th grade). I've always had to support a lot with nurturing those friendships, but at this age, it falls on the kids more, and she struggles with those skills, or claims that she would rather spend time to herself or doesn't need friends. Maybe it's also that she is about 2 years behind physically/emotionally in maturity.

Lack of flexibility or wanting to try things. And this is not a problem, but it's just a trait- she still engages in many of the things she engaged in as a small child. Playing in sand, collecting found nature and mixing them together, observing a worm for a good 20 minutes, for example.

Lack of time awareness. 1 hour often feels like 5 minutes to her.

General slowness and lack of ability to focus on schoolwork. Homework that should take 50 minutes, quite often takes her 5 hours. But she always gets it all done, and pretty much receives perfect marks in all subjects. The only time she does not is when she forgets to turn something in.

Also, struggles in the daily basics. Lacks EF skills. Planning, organizing skills are non-existent. And hygiene stuff continues to be a struggle even at this age and we often have to remind or force her. Forgetting to brush teeth, not brushing hair for literally several weeks. And forgetting to eat. If we are not home to prepare her meals, she simply does not remember to eat. Still has to be reminded to come to the table for meals.

What?!

Our adhd asd girl did this on her own finally because of middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the traits described in autism sound very similar to traits found in "gifted" students. How do you know if it's giftedness vs autism?

You can have both. You can also be an average person with Autism

All matches can be had, including being a brilliant person without autism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s never ‘giftedness’. That’s just denial

When looking at the traits side by side, it is honestly hard to distinguish. If anything, I'd say she is more aligned with the gifted side. She's a straight A student, and tests as gifted and/or advanced in all areas.

you're conflating two things.

Being smart and being neurodiverse. There is no evidence that just being smart results in abnormal behavior. Lots of people are extremely smart and not neurodiverse. Lots of people are extremely smart and neurodiverse. One does not 'mimic' the other.

Well, I'm not sure what you really mean by "smart". She's not "smart" when it comes to remembering her teacher's names, or knowing how to problem-solve. But she's extremely book-smart when it comes to random nature facts or her ability to understand the basic tenets of quantum physics.

I'd say that anyone who is gifted is neurodiverse by definition. Giftedness is quite rare and "abnormal" as you say.

Lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is this thread? Giftedness and autism are different. Some people have both. Some don’t.

People are who gifted and highly social sometimes don’t look gifted because they focus their energy on high EQ activities like organizing and leading groups of people.

The inward, logical thinking of autism lends itself to spending more time on academic activities and math, which can look like the “and talented” side of “gifted and talented”, or give giftedness more visibility.

Agree.

Also want to note that gifted likely autistic people who went deep in one area of academic or industry work were heavily scaffolded by a mother or wife or secretary figure their entire life. Einstein’s scientific wife, steve job’s wife, Elon musk’s first wife and now compadre of white collared assistants.