Questions for any Adult adoptees on here

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adoption is whole different narrative today than from years ago. There is no such thing as a closed adoption. All parties will be known, including bio parents, grandparents, siblings, etc. Adoption was always adoptive parent centered ( saviors, rescuers) and never child centered (each child comes with their own identity, no one is being "saved"- women make adoption choices for various reasons, not because of shame or morals), but now it's child centered.

Yes, they need to be told. No, they do become the adoptive family's culture and ethnicity because they look like it or pass, yes they should know everything when age appropriate, and adoptive parents should encourage ancestry and bio family connection if child wants to. The child's identity, birthdate, everything is their own.

DNA has replaced all the cloaked secrets. There's no wondering or guessing anymore. No secrets.

I don’t know where you get any of this information from. Yes, there are still MANY closed domestic infant adoptions. And even when an open adoption is promised to a mother considering relinquishment, there is literally NO legal recourse to that mother if the adopters take her child and then immediately cut off contact, or cut off contact at a later date for whatever reason they want. And some studies show more than half of options that were promised to be open are actually closed by the adopters.

Yes, it is true that commercial DNA can reveal secrets and rcinnvtvfikyes separated by adoption loss, but that doesn’t in any way ameliorate the loss or the betrayal to both parent and child if an open adoption is later closed by the adopters.

You are also VERY wrong that relinquishing mothers no longer make these choices out of shame. Christian maternity homes are more popular than ever in the U.S. and they are almost entirely run by evangelical sects that do indeed very purposefully inflict great shame upon the pregnant girl or woman, with the entire premise of adoption being that the act of such “selfless” love is redeeming, and that by giving away their baby to more worthy parents, they are redeeming their their terrible sins of sex outside of marriage.

The podcast Liberty Lost goes into this kind of pervasive shame based messaging in great detail. The first episode opens with a scene where a relinquishing teen mom is forced into participating in this creepy ceremony where she and the father of the baby have to walk him down the aisle in a public ceremony and place him in the adopters’ arms up at the altar, to great praise from the gathering of their families and others. The entire ritual is framed as redemptive and cleansing. But everything about it is shame based

I am talking about the current general societal paradigm of adoption now vs. the Baby Scoop Era.
Yes, there are legally closed adoptions, but that is no longer something that has to be done. Closed adoptions now are much rarer because adoption is no longer just in the adoptive parents control. Or a court.

The example you gave above is extremely esoteric and culture bound, it's certainly not the norm for today compared to the 50s and 60s. There are religious sects who do creepy things, and what you describe is definitely not common at all, but keeping girls in maternity homes, out of school is actually illegal unless a family can prove she's homeschooled and there is oversight. Young mothers also have rights if they choose to buck this antiquated system, whereas years ago they had no rights. What you are talking about only exists in extreme rarity. Depending on the state, too, as marriage at 16 is still legal in some states, but that doesn't mean it's the norm.

Society has entirely changed sinced earlier generations. No mandated maternity homes, no need to marry, no need to give the child up- and that is societal, not religious. The mother has more rights when she does give the child up, too.
With regard to DNA, there is literally no more issue with biological identity at all. There is actually zero way to keep any part of the members involvement a secret. Yes, I'm sure there are open adoptions that didn't comply, but the main thing is that these children will always know who their biological family is, at some time or another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adoption is whole different narrative today than from years ago. There is no such thing as a closed adoption. All parties will be known, including bio parents, grandparents, siblings, etc. Adoption was always adoptive parent centered ( saviors, rescuers) and never child centered (each child comes with their own identity, no one is being "saved"- women make adoption choices for various reasons, not because of shame or morals), but now it's child centered.

Yes, they need to be told. No, they do become the adoptive family's culture and ethnicity because they look like it or pass, yes they should know everything when age appropriate, and adoptive parents should encourage ancestry and bio family connection if child wants to. The child's identity, birthdate, everything is their own.

DNA has replaced all the cloaked secrets. There's no wondering or guessing anymore. No secrets.

I don’t know where you get any of this information from. Yes, there are still MANY closed domestic infant adoptions. And even when an open adoption is promised to a mother considering relinquishment, there is literally NO legal recourse to that mother if the adopters take her child and then immediately cut off contact, or cut off contact at a later date for whatever reason they want. And some studies show more than half of options that were promised to be open are actually closed by the adopters.

Yes, it is true that commercial DNA can reveal secrets and rcinnvtvfikyes separated by adoption loss, but that doesn’t in any way ameliorate the loss or the betrayal to both parent and child if an open adoption is later closed by the adopters.

You are also VERY wrong that relinquishing mothers no longer make these choices out of shame. Christian maternity homes are more popular than ever in the U.S. and they are almost entirely run by evangelical sects that do indeed very purposefully inflict great shame upon the pregnant girl or woman, with the entire premise of adoption being that the act of such “selfless” love is redeeming, and that by giving away their baby to more worthy parents, they are redeeming their their terrible sins of sex outside of marriage.

The podcast Liberty Lost goes into this kind of pervasive shame based messaging in great detail. The first episode opens with a scene where a relinquishing teen mom is forced into participating in this creepy ceremony where she and the father of the baby have to walk him down the aisle in a public ceremony and place him in the adopters’ arms up at the altar, to great praise from the gathering of their families and others. The entire ritual is framed as redemptive and cleansing. But everything about it is shame based

I am talking about the current general societal paradigm of adoption now vs. the Baby Scoop Era.
Yes, there are legally closed adoptions, but that is no longer something that has to be done. Closed adoptions now are much rarer because adoption is no longer just in the adoptive parents control. Or a court.

The example you gave above is extremely esoteric and culture bound, it's certainly not the norm for today compared to the 50s and 60s. There are religious sects who do creepy things, and what you describe is definitely not common at all, but keeping girls in maternity homes, out of school is actually illegal unless a family can prove she's homeschooled and there is oversight. Young mothers also have rights if they choose to buck this antiquated system, whereas years ago they had no rights. What you are talking about only exists in extreme rarity. Depending on the state, too, as marriage at 16 is still legal in some states, but that doesn't mean it's the norm.

Society has entirely changed sinced earlier generations. No mandated maternity homes, no need to marry, no need to give the child up- and that is societal, not religious. The mother has more rights when she does give the child up, too.
With regard to DNA, there is literally no more issue with biological identity at all. There is actually zero way to keep any part of the members involvement a secret. Yes, I'm sure there are open adoptions that didn't comply, but the main thing is that these children will always know who their biological family is, at some time or another.

The adoption industry is corrupt and while abuses like you mention are not as common as they used to be, there are still abuses.
Birth mothers are a necessary evil to adoption agencies. They are offered the carrot and the stick.
Just look up savings our sisters and you will see

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adoption is whole different narrative today than from years ago. There is no such thing as a closed adoption. All parties will be known, including bio parents, grandparents, siblings, etc. Adoption was always adoptive parent centered ( saviors, rescuers) and never child centered (each child comes with their own identity, no one is being "saved"- women make adoption choices for various reasons, not because of shame or morals), but now it's child centered.

Yes, they need to be told. No, they do become the adoptive family's culture and ethnicity because they look like it or pass, yes they should know everything when age appropriate, and adoptive parents should encourage ancestry and bio family connection if child wants to. The child's identity, birthdate, everything is their own.

DNA has replaced all the cloaked secrets. There's no wondering or guessing anymore. No secrets.

I don’t know where you get any of this information from. Yes, there are still MANY closed domestic infant adoptions. And even when an open adoption is promised to a mother considering relinquishment, there is literally NO legal recourse to that mother if the adopters take her child and then immediately cut off contact, or cut off contact at a later date for whatever reason they want. And some studies show more than half of options that were promised to be open are actually closed by the adopters.

Yes, it is true that commercial DNA can reveal secrets and rcinnvtvfikyes separated by adoption loss, but that doesn’t in any way ameliorate the loss or the betrayal to both parent and child if an open adoption is later closed by the adopters.

You are also VERY wrong that relinquishing mothers no longer make these choices out of shame. Christian maternity homes are more popular than ever in the U.S. and they are almost entirely run by evangelical sects that do indeed very purposefully inflict great shame upon the pregnant girl or woman, with the entire premise of adoption being that the act of such “selfless” love is redeeming, and that by giving away their baby to more worthy parents, they are redeeming their their terrible sins of sex outside of marriage.

The podcast Liberty Lost goes into this kind of pervasive shame based messaging in great detail. The first episode opens with a scene where a relinquishing teen mom is forced into participating in this creepy ceremony where she and the father of the baby have to walk him down the aisle in a public ceremony and place him in the adopters’ arms up at the altar, to great praise from the gathering of their families and others. The entire ritual is framed as redemptive and cleansing. But everything about it is shame based

I am talking about the current general societal paradigm of adoption now vs. the Baby Scoop Era.
Yes, there are legally closed adoptions, but that is no longer something that has to be done. Closed adoptions now are much rarer because adoption is no longer just in the adoptive parents control. Or a court.

The example you gave above is extremely esoteric and culture bound, it's certainly not the norm for today compared to the 50s and 60s. There are religious sects who do creepy things, and what you describe is definitely not common at all, but keeping girls in maternity homes, out of school is actually illegal unless a family can prove she's homeschooled and there is oversight. Young mothers also have rights if they choose to buck this antiquated system, whereas years ago they had no rights. What you are talking about only exists in extreme rarity. Depending on the state, too, as marriage at 16 is still legal in some states, but that doesn't mean it's the norm.

Society has entirely changed sinced earlier generations. No mandated maternity homes, no need to marry, no need to give the child up- and that is societal, not religious. The mother has more rights when she does give the child up, too.
With regard to DNA, there is literally no more issue with biological identity at all. There is actually zero way to keep any part of the members involvement a secret. Yes, I'm sure there are open adoptions that didn't comply, but the main thing is that these children will always know who their biological family is, at some time or another.

The adoption industry is corrupt and while abuses like you mention are not as common as they used to be, there are still abuses.
Birth mothers are a necessary evil to adoption agencies. They are offered the carrot and the stick.
Just look up savings our sisters and you will see

I don't need to see. I am an adoptee and am very involved in many adoptee organizations. The issue now are religious organizations that prey on women. The big difference is that women can always choose, there's no social stigma anymore. If people are coerced into something that's an issue in itself, but the adoption process and paradigm has changed dramatically over 60 years. There's no secrets anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adoption is whole different narrative today than from years ago. There is no such thing as a closed adoption. All parties will be known, including bio parents, grandparents, siblings, etc. Adoption was always adoptive parent centered ( saviors, rescuers) and never child centered (each child comes with their own identity, no one is being "saved"- women make adoption choices for various reasons, not because of shame or morals), but now it's child centered.

Yes, they need to be told. No, they do become the adoptive family's culture and ethnicity because they look like it or pass, yes they should know everything when age appropriate, and adoptive parents should encourage ancestry and bio family connection if child wants to. The child's identity, birthdate, everything is their own.

DNA has replaced all the cloaked secrets. There's no wondering or guessing anymore. No secrets.

I don’t know where you get any of this information from. Yes, there are still MANY closed domestic infant adoptions. And even when an open adoption is promised to a mother considering relinquishment, there is literally NO legal recourse to that mother if the adopters take her child and then immediately cut off contact, or cut off contact at a later date for whatever reason they want. And some studies show more than half of options that were promised to be open are actually closed by the adopters.

Yes, it is true that commercial DNA can reveal secrets and rcinnvtvfikyes separated by adoption loss, but that doesn’t in any way ameliorate the loss or the betrayal to both parent and child if an open adoption is later closed by the adopters.

You are also VERY wrong that relinquishing mothers no longer make these choices out of shame. Christian maternity homes are more popular than ever in the U.S. and they are almost entirely run by evangelical sects that do indeed very purposefully inflict great shame upon the pregnant girl or woman, with the entire premise of adoption being that the act of such “selfless” love is redeeming, and that by giving away their baby to more worthy parents, they are redeeming their their terrible sins of sex outside of marriage.

The podcast Liberty Lost goes into this kind of pervasive shame based messaging in great detail. The first episode opens with a scene where a relinquishing teen mom is forced into participating in this creepy ceremony where she and the father of the baby have to walk him down the aisle in a public ceremony and place him in the adopters’ arms up at the altar, to great praise from the gathering of their families and others. The entire ritual is framed as redemptive and cleansing. But everything about it is shame based

What you are referring to is religious abuse, not adoption abuse. The two can certainly overlap, but it certainly does not represent adoption or pregnancy today. Two different issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adoption is whole different narrative today than from years ago. There is no such thing as a closed adoption. All parties will be known, including bio parents, grandparents, siblings, etc. Adoption was always adoptive parent centered ( saviors, rescuers) and never child centered (each child comes with their own identity, no one is being "saved"- women make adoption choices for various reasons, not because of shame or morals), but now it's child centered.

Yes, they need to be told. No, they do become the adoptive family's culture and ethnicity because they look like it or pass, yes they should know everything when age appropriate, and adoptive parents should encourage ancestry and bio family connection if child wants to. The child's identity, birthdate, everything is their own.

DNA has replaced all the cloaked secrets. There's no wondering or guessing anymore. No secrets.

I don’t know where you get any of this information from. Yes, there are still MANY closed domestic infant adoptions. And even when an open adoption is promised to a mother considering relinquishment, there is literally NO legal recourse to that mother if the adopters take her child and then immediately cut off contact, or cut off contact at a later date for whatever reason they want. And some studies show more than half of options that were promised to be open are actually closed by the adopters.

Yes, it is true that commercial DNA can reveal secrets and rcinnvtvfikyes separated by adoption loss, but that doesn’t in any way ameliorate the loss or the betrayal to both parent and child if an open adoption is later closed by the adopters.

You are also VERY wrong that relinquishing mothers no longer make these choices out of shame. Christian maternity homes are more popular than ever in the U.S. and they are almost entirely run by evangelical sects that do indeed very purposefully inflict great shame upon the pregnant girl or woman, with the entire premise of adoption being that the act of such “selfless” love is redeeming, and that by giving away their baby to more worthy parents, they are redeeming their their terrible sins of sex outside of marriage.

The podcast Liberty Lost goes into this kind of pervasive shame based messaging in great detail. The first episode opens with a scene where a relinquishing teen mom is forced into participating in this creepy ceremony where she and the father of the baby have to walk him down the aisle in a public ceremony and place him in the adopters’ arms up at the altar, to great praise from the gathering of their families and others. The entire ritual is framed as redemptive and cleansing. But everything about it is shame based

I am talking about the current general societal paradigm of adoption now vs. the Baby Scoop Era.
Yes, there are legally closed adoptions, but that is no longer something that has to be done. Closed adoptions now are much rarer because adoption is no longer just in the adoptive parents control. Or a court.

The example you gave above is extremely esoteric and culture bound, it's certainly not the norm for today compared to the 50s and 60s. There are religious sects who do creepy things, and what you describe is definitely not common at all, but keeping girls in maternity homes, out of school is actually illegal unless a family can prove she's homeschooled and there is oversight. Young mothers also have rights if they choose to buck this antiquated system, whereas years ago they had no rights. What you are talking about only exists in extreme rarity. Depending on the state, too, as marriage at 16 is still legal in some states, but that doesn't mean it's the norm.

Society has entirely changed sinced earlier generations. No mandated maternity homes, no need to marry, no need to give the child up- and that is societal, not religious. The mother has more rights when she does give the child up, too.
With regard to DNA, there is literally no more issue with biological identity at all. There is actually zero way to keep any part of the members involvement a secret. Yes, I'm sure there are open adoptions that didn't comply, but the main thing is that these children will always know who their biological family is, at some time or another.

The adoption industry is corrupt and while abuses like you mention are not as common as they used to be, there are still abuses.
Birth mothers are a necessary evil to adoption agencies. They are offered the carrot and the stick.
Just look up savings our sisters and you will see

I don't need to see. I am an adoptee and am very involved in many adoptee organizations. The issue now are religious organizations that prey on women. The big difference is that women can always choose, there's no social stigma anymore. If people are coerced into something that's an issue in itself, but the adoption process and paradigm has changed dramatically over 60 years. There's no secrets anymore.

Well, yes! WOMEN can always choose but when the "woman" is an 18 year old without any financial resources from a low-income family and they are psychologically coerced by adoptive organizations and shady adoption lawyers to give up their children with promises of a "wonderful life with a wonderful family" then, yes then that is a coercive issue. Dangle money along with that (despite it being illegal - it is done) and you have a child-for-sale situation.

To make it worse, couch it under the "private" adoption and there is virtually no oversight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adoption is whole different narrative today than from years ago. There is no such thing as a closed adoption. All parties will be known, including bio parents, grandparents, siblings, etc. Adoption was always adoptive parent centered ( saviors, rescuers) and never child centered (each child comes with their own identity, no one is being "saved"- women make adoption choices for various reasons, not because of shame or morals), but now it's child centered.

Yes, they need to be told. No, they do become the adoptive family's culture and ethnicity because they look like it or pass, yes they should know everything when age appropriate, and adoptive parents should encourage ancestry and bio family connection if child wants to. The child's identity, birthdate, everything is their own.

DNA has replaced all the cloaked secrets. There's no wondering or guessing anymore. No secrets.

I don’t know where you get any of this information from. Yes, there are still MANY closed domestic infant adoptions. And even when an open adoption is promised to a mother considering relinquishment, there is literally NO legal recourse to that mother if the adopters take her child and then immediately cut off contact, or cut off contact at a later date for whatever reason they want. And some studies show more than half of options that were promised to be open are actually closed by the adopters.

Yes, it is true that commercial DNA can reveal secrets and rcinnvtvfikyes separated by adoption loss, but that doesn’t in any way ameliorate the loss or the betrayal to both parent and child if an open adoption is later closed by the adopters.

You are also VERY wrong that relinquishing mothers no longer make these choices out of shame. Christian maternity homes are more popular than ever in the U.S. and they are almost entirely run by evangelical sects that do indeed very purposefully inflict great shame upon the pregnant girl or woman, with the entire premise of adoption being that the act of such “selfless” love is redeeming, and that by giving away their baby to more worthy parents, they are redeeming their their terrible sins of sex outside of marriage.

The podcast Liberty Lost goes into this kind of pervasive shame based messaging in great detail. The first episode opens with a scene where a relinquishing teen mom is forced into participating in this creepy ceremony where she and the father of the baby have to walk him down the aisle in a public ceremony and place him in the adopters’ arms up at the altar, to great praise from the gathering of their families and others. The entire ritual is framed as redemptive and cleansing. But everything about it is shame based

I am talking about the current general societal paradigm of adoption now vs. the Baby Scoop Era.
Yes, there are legally closed adoptions, but that is no longer something that has to be done. Closed adoptions now are much rarer because adoption is no longer just in the adoptive parents control. Or a court.

The example you gave above is extremely esoteric and culture bound, it's certainly not the norm for today compared to the 50s and 60s. There are religious sects who do creepy things, and what you describe is definitely not common at all, but keeping girls in maternity homes, out of school is actually illegal unless a family can prove she's homeschooled and there is oversight. Young mothers also have rights if they choose to buck this antiquated system, whereas years ago they had no rights. What you are talking about only exists in extreme rarity. Depending on the state, too, as marriage at 16 is still legal in some states, but that doesn't mean it's the norm.

Society has entirely changed sinced earlier generations. No mandated maternity homes, no need to marry, no need to give the child up- and that is societal, not religious. The mother has more rights when she does give the child up, too.
With regard to DNA, there is literally no more issue with biological identity at all. There is actually zero way to keep any part of the members involvement a secret. Yes, I'm sure there are open adoptions that didn't comply, but the main thing is that these children will always know who their biological family is, at some time or another.

The adoption industry is corrupt and while abuses like you mention are not as common as they used to be, there are still abuses.
Birth mothers are a necessary evil to adoption agencies. They are offered the carrot and the stick.
Just look up savings our sisters and you will see

I don't need to see. I am an adoptee and am very involved in many adoptee organizations. The issue now are religious organizations that prey on women. The big difference is that women can always choose, there's no social stigma anymore. If people are coerced into something that's an issue in itself, but the adoption process and paradigm has changed dramatically over 60 years. There's no secrets anymore.

Well, yes! WOMEN can always choose but when the "woman" is an 18 year old without any financial resources from a low-income family and they are psychologically coerced by adoptive organizations and shady adoption lawyers to give up their children with promises of a "wonderful life with a wonderful family" then, yes then that is a coercive issue. Dangle money along with that (despite it being illegal - it is done) and you have a child-for-sale situation.

To make it worse, couch it under the "private" adoption and there is virtually no oversight.

Yep, but again you are referring to religious organizations not societal. The problem for all women young, or not, is the resource angle. This is a whole different story, but it still vastly differs from even 40 years ago where even having and keeping the baby was impossible. There's ways to seek assistance, the woman just needs to know what and how. The baby daddy is now held to account, regardless of age -child support,everything. If he cannot, he will go through the law.
Regarding private adoptions, which still are happening, there are definitive laws around those. It's not gray market or black market as a general rule, although I'm sure it happens, especially with overseas adoption. My birth certificate is not even real, and I will never know my actual birthday. I was literally sold to the highest bidder. Laws have tightened up.
But, exploitation happens in all arenas regarding family building- fertility clinics, sperm and egg donation, surrogacy for sure, and adoption. The difference is woman can still choose, they can abort ( depending where they live now) they can be unwed, they can still work, and if they do choose adoption, there's no more anonymity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adoption is whole different narrative today than from years ago. There is no such thing as a closed adoption. All parties will be known, including bio parents, grandparents, siblings, etc. Adoption was always adoptive parent centered ( saviors, rescuers) and never child centered (each child comes with their own identity, no one is being "saved"- women make adoption choices for various reasons, not because of shame or morals), but now it's child centered.

Yes, they need to be told. No, they do become the adoptive family's culture and ethnicity because they look like it or pass, yes they should know everything when age appropriate, and adoptive parents should encourage ancestry and bio family connection if child wants to. The child's identity, birthdate, everything is their own.

DNA has replaced all the cloaked secrets. There's no wondering or guessing anymore. No secrets.

I don’t know where you get any of this information from. Yes, there are still MANY closed domestic infant adoptions. And even when an open adoption is promised to a mother considering relinquishment, there is literally NO legal recourse to that mother if the adopters take her child and then immediately cut off contact, or cut off contact at a later date for whatever reason they want. And some studies show more than half of options that were promised to be open are actually closed by the adopters.

Yes, it is true that commercial DNA can reveal secrets and rcinnvtvfikyes separated by adoption loss, but that doesn’t in any way ameliorate the loss or the betrayal to both parent and child if an open adoption is later closed by the adopters.

You are also VERY wrong that relinquishing mothers no longer make these choices out of shame. Christian maternity homes are more popular than ever in the U.S. and they are almost entirely run by evangelical sects that do indeed very purposefully inflict great shame upon the pregnant girl or woman, with the entire premise of adoption being that the act of such “selfless” love is redeeming, and that by giving away their baby to more worthy parents, they are redeeming their their terrible sins of sex outside of marriage.

The podcast Liberty Lost goes into this kind of pervasive shame based messaging in great detail. The first episode opens with a scene where a relinquishing teen mom is forced into participating in this creepy ceremony where she and the father of the baby have to walk him down the aisle in a public ceremony and place him in the adopters’ arms up at the altar, to great praise from the gathering of their families and others. The entire ritual is framed as redemptive and cleansing. But everything about it is shame based

I am talking about the current general societal paradigm of adoption now vs. the Baby Scoop Era.
Yes, there are legally closed adoptions, but that is no longer something that has to be done. Closed adoptions now are much rarer because adoption is no longer just in the adoptive parents control. Or a court.

The example you gave above is extremely esoteric and culture bound, it's certainly not the norm for today compared to the 50s and 60s. There are religious sects who do creepy things, and what you describe is definitely not common at all, but keeping girls in maternity homes, out of school is actually illegal unless a family can prove she's homeschooled and there is oversight. Young mothers also have rights if they choose to buck this antiquated system, whereas years ago they had no rights. What you are talking about only exists in extreme rarity. Depending on the state, too, as marriage at 16 is still legal in some states, but that doesn't mean it's the norm.

Society has entirely changed sinced earlier generations. No mandated maternity homes, no need to marry, no need to give the child up- and that is societal, not religious. The mother has more rights when she does give the child up, too.
With regard to DNA, there is literally no more issue with biological identity at all. There is actually zero way to keep any part of the members involvement a secret. Yes, I'm sure there are open adoptions that didn't comply, but the main thing is that these children will always know who their biological family is, at some time or another.

The adoption industry is corrupt and while abuses like you mention are not as common as they used to be, there are still abuses.
Birth mothers are a necessary evil to adoption agencies. They are offered the carrot and the stick.
Just look up savings our sisters and you will see

I don't need to see. I am an adoptee and am very involved in many adoptee organizations. The issue now are religious organizations that prey on women. The big difference is that women can always choose, there's no social stigma anymore. If people are coerced into something that's an issue in itself, but the adoption process and paradigm has changed dramatically over 60 years. There's no secrets anymore.

Well, yes! WOMEN can always choose but when the "woman" is an 18 year old without any financial resources from a low-income family and they are psychologically coerced by adoptive organizations and shady adoption lawyers to give up their children with promises of a "wonderful life with a wonderful family" then, yes then that is a coercive issue. Dangle money along with that (despite it being illegal - it is done) and you have a child-for-sale situation.

To make it worse, couch it under the "private" adoption and there is virtually no oversight.

Yep, but again you are referring to religious organizations not societal. The problem for all women young, or not, is the resource angle. This is a whole different story, but it still vastly differs from even 40 years ago where even having and keeping the baby was impossible. There's ways to seek assistance, the woman just needs to know what and how. The baby daddy is now held to account, regardless of age -child support,everything. If he cannot, he will go through the law.
Regarding private adoptions, which still are happening, there are definitive laws around those. It's not gray market or black market as a general rule, although I'm sure it happens, especially with overseas adoption. My birth certificate is not even real, and I will never know my actual birthday. I was literally sold to the highest bidder. Laws have tightened up.
But, exploitation happens in all arenas regarding family building- fertility clinics, sperm and egg donation, surrogacy for sure, and adoption. The difference is woman can still choose, they can abort ( depending where they live now) they can be unwed, they can still work, and if they do choose adoption, there's no more anonymity.

You obviously have a pro-adoption narrative you are pushing because nowhere in that post is there a mention of religious organizations.

I am referring to the fact that targeting low-income teens and young women to give up their children to those with more income and money to pay to acquire those children, should be a crime that is prosecuted along the same lines as human/sex trafficking. Period.

Forty years ago it was not impossible for women to keep their babies so I don't know where you are getting that nonsense from. I have several friends who chose to keep their babies and had social and family support. It was tough but there wasn't much stigma and family/friends all rallied to help out. Those kids are now in their 40s and seem to have been fine raised by single mothers and are living life well.

I also know one girl from school who went to a "maternity home" and gave her child up for adoption. She had a much more difficult time and to this day has an emptiness in her life and IMO has never psychologically recovered from that.

Yes, there is "no more anonymity" in adoption which is even worse. Now those girls/women are being told they can have open adoptions but are RARELY told that the adoptive family can rescind that at any time, for no reason. So a mother spends a year or two maybe getting to know her child via the open process and then on a whim and perhaps with no reason, the adoptive family decides she can't see the child any more.

I know of a case of that, too. The rather arrogant adoptive couple didn't like a couple of minor comments made by the bio mom so they decided it was best to cut her out. They were looking for an excuse. I hope they can explain that to their kid when they get old enough to ask.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adoption is whole different narrative today than from years ago. There is no such thing as a closed adoption. All parties will be known, including bio parents, grandparents, siblings, etc. Adoption was always adoptive parent centered ( saviors, rescuers) and never child centered (each child comes with their own identity, no one is being "saved"- women make adoption choices for various reasons, not because of shame or morals), but now it's child centered.

Yes, they need to be told. No, they do become the adoptive family's culture and ethnicity because they look like it or pass, yes they should know everything when age appropriate, and adoptive parents should encourage ancestry and bio family connection if child wants to. The child's identity, birthdate, everything is their own.

DNA has replaced all the cloaked secrets. There's no wondering or guessing anymore. No secrets.

I don’t know where you get any of this information from. Yes, there are still MANY closed domestic infant adoptions. And even when an open adoption is promised to a mother considering relinquishment, there is literally NO legal recourse to that mother if the adopters take her child and then immediately cut off contact, or cut off contact at a later date for whatever reason they want. And some studies show more than half of options that were promised to be open are actually closed by the adopters.

Yes, it is true that commercial DNA can reveal secrets and rcinnvtvfikyes separated by adoption loss, but that doesn’t in any way ameliorate the loss or the betrayal to both parent and child if an open adoption is later closed by the adopters.

You are also VERY wrong that relinquishing mothers no longer make these choices out of shame. Christian maternity homes are more popular than ever in the U.S. and they are almost entirely run by evangelical sects that do indeed very purposefully inflict great shame upon the pregnant girl or woman, with the entire premise of adoption being that the act of such “selfless” love is redeeming, and that by giving away their baby to more worthy parents, they are redeeming their their terrible sins of sex outside of marriage.

The podcast Liberty Lost goes into this kind of pervasive shame based messaging in great detail. The first episode opens with a scene where a relinquishing teen mom is forced into participating in this creepy ceremony where she and the father of the baby have to walk him down the aisle in a public ceremony and place him in the adopters’ arms up at the altar, to great praise from the gathering of their families and others. The entire ritual is framed as redemptive and cleansing. But everything about it is shame based

I am talking about the current general societal paradigm of adoption now vs. the Baby Scoop Era.
Yes, there are legally closed adoptions, but that is no longer something that has to be done. Closed adoptions now are much rarer because adoption is no longer just in the adoptive parents control. Or a court.

The example you gave above is extremely esoteric and culture bound, it's certainly not the norm for today compared to the 50s and 60s. There are religious sects who do creepy things, and what you describe is definitely not common at all, but keeping girls in maternity homes, out of school is actually illegal unless a family can prove she's homeschooled and there is oversight. Young mothers also have rights if they choose to buck this antiquated system, whereas years ago they had no rights. What you are talking about only exists in extreme rarity. Depending on the state, too, as marriage at 16 is still legal in some states, but that doesn't mean it's the norm.

Society has entirely changed sinced earlier generations. No mandated maternity homes, no need to marry, no need to give the child up- and that is societal, not religious. The mother has more rights when she does give the child up, too.
With regard to DNA, there is literally no more issue with biological identity at all. There is actually zero way to keep any part of the members involvement a secret. Yes, I'm sure there are open adoptions that didn't comply, but the main thing is that these children will always know who their biological family is, at some time or another.

The adoption industry is corrupt and while abuses like you mention are not as common as they used to be, there are still abuses.
Birth mothers are a necessary evil to adoption agencies. They are offered the carrot and the stick.
Just look up savings our sisters and you will see

I don't need to see. I am an adoptee and am very involved in many adoptee organizations. The issue now are religious organizations that prey on women. The big difference is that women can always choose, there's no social stigma anymore. If people are coerced into something that's an issue in itself, but the adoption process and paradigm has changed dramatically over 60 years. There's no secrets anymore.

Well, yes! WOMEN can always choose but when the "woman" is an 18 year old without any financial resources from a low-income family and they are psychologically coerced by adoptive organizations and shady adoption lawyers to give up their children with promises of a "wonderful life with a wonderful family" then, yes then that is a coercive issue. Dangle money along with that (despite it being illegal - it is done) and you have a child-for-sale situation.

To make it worse, couch it under the "private" adoption and there is virtually no oversight.

Yep, but again you are referring to religious organizations not societal. The problem for all women young, or not, is the resource angle. This is a whole different story, but it still vastly differs from even 40 years ago where even having and keeping the baby was impossible. There's ways to seek assistance, the woman just needs to know what and how. The baby daddy is now held to account, regardless of age -child support,everything. If he cannot, he will go through the law.
Regarding private adoptions, which still are happening, there are definitive laws around those. It's not gray market or black market as a general rule, although I'm sure it happens, especially with overseas adoption. My birth certificate is not even real, and I will never know my actual birthday. I was literally sold to the highest bidder. Laws have tightened up.
But, exploitation happens in all arenas regarding family building- fertility clinics, sperm and egg donation, surrogacy for sure, and adoption. The difference is woman can still choose, they can abort ( depending where they live now) they can be unwed, they can still work, and if they do choose adoption, there's no more anonymity.

You obviously have a pro-adoption narrative you are pushing because nowhere in that post is there a mention of religious organizations.

I am referring to the fact that targeting low-income teens and young women to give up their children to those with more income and money to pay to acquire those children, should be a crime that is prosecuted along the same lines as human/sex trafficking. Period.

Forty years ago it was not impossible for women to keep their babies so I don't know where you are getting that nonsense from. I have several friends who chose to keep their babies and had social and family support. It was tough but there wasn't much stigma and family/friends all rallied to help out. Those kids are now in their 40s and seem to have been fine raised by single mothers and are living life well.

I also know one girl from school who went to a "maternity home" and gave her child up for adoption. She had a much more difficult time and to this day has an emptiness in her life and IMO has never psychologically recovered from that.

Yes, there is "no more anonymity" in adoption which is even worse. Now those girls/women are being told they can have open adoptions but are RARELY told that the adoptive family can rescind that at any time, for no reason. So a mother spends a year or two maybe getting to know her child via the open process and then on a whim and perhaps with no reason, the adoptive family decides she can't see the child any more.

I know of a case of that, too. The rather arrogant adoptive couple didn't like a couple of minor comments made by the bio mom so they decided it was best to cut her out. They were looking for an excuse. I hope they can explain that to their kid when they get old enough to ask.

Predatory concern over unwed mothers are generally religious- that is well known. Anti abortion and full steam ahead.
All single parents and low income parents anywhere have huge obstacles with regard to resources. It isn't only about adoption, and, yes, still tough but there are better systems and even a teen can go to school, stay with her family, or evej have the father involved.

Open adoption issues can be ameliorated much better with legal machinations, much like a prenup. Moms need more education. Much much different than decades ago. Your personal anecdotal incidents are not necessarily generalized to the totality of what is actually going on. The descriptions you gave above are all religious based, especially in your first post. That is a not about adoption it's about ridiculous, culty BS.

I am not pro or against adoption, i am for women's rights, and the rights of born children- there are actually women who do want to give their kid up, or abort the fetus. I say that knowing full well that I would have been aborted if that was legal or available at the time.
With regard to haves and have nots and the exploitation of people, that extends to all of us and many situations, adoption isn't in it's own category.

Lastly, there are laws now where there were not before, there are legal maneuvers that preclude alienation, there is DNA to prevent anonymity. Women have rights, whether they use them or not is a completely different topic.

[Anonymous]

^ Yep, you are clearly a pro-adoption cheerleader and probably work in the industry.

And an industry it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ Yep, you are clearly a pro-adoption cheerleader and probably work in the industry.

And an industry it is.

You know, if you were angry about vaccines, and I showed you viable data that goes against your belief, you would accuse me of working for Big Pharma. Lol. Not everyone is profiting from facts. Your argument is immature and naive. Come up with a fact, not an ad hominem attack, it's not effective and it sours your premise. If you have a strong premise, you would not have to resort to childish barbs.
So, no, again. I am a history professor, an adoptee who was literally adopted on the black market decades ago, and the "industry" you speak of doesn't really exist now in the way you think- it's not a defined concept the way it was in the 50s and 60s, it's an ad hoc organic opportunistic venture which can be ethical and oftentimes not with NONE of the same variables involved. Sociology has changed everything about sex , reproduction, women's rights, economics, societal norms, and issues surrounding identity. And, sorry, we would all hope that mothers would and could keep their kids if they want, or abort if they choose. However, there are still mothers and fathers ( they were not even considered years ago) who do want to give up their babies, if they haven't aborted. It's not even reasonable to assume otherwise. You can improve the system but it's never going away. There will always be unwanted babies, as sad as it is.

And with regard to all your esoteric examples of coercion, etc., these are outside variables that do somehow intersect the entire adoption paradigm, but they don't define it. There will always be bad actors and bad religion and culture, but it does not apply to everyone, or hardly anyone. Laws and policies have changed what is supposed to happen, and we didn't have those before.

You seem angry about your own experience, whether you are an adoptee or birth parent. Try to climb out of your own circumstance in order to continue to improve the future of babies, because your personal experience doesn't not generalize in this regard. I 've done that, but I suspect I've had much more time to reflect. Best of luck.